[AAR] Ken Ozura on Amy Gate

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Larkvi
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[AAR] Ken Ozura on Amy Gate

Post by Larkvi »

[AAR] Ken Ozura on Amy Gate
Returning with the travel fleet from Noobs Night in the Hole, we heard reports that Ken Ozura was in Amy. He had been harassing the gate all day, to good effect, with 13 Unista kills for 1 loss. When the travel fleet arrived, several Unistas were already on the gate, but no one was formally FC. Nienke Solette had no mic, and suggested I take over as FC, my first time formally doing so. First, we had an HSC standing fleet with a ninja'd boss, so Nienke stood up a new standing fleet and I had everyone move themselves over to it. Manda, who was boss of the other fleet, came in confused and tried to recruit back to the unadvertised fleet, but we clarified which fleet was active and he stood down that fleet and joined us. Unistas already on the gate were in a kitchen sink doctrine and understandably frustrated that they had not caught him The Cynabal was faster than anything we could send after it, and he was very good with keeping range, setting up lots of tacticals, and warping off when we were about to get a warp-in. I asked for kitchen sink armor, and we discussed many different options for tackle while playing cat-and-mouse.

Though I had taken over as FC, I didn't really feel I had a mandate, as the response was largely self-organized and no clear tactic suggested itself other than what they were already doing. Since the structure bash fleet was standing up, I was primarily concerned with keeping the gate safe for Unistas warping in to join us, but the fleet members were understandably out for a kill. Since the structure bash fleet was already forming, we got permission from the FC to be out until 22:40, by which time we would be required inside.

After several attempts to run the WT down with a fast frigate (on an OOC character) provided unsatisfactory warp-ins or prompted him to warp off, we caught him on a tactical that we had and I had everyone align in space and prepare to warp in. While we were in warp, he warped off, leaving the fleet pretty strung out. I asked the fleet to jump back into Amy and form on the gate, hoping that he might get bored and come investigate (we had eyes on the Juf side), but all we got was his OOC alt sitting on the gate right next to us. We jumped back in, back out, then at Nineke's suggestion, sent only a vanguard through, which solicited a better response; Nineke, having reshipped, joined them and announced tackle. I ordered the fleet to jump through and warp on to Nienke, but had myself landed too close to warp in, and had to burn away to 150km(given the terrible speed of a BLAP Vexor, I never made it into the fight). Nineke lost his tackle frigate, but after other Unistas got tackle, and he went down, with only four minutes until we had to get to the formup. GF in system, and then I stood down the fleet .

QRF Members
Spoiler
SPOILER WARNING!
Ghad Makanen - ???
Gilmir - Atron
Gyrgon - Ahimmu
Haruka Otichoda - Condor (OOC)
Nienke Solette - Atron
Larkvi - Vexor
Marv Edwoods - Vexor
LostEagle1 - Legion
Manda Doomslayer - Corax
Rikali Laru - Phobos
Sanata Ritic- Ferox
Silver FoxV - Incursus
others not on the killmail--please contact me and I will add you here
\
Kills and Losses

(22:36) Jufitte
Cynabal +317.55m https://zkillboard.com/kill/81117119/

(20:21:26) Cistuvaert
Atron -7.42m https://zkillboard.com/kill/81117108/

Stats
ISK Destroyed: 249,135,587.53
ISK Lost: 5,872,567.96 (not including losses from earlier in the day before I was on-grid)
ISK Delta: 243,263,019.57
Efficiency: 98% (corrected)

Lessons learned:
Whether or not I felt like I had a mandate at first, I should have acted as if I did and more clearly taken command of the fleet. There was no other FC and no one was contesting the role; they were just understandably frustrated by the long game of trying to catch him, and we did not have a particularly organized strategy even after formally forming as a QRF.
I don't know the capabilities of so many ships that I rarely knew what the non-BLAP ships other Unistas brought were capable of.
When fighting enemies with a combination of good speed and good alpha versus tackle frigates, the BLAP Vexor seems at a significant disadvantage.
Unistas on QRFs don't like garrison duty--they want kills. The kill in this case was possible and I just didn't see it at first. I should have asked for several Unistas to reship into speed-maximized tackle much earlier.
Showing too much strenght on the gate made the target wary and the fight boring. Figure out where to put the rest of the fleet that is useful and not obvious in the future.
(possibly more later, I need to catch a bus)
Last edited by Larkvi on 2020.01.20 11:42, edited 4 times in total.
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Gyrgon
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Re: [AAR] Ken Ozura on Amy Gate

Post by Gyrgon »

Good job on the first FC gig, in admittedly less than ideal circumstances :)

As Larkvi already pointed out, communication and organization was a bit of a mess with this one, as it sometimes happens in E-UNI.

I joined the standing fleet / QRF only shortly before the NNitH crew and was flying an Ashimmu. FYI, blood raider ships (Cruor, Ashimmu, Bhaalgorn) are bonused with web range and neuting. But as especially the pirate faction ships can have some unexpected boni, I'd suggest the FC ask about certain capabilities if they aren't sure, either about a specific ship or about roles, e.g. "I am not familiar with ship x, what can you do?" or "Do I have any bonused ewar / tackle / etc ships?"

Anyway, something that probably got lost in the shuffle, not least because I am a bit hesitant to interrupt others on comms and I probably should have been clearer about, was that I had a scanner alt on grid at a perch in Jufvitte, with combat probes already out and out of d-scan range. There was no point to use the probes while the WT was going > 3km/s, so I couldn't really use them while the target was warping around or getting chased by fast frigates and had to wait for it to turn off the MWD. I tried aligning to the WT with my Ashimmu a few times, ready to be warped to it by my alt, only to be ordered back to the gate to jump back and forth a few times. I also asked for other tackle ships to join me in the squad my alt could warp, but with the confusing fleet situation, DD ships etc made their in there as well.

In the end, I was about 200km from the gate from an earlier attempt to catch the WT at a tactical, when Nienke finally caught up to the WT, and was the first to take over tackle from Nienke with 2x 20km Webs and a long point.

My personal lessons from this QRF are:
1. Get the FC's attention and explain clearly if you have an unused tactical asset or good idea, IF the fleet is not pursuing a clear strategy and looking for an idea or any edge it can get. The hardest part for me is to figure out when input is valuable and when it's disrupting :/
2. Make a TON more personal tacticals on the gates around HSC, especially at ranges over 200 km and covering more than the 6 cardinal directions. I have since seen an impressive example of what a tactical grid around an object can look like and I'll try to emulate that.

P.S. just noticed, but you might want to double check the ISK efficiancy, it seems a tad low.
Larkvi wrote:Stats
ISK Destroyed: 249,135,587.53
ISK Lost: 5,872,567.96 (not including losses from earlier in the day before I was on-grid)
ISK Delta: 243,263,019.57
Efficiency: 4,142%
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Tal Tracyn
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Re: [AAR] Ken Ozura on Amy Gate

Post by Tal Tracyn »

No Fc's online..step up and give it a go.
What is the worst that could happen ?
Good job bud.
And experience comes with time and just going and doing it.
When i FC i try and explain whats happening so the newer chaps can get a handle on the situtaion and understand whats going on and what to do so even joining fleets you can learn a lot about FC'ing.
And i became an FC because HSC only had 1 or 2 so i made the choice to step up and take command.
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Re: [AAR] Ken Ozura on Amy Gate

Post by Nienke Solette »

Everyone, good job yesterday at the QRF! Gyrgon and Larkvi: you both identified positive and learning aspects really well, compliments for that!

Yeah, the way Tal described it is the way I became an FC too. Since Larkvi already has been 2IC / 3IC before and I had a no-mic policy I thought it was his time to shine and pushed him a bit to step up as FC. The situation the fleet was in, was far from ideal. The main part of the fleet just came back from NNitH and some of them were already tired from it. Others have had a day of annoying WT behaviour at the JUF-AMY gate (the same slippery-ness as we had during the QRF) and morale was split between frustration, wanting to take the Cynabal down and just not wanting to put in the effort because of the structure bash later.

One of the concerns thrown up over comms was people coming into Amygnon for the form-up. Personally, I thought this was not that big of a problem, because when people land on a gate at 0 jumping through a gate is not the problem. Getting away from the gate after jumping might be a problem if War Target(s) follow. That's why I suggested to Larkvi to stay at the Jufvitte gate in Amygnon so that he could at least guarantee his goal for the last jump.

Given the circumstances, I"m actually really surprised that 1) I got scram on the Cynabal and 2) the fleet was able to keep the point on it and take it down. Especially given the fact that most of the fleet was still in the relatively slow Vexors... I'm happy to suicide-mission my tackle ship to create content though!

Larkvi: you might wanna use this tool for future AARs: https://laserbeam3.github.io/EveRoamReport/. I need to use incognito mode though, I think some of my plugins blocks proper functionality. Especially the ISK calculation is made really easy. Feel free to convo me if you want more explanation about the tool. ^^
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Re: [AAR] Ken Ozura on Amy Gate

Post by Larkvi »

I admit that I was also very tired, and had been looking forward to a twenty-minute nap before the fleet, but I am glad we got him. I will copy the chat log next time and use the tool. I think Gyrgon's point re: I should have asked more about our fleet composition and other should feel more free to chime in with "FC, if I may..." and raise points of interest are both very on-point.
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Re: [AAR] Ken Ozura on Amy Gate

Post by Gyrgon »

Nienke Solette wrote: One of the concerns thrown up over comms was people coming into Amygnon for the form-up. Personally, I thought this was not that big of a problem, because when people land on a gate at 0 jumping through a gate is not the problem. Getting away from the gate after jumping might be a problem if War Target(s) follow. That's why I suggested to Larkvi to stay at the Jufvitte gate in Amygnon so that he could at least guarantee his goal for the last jump.
This concern was actually raised by me, as I saw on zkill that someone had lost a travelceptor and very expensive pod on the amy gate in juf just minutes prior. And I knew them to not be a local to HSC, so they must have been coming in for the structure bash. In general, I absolutely agree with your point about which site of the gate to is the dangerous one. I just didn't want to risk anyone from other campuses who were not aware of the WT to die because they felt home free once they got out of low sec or something like that. But it goes back to one of my original points, just putting the idea out there without proper explanation didn't really serve anyone.

Nienke Solette wrote: Given the circumstances, I"m actually really surprised that 1) I got scram on the Cynabal and 2) the fleet was able to keep the point on it and take it down.
The power of Blood Raider ships! Having 2x 20km webs coupled with a long point and some nasty neuting power is really good at catching up to fast ships and locking them down. Overheated you can start applying tackle at ~26km range, which I did. The main difficulty is getting the initial tackle and warp in on a ship more than 2x as fast, which you provided :) But you need 2x webs if you don't have a scram, as even then he was still going ~600m/s.

Where you seldom find one ship to perfectly counter another, you will often find a good combination of 2-3 ships and teamwork will counter almost any single ship, usually without matching their price tag.
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