Abyssal Frigate Team Builds

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Eadrom Vintarus

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Post 2018.11.22 01:24

Re: Abyssal Frigate Team Builds

Kano Fiera wrote:
Eadrom Vintarus wrote:It's fit along similar principles as the Vengeance fits. It's probably a bad fit (small extender, had to use a fitting low, etc) but it's close enough to paint a picture. The jag fit does around 70 less DPS, has literally half the cap strength (7 vs 14 GJ/sec), does a little less EHP/s remote repping, has less buffer, The only thing I really see going for the jag is that it's about 20% faster.

As for the retribution, it has a weaker cap, only two mids, and it's turret weapons suck in dark abyssals.

Note that I didn't make the Vengeance fits, so I can't speak authoritatively on the exact reasons why the fits are the way they are. The WHC guys who tested them extensively on SiSi is who made the fits.They have a lot of experience testing the fits, whereas I have none! : D The results of their testing is that for firestorm and dark, the Vengeance is clearing T4's and T5's for Dark and T4's for Firestorm. They are still working on a good T5 firestorm fit.


Whoa, I must have gotten turned around somewhere. For some reason I can't find the Vengance fit in this thread anymore, can you share the one you're comparing so I can make sure I'm looking at the right thing?


: D
I posted them over to the actual "doing stuff" thread I made in NSC forum (this being more of a general planning, fitting discussion thread).

See here: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 2&t=111543
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Kano Fiera

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Post 2018.11.22 02:22

Re: Abyssal Frigate Team Builds

Eadrom Vintarus wrote:: D
I posted them over to the actual "doing stuff" thread I made in NSC forum (this being more of a general planning, fitting discussion thread).

See here: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 2&t=111543


Thanks. I definitely got turned around, must have been looking at the wrong thing. I do have a fit that is competitive, but it's much more blingy.

SPOILER WARNING!
[Jaguar, Abyssal Experimental AB spider II]

Ballistic Control System II
Crosslink Compact Ballistic Control System
Capacitor Power Relay II

1MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
Caldari Navy Medium Shield Extender
Domination Explosive Deflection Amplifier
Domination Kinetic Deflection Amplifier

Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Gistii A-Type Small Remote Shield Booster

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II


Hobgoblin II x2
Warrior II x2


Inferno Javelin Rocket x1000
Inferno Rage Rocket x1000
Mjolnir Javelin Rocket x1000
Mjolnir Rage Rocket x1000
Nova Javelin Rocket x1000
Nova Rage Rocket x1000
Scourge Javelin Rocket x1000
Scourge Rage Rocket x1000


Comparison at max skills:

Buffer: Jaguar 10.5k, Vengance 10.2k
DPS: Jaguar 182 (with Hobgoblin II drones, Warrior IIs as backup) at 8.44km; Vengance 194 at 9.21km
Tank: Jaguar 91.69 EHP remote rep plus 41.8 EHP passive shield; Vengance 98.5 EHP remote rep plus 8 EHP passive shield
Speed: Jaguar 1192 @ 41 sig; Vengance 1019 @ 37 sig
Cost: Jaguar 112m, no implant; Vengance 42.8m, fitting implant

I have a cheaper fit that drops the spider tank in favor of passive local tank, a better buffer and an Assault Damage Control, but without actual experience flying frigs into Abyssals I can't say whether that's practical or not.
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Eadrom Vintarus

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Post 2018.11.22 04:05

Re: Abyssal Frigate Team Builds

With all 5's skills, comparing the firestorm vengeance fit (since dark would hinder the dps of the jag even more than they will in other abyssals). Firestorm build also doesn't require any implants so we can compare the fits purely on their own merits.

Veng has 245 rocket dps @ 10km vs Jag's 160 rocket dps @ 8.44km (+39.6 dps w/ hob II's) for a total of 199 dpswhen drones are able to help
Veng has 75% thermal resist vs the Jag's 60% thermal resist, that's before the weather effect nukes that down, so the Veng wont' have as big a thermal hole as the Jag
Veng reps at 240 ehps vs JAg's 183 ehps (omni damage, before thermal resist reduction from weather)
Veng has about 9k ehp with the armor bonus from weather, Jag clocks in at around 11k
Veng has 1061 m/s vs Jag's 1192 m/s
Veng has 37m sig radiu vs Jag's 41m sig radius
Veng has 3.5GJ/sec extra cap, the Jag is barely cap stable at perfect skills with only 0.6 GJ/sec extra cap
You can buy about two vengeances for each jag, meaning it takes about twice as many sites on average to break even on your PVE investment.

So from what I'm seeing, the Jag is a little faster and has a little more buffer, but loses in every other stat.
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Kano Fiera

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Post 2018.11.22 04:20

Re: Abyssal Frigate Team Builds

Eadrom Vintarus wrote:With all 5's skills, comparing the firestorm vengeance fit (since dark would hinder the dps of the jag even more than they will in other abyssals). Firestorm build also doesn't require any implants so we can compare the fits purely on their own merits.

Veng has 245 rocket dps @ 10km vs Jag's 160 rocket dps @ 8.44km (+39.6 dps w/ hob II's) for a total of 199 dpswhen drones are able to help
Veng has 75% thermal resist vs the Jag's 60% thermal resist, that's before the weather effect nukes that down, so the Veng wont' have as big a thermal hole as the Jag
Veng reps at 240 ehps vs JAg's 183 ehps (omni damage, before thermal resist reduction from weather)
Veng has about 9k ehp with the armor bonus from weather, Jag clocks in at around 11k
Veng has 1061 m/s vs Jag's 1192 m/s
Veng has 37m sig radiu vs Jag's 41m sig radius
Veng has 3.5GJ/sec extra cap, the Jag is barely cap stable at perfect skills with only 0.6 GJ/sec extra cap
You can buy about two vengeances for each jag, meaning it takes about twice as many sites on average to break even on your PVE investment.

So from what I'm seeing, the Jag is a little faster and has a little more buffer, but loses in every other stat.


I'm not seeing the same DPS stats at V for some reason. I get 217 for the Vengance and 182 total for the Jag. Either way, I agree with your conclusion overall compared to the Firestorm Vengance. I'm disappointed, I had hoped there would be more of a niche for the Minmatar AFs, but both the Jag and the Wolf seem underwhelming compared to Amarr or Gallente.
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Eadrom Vintarus

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Director of Special Projects
Director of Special Projects

Post 2018.11.22 05:13

Re: Abyssal Frigate Team Builds

Kano Fiera wrote:I'm not seeing the same DPS stats at V for some reason. I get 217 for the Vengance and 182 total for the Jag. Either way, I agree with your conclusion overall compared to the Firestorm Vengance. I'm disappointed, I had hoped there would be more of a niche for the Minmatar AFs, but both the Jag and the Wolf seem underwhelming compared to Amarr or Gallente.


That 217 dps is from the Veng Dark build which trades some dps for a plate for more buffer (the Vengeance Firestorm fit gets its buffer from the +% armor HP weather effect). So you are seeing the correct DPS, just using the wrong fit for comparison. I just compared your jag build to the other veng build since the jag build suffers more in darks because unbonused drones are even worse in dark than firestorm.
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Zeerse Solaris

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Post 2018.11.27 16:48

Re: Abyssal Frigate Team Builds

Apologies I didn't see this earlier, hence my somewhat duplicate post, but I've been running this at the AMC for 3 weeks so far :)
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Kyle Hargrove

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Fittings Manager
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Post 2019.01.14 10:55

Re: Abyssal Frigate Team Builds

Sorry for the necro, but did anyone get success doing this? Sounds like something quirky and interesting enough to me :D

What was the highest level that was reached? What were the fits?

Just wondering so that maybe I can start experimenting myself as soon as I'm back in WHC :P
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