Crane fit for low/null sec hauling + exploration/salvage

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Noh Luciola

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Post 2019.11.26 04:04

Crane fit for low/null sec hauling + exploration/salvage

So I was debating awhile back the merits of fitting combat probes on a blockade runner:

https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 4&t=114887

Since my fitting skills are all V, I decided to give it a shot (resigning myself to post the killboard here when it all ends catastrophically).

That being said, I chose the Crane (most CPU and base EHP) as my guinea pig. I got a lot of good advice/perspective on my last thread and was hoping to get some feedback on tradeoffs for the fit:

[Crane, Cloak/SExpProbe/ECM]

'Halcyon' Core Equalizer I
Damage Control II

Gistum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Upgraded Explosive Deflection Amplifier I
Sentient Burst Jammer
50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing II

Cloak/SExpProbe/ECM (Crane)

EHP: 18.2k (Em: 15k, Th: 31k, Kin: 19.6k, Exp: 17.3k)
Shield: 9.39k (Em: 59%, Th: 82%, Kin: 74%, Exp: 73%)
Armor: 2.89k (Em: 57%, Th: 88%, Kin: 68%, Exp: 24%)
Hull: 5.91k (Em: 60%, Th: 60%, Kin: 60%, Exp: 60%)

Speed: 1844 m/s
Signature: 690 m
Capacitor: 1.22k GJ (Lasts 2m0s)
Targeting range: 32.6 km
Scan resolution: 163 mm
Sensor strength: 19

The tradeoffs I am looking at are within the mid-slot modules and the rigs.

To summarize:

1) MWD capacitor vs tank?

Right now I get 4m10s (2m with both the MWD and ECM burst active) of MWD with the Y-T8 Compact, however, I could swap this out with the Cold-Gas Enduring meta and get 7m20s instead (2m20s with the ECM burst active). The fitting sacrifice for this will be a Supplemental
Explosive Deflection Amplifier resulting in ~300 less EHP (17.9k vs 18.2k) and about +3mil more cost.

2) ECM burst worth it?

In it's place, if I fit a Medium Processor Overclocking Unit II, I would have just enough CPU left to fit an Adaptive Invulnerability Field II:

[Crane, Cloak/SExpProbe/Shield]

'Halcyon' Core Equalizer I
Damage Control II

Upgraded EM Ward Amplifier I
Supplemental Explosive Deflection Amplifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit II
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I

Cloak/SExpProbe/Shield (Crane)

EHP: 20.3k (Em: 15.5k, Th: 37.4k, Kin: 23.9k, Exp: 19k)
Shield: 11.5k (Em: 62%, Th: 88%, Kin: 82%, Exp: 77%)
Armor: 2.89k (Em: 57%, Th: 88%, Kin: 68%, Exp: 24%)
Hull: 5.91k (Em: 60%, Th: 60%, Kin: 60%, Exp: 60%)

Speed: 1825 m/s
Signature: 690 m
Capacitor: 1.22k GJ (Lasts 2m50s)
Targeting range: 32.6 km
Scan resolution: 163 mm
Sensor strength: 19

This fit is also cheaper by about $50mil.

3) Rigs... Polycarbon vs Gravity Capacitor Upgrade?

The Polycarbon brings my align times down by approximately 1s (5s/7s with/without MWD running) but the Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I brings my core/combat probe strength up from 72.6/36.3 to 78.91/39.45.

Would +6 core and +3 combat probe strength be worth a 1s slower align?

If you've made it this far into my post thanks for taking the time to read.

Thoughts?
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Anidien Dallacort

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Post 2019.11.26 05:42

Re: Crane fit for low/null sec hauling + exploration/salvage

What do you plan to do with the ship? What area of space, what opposition do you plan on facing?
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Noh Luciola

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Post 2019.11.26 06:51

Re: Crane fit for low/null sec hauling + exploration/salvage

Anidien Dallacort wrote:What do you plan to do with the ship? What area of space, what opposition do you plan on facing?


Truthfully I'm not sure. I'm pretty new to low/null sec but I'd imagined doing a bit probing for abandoned drones/cargo and possibly some low level exploration sites (the more difficult ones will likely be beyond my probe strength) along with some trade/hauling if opportunities present themselves.

I won't be fighting anyone (no weapons on a blockade runner) - the closest thing to an offensive module I might fit would be the ECM burst.
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Ernesto Guevarti

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Post 2019.11.26 06:56

Re: Crane fit for low/null sec hauling + exploration/salvage

From both this and the previous thread, it feels like you have a solution in search of a non-existant problem.

If you want to go ahead with it, that is of course fine, it's your game to be played however you enjoy, but I'm not sure this realy counts as a valid fitting discussion (just my opinion), maybe just post in PVE section about how it goes for you?
Daniel Wittaker wrote:You could have a bright career ahead of you in Goonforums. That's some upvote-quality Helldump posting. Well done, sir.
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Anidien Dallacort

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Post 2019.11.26 07:06

Re: Crane fit for low/null sec hauling + exploration/salvage

Noh Luciola wrote:
Anidien Dallacort wrote: doing a bit probing for abandoned drones/cargo


This isn't a thoroughly horrible idea. If you are looking for Rorqual level drones, for example, that might get abandoned. But a lot of that opportunity is going to be in Sov Null - up to you whether to violate the sovereign territory/risk that.

While combats to pick up abandoned drones for income isn't thoroughly horrible, I'm not sold on the ECM module. If you get pinned in a BR out in low/null, are you going to have time to break the lock?

BR's survive by not being locked in the first place.

Not contending the ECM fit entirely - just seems like you are fitting for several roles rather than one.

If you feel you will face something that will lock you and point you, and you have enough survivability to break lock and escape - ECM isn't terrible.
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Noh Luciola

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Post 2019.11.26 19:58

Re: Crane fit for low/null sec hauling + exploration/salvage

Anidien Dallacort wrote:
Noh Luciola wrote:
Anidien Dallacort wrote: doing a bit probing for abandoned drones/cargo


This isn't a thoroughly horrible idea. If you are looking for Rorqual level drones, for example, that might get abandoned. But a lot of that opportunity is going to be in Sov Null - up to you whether to violate the sovereign territory/risk that.

While combats to pick up abandoned drones for income isn't thoroughly horrible, I'm not sold on the ECM module. If you get pinned in a BR out in low/null, are you going to have time to break the lock?

BR's survive by not being locked in the first place.

Not contending the ECM fit entirely - just seems like you are fitting for several roles rather than one.

If you feel you will face something that will lock you and point you, and you have enough survivability to break lock and escape - ECM isn't terrible.


I've been scouting out the Crane kills on https://zkillboard.com/ship/12729/ - I'm not sure how representative a sample this is but I don't really know of anything better. Barring some of the asinine careless fits (obvious even to me), there seem to be a few trends:

First would be pure cargo (all rig and low slots) fits.
Second is shield tank fits (all mids fit with shield modules and sometimes MWD).
Thirdly, a hybrid of either shield or cargo with inertial stabilizers.

Notable is the almost complete lack of DCIIs (and warp core stabs for a fair number) in these kills. I would think fitting these, along with a MWD, would be be a no-brainer.

The cargo fits I guess I can understand; a pilot rolling the dice hoping their covops will be enough to squeak by. I suspect inertial stabs and shield extenders/rigs are bad since they inflate your sig making you easier to lock and pin, however, I only see a few ECM bursts fit. Also, only one fit with combat probes (likely because you'd have to be some kind of nonsensical nitwit even to try...)

I guess at the end of the day the margins I'm dealing will probably at best matter situationally.

In a more succinct fashion, my main questions distilled would be:

Is 2mins cap sufficient for MWD in an escape situation?

Will +3/+6 points (combat/core probe boost with the scanning rig) make any kind of difference - or is it better to have a 1 sec faster align?
Last edited by Noh Luciola on 2019.11.27 07:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Hirmuolio Pine

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Post 2019.11.26 20:19

Re: Crane fit for low/null sec hauling + exploration/salvage

Crane is a blockade runner.
If it gets caught it will die. The end.

The crane is cloak tanked. You are never uncloaked.
You cloak immediately after jumping and warp away.
You always dock with insta dock bookmarks. Slowboating the last 1200 m that you get with normal warp will get you killed.
You always undock with instaundock bookmarks. Trying to align on station will get you killed.

The only way to die is either:
Jump into bubble and get decloaked as you slowboat away. Use scouts to avoid.
Warp into dirty bubble. Never warp without d-scanning target.
Jump into busy gate and are unable to cloak. Can happen if you are unlucky in high sec. This is why you should fit some tank (~13k to survive one tornado).

Fitting more than 13k but less than 26k tank is worthless. You either tank one tornado or tank two tornados, no point in tanking one and half tornado. Better to get more agility or cargo.

You do not need more than one MWD cycle worth of cap stability. To get more MWD cycles you need to be uncloaked and you should never do that.
If you can not cloak you die.

If you ger caught in low/null you are dead. In low/null you are pointed/bubbled and you just die. There is nothing you can do to escape if you get caught. ECM burst is very unlikely to work but you might as well use that since tank won't help at all.

You should not use crane for salvaging.
If you want cov-ops salvager use cov-ops frigates. Those also get massive probing bonus.

If you still want to do it this is how you fit salvager crane:
Speed and agility.
You need to burn out/crash gate in hostile bubbles that you jump into.
Nothing else matters. You need to be fast and get out of bubbles without getting decloaked.
Mid slots can't be used for speed so fit some tank. Just in case the hostiles are incompetent and you manage to slip away.
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Noh Luciola

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Post 2019.11.26 22:37

Re: Crane fit for low/null sec hauling + exploration/salvage

Hirmuolio Pine wrote:Crane is a blockade runner.
Fitting more than 13k but less than 26k tank is worthless. You either tank one tornado or tank two tornados, no point in tanking one and half tornado. Better to get more agility or cargo.


Assuming 13k+ EHP, not raw, right? So the difference between 17k and 19k EHP is pretty negligible then. Two volleys and I'm done regardless.

Hirmuolio Pine wrote:You do not need more than one MWD cycle worth of cap stability. To get more MWD cycles you need to be uncloaked and you should never do that.
If you can not cloak you die.


Just to clarify the mechanics of this situation, if I get caught in a bubble then I will remain (covops) cloaked but will be able to get cycle out of my MWD. Should I plan to overheat then?

Hirmuolio Pine wrote:If you ger caught in low/null you are dead. In low/null you are pointed/bubbled and you just die. There is nothing you can do to escape if you get caught. ECM burst is very unlikely to work but you might as well use that since tank won't help at all.


In this manner, is the extra warp stab beneficial - or should I consider swapping that out for a nanofiber (fitting this will shave yet another sec off my align)?

Hirmuolio Pine wrote:You should not use crane for salvaging.
If you want cov-ops salvager use cov-ops frigates. Those also get massive probing bonus.

If you still want to do it this is how you fit salvager crane:
Speed and agility.
You need to burn out/crash gate in hostile bubbles that you jump into.
Nothing else matters. You need to be fast and get out of bubbles without getting decloaked.
Mid slots can't be used for speed so fit some tank. Just in case the hostiles are incompetent and you manage to slip away.


I was using the term "salvage" pretty loosely, more in terms of scanning down and sweeping up abandoned drones/equipment to start, not fitting a salvager per se. I'm planning to carry a mobile depot so if I happen to scan down an easy hacking/salvaging opportunity then I'll have the option to refit and go for it. But since doing so will make me visible to anyone else scanning I'll probably not try this for awhile.
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Anidien Dallacort

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Post 2019.11.26 23:25

Re: Crane fit for low/null sec hauling + exploration/salvage


Just to clarify the mechanics of this situation, if I get caught in a bubble then I will remain (covops) cloaked but will be able to get cycle out of my MWD. Should I plan to overheat then?



If your cloak stays intact (nothing in the bubble within 2km of where you land), you won’t be able to activate your MWD for even one cycle, let alone many. Just move away from anyone still cloaked.

If the bubble has junk in it to uncloak you - you have a 5 second delay to be able to reclaim. If that’s a guarded bubble, you’re probably dead in the paper tank of a BR - but sure, trying to burn away might save you, just not something to count on. In other words - it’s not going to save you often enough to fit for at the expense of other bonuses.
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Noh Luciola

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Post 2019.11.27 07:51

Re: Crane fit for low/null sec hauling + exploration/salvage

Anidien Dallacort wrote:
If the bubble has junk in it to uncloak you - you have a 5 second delay to be able to reclaim. If that’s a guarded bubble, you’re probably dead in the paper tank of a BR - but sure, trying to burn away might save you, just not something to count on. In other words - it’s not going to save you often enough to fit for at the expense of other bonuses.



Would the ECM burst be useful in this situation or will they likely just be locking me outside of its range (20k+)?

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