[LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

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Ersin Oghuz

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Post 2018.09.16 20:33

[LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

Spoilers : I whelped the fleet(s)! :cry:

LSC moved into Heydieles completely and then left their previous office in Uphallant for good. Well I thought that would be nice to pay our respects to former LSC base and the region in general and say goodbye. Glen supported the idea and contracted me lots of frigates in Uphallant.

I planned a route, a very long route that covers majority of Placid lowsec systems and a bit of Verge Vendor lowsec system just before arriving to Heydieles (well at least that was the plan!)

Placid Region Map

Roam members (23)
SPOILER WARNING!
Athena Firefly - Merlin
Atticus Vex - Merlin, Nemesis
Durnik Risalo - Merlin
Ersin Oghuz - Merlin, Vexor
Falling Snow KumaMoto - Merlin
Ged Sinak - Federation Navy Comet, Brutix
Junmei Hucel-Ge
Kranamor Andedare - Merlin, Vexor
Laser Skaron - Burst
Maynard Orlenard - Republic Fleet Firetail
Mongo the Mechanic - Merlin
Nathan Tamroc - Augoror
Neemo Beer
Penelore - Burst, Augoror
Saylah Nebail - Merlin
Sir Tobias Helm
Space Warfare Development - Hyena, Nemesis
Vors Voorhorian - Merlin
Weadj - Merlin
Xanthys Pike - Merlin, Vexor
Zako Maken - Merlin, Augoror
Zero Defex - Tristan
xtx loki - Merlin


We had 2 Bursts, Lots of Merlins and some snowflake navy issue and t2 frigates with us.

Kills and Losses

So first we flew the south back pocket and covered the Ratting/Ice Mining zone between Aidart - Stacmon. I hoped to find some belt ratters or combat anomaly runners as well as ice miners but sadly there was none. There was a non-flashy Stratios at gate and encouraged us to engage him but we did not since we would take the gate guns and it was too early to whelp the fleet. But giving a second thought maybe we could take that fight. Maybe next time.

Then we moved forward to the middle zone : Covryn - Grispire to cover another pve rich envrionment to catch something. But that was another big nothing for us. Bob clearly had other plans for us.

The original plan to move to the north following the route Aubenall => Maut => Vlillirier but when a Nereus reported to move to VLI from ABU we moved fast to catch him and even we could not catch him I decided to take the route from VLI to AUB backwards :D

The systems were either quiet or too populated but without anyone on d-scan. Luckily a Thorax reported to land on our camped gate and seconds later we caught it and quickly eliminated him. Svipul rushed back to gate before we caught him while working on Thorax.

(19:13:14) Alparena
Thorax +39.58m

Well Thorax had friends and tried to chase us with Loki and some other assorted ships. Thanks to our scouts we evaded those ships and safely retreated. We travelled almost all northern area until we arrived to Reschard where a Garmur camping gate at range. We decided to avoid it due to kiting speed of Garmur, and sadly we could not tackle any frigates passing by the gates we are holding. We gave a 10 min biobreak in Osmoden.

When we began the second part of our journey our scouts reported a lonely venture spotted in Frarie. He was AFK plexing probably or at least not paying attention to the local chat since he could not see 17 new pilots in system, he was alone before, and he could not see us coming his way by using d-scan :)

(19:34:39) Frarie
Venture +0.23m

He was truly amazed due to the big fleet scene and cheered :) We replied him by overheating our "Send ISK to Capsuleer" module. I asked everyone to donate him 100k ISK, and someone donated 25million ISK to him and probably gave him another shock :D

Our next route is systems between Frarie - Loes (east pocket) and from there we will travel from Loes to Heydieles

We found an Apocalpyse in Ouelleta and took our chance. Scorpion, Orthrus and Cynabal jumped on us as well. And while we were fighting fleet was told to bounce to shake the gate guns off. However, I screwed up big time and instead of warping myself to a gate tactical to bounce back I initiated the fleet warp to a safe 40 AU away! That basically caused the destruction of the half of our fleet. A very big mistake truly.

(19:46:04) Ouelletta
Merlin -7.46m
Merlin -6.25m
Merlin -4.6m
Republic Fleet Firetail -27.1m
Burst -6.51m
Federation Navy Comet -30.17m
Hyena -66.82m
Capsule -144.65m
Capsule -0.01m
Capsule -0.01m

Although I whelped half of the fleet including our snowflakes, I decided why not going forward and upship to cruisers to hunt them down. We reshipped in Amygnon. We now had 3 Augorors, 1 Brutix and rest was in Vexors. We brought the fight to them at Jufvitte gate in Ouelleta. However I must say this Ged moved forward too early and took some hit before we were ready and positioned. However, the fight went well, our great logistics saved the Ged's Brutix and we destroyed the Scorpion and while began working on Apoc. and Cynabal they jumped to Jufvitte, while Orthrus stayed at range and kiting the gate.

(20:03:14) Ouelletta
Scorpion +188.14m

We warped to tactical from there but Kronomor jumped into Jufvitte and trapped there apperantly since Cynabal camping the Jufvitte side of the gate. We were all suspects so they won't have issue to engage us and pick us one by one. I told Kronomor to warp to gate and jump to Ouelletta where we can take them. However he could not do that since Cynabal burned towards him and he panicked and warped to sun. He told us that he was engaged by Cynabal but at that time we did not know that he was not at gate. I warped the fleet to Juf gate and we jumped to Jufvitte. The plan is to repair the Vexor and jump back to Ouelletta without taking fight in highsec. When we could not see Kronomor's Vexor in Jufvitte side and he was not responding that time, we warped to him to save him (bad decision, very bad.) So he was there at sun, but died already before we arrived (50 AU warp) and we were trapped there at sun with Cynabal and then Orthrus joined. We lost cruisers there again before we managed to scatter.

(20:13:15) Jufvitte
Vexor -67.16m
Augoror -14.21m
Augoror -13.55m
Nemesis -159.35m

In overall the cruiser fight was good, but two major mistakes led the fleet into whelp. Wrong positioning & miscommunication. I also want to thank all people who joined the fleet and had the endurance to cope up with me 3 straight hours. I must say very few could have endure that challenging accent without having headaches. Thanks to Kronomor and Space Warfare for voluntering 2IC and 3ICs. Nathan, xtx loki and Mongo for scouting, Penelore and Laser for brining logistics!

DO NOT FORGET TO APPLY FOR SRP and FILL THIS FEEDBACK FORM!

And next time (yes, IT WILL BE A SECOND MAGIC MERLIN FLEET!) we will travel more specific areas for better content!

Stats
ISK Destroyed: 227,953,428.63
ISK Lost: 547,845,766.85
ISK Delta: -319,892,338.22
Efficiency: 29.383%

Overall evaluation
    (Positive stuff)
    + We travelled through almost all Placid lowsec systems to find content and to explain the importance of those systems and possible contents.
    + Scouts did a good job on finding us some content in a very very content poor time of the week.
    + We did a 3 hour lasting fleet !
    (Negative stuff)
    - I should have take the chance on that Stratios!
    - My mistake on using fleet warp at the beginning of the Ouelletta Apoc fight. I need to prevent myself to use fleet warps from now on.
    - Miscommunication issues. Kronomor did not told us he was at sun, but I should have asked him again and wait for fleep warp until I got a response from him. That would have prevented the cruiser fleet losses.
"In Blasters I Trust"


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Falling Snow KumaMoto

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Post 2018.09.16 22:14

Re: [LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

What?!?!? We spent so much time together jumping around, scouting, taking a highly enjoyable but peaceful tour of lovely low-sec Placid, while we repeatedly failed to point blockade runners and a ridiculously agile ship (Pacifier?). Then, we crush a Thorax + Venture (lol on the ooc srp), and I must slip out for RL appointment. Five minutes later, while you're all driving back home, you get a big fight and a great (partial) whelping. Clearly it is ME who is the "no fights" charm/curse. Same on the POCO missions. I went on 2 of them, no fights. Other POCO fleets: bloody. Next time be ready! If you don't see Snow, it's gonna get hot; preheat all modules, lol.

Very fun fleet though, thanks much Ersin and everyone else. Special thanks to Space Warfare Development for scouting me out of that Maut station after the Thorax guy and his pals were angrily hunting us, and to Zero for partnering with me for the sometimes-dangerous drive from Amy to Uph.
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Ersin Oghuz

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Post 2018.09.17 07:45

Re: [LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

AAR completed :)

True story ! Thorax fella was very angry with us :)
"In Blasters I Trust"


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Laser Skaron

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Post 2018.09.17 09:27

Re: [LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

Overall, it was enjoyable. Am a bit sad to have had to drop before we upshipped to vexors but some general feedback for the first part of the fleet.

- Having 7 waypoints active at the same time during the fleet is ridiculous. Only set 1 waypoint, 2 at most. If you really want to check pockets, send your scouts there, you don't have to carry the entire fleet on every gate, and wait on every gate. Standard example is the Brarel pocket (which we went to) - that's 3 systems there, you can send a scout to check all of them, and tell him to yell "I found content, join me" while the fleet is doing something else.
- We're in cheap disposable merlins - if a fight sounds pseudo plausible, go for it! I'm fairly certain that stratios would have wrecked a lot of us, and would have pressured our logi, but the correct call there is the following:
"Everyone, this Stratios is waiting for us here and asking for content in local. We're going to give it to him. Here's the plan. We can't survive sustained gate guns but we are going to do the following. We'll throw everything we got at him, logi is going to buy time. Sort targets by range, make sure you also have some nearby celestials on your overview or you have pings close. Once you get low (half shields) you bounce to your ping and them immediately come back and start shooting. That is your default stance. Logi keep me updated on how many people we lose. Don't forget to broadcast, let's go ham boys!"
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Conci Furiram

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Post 2018.09.17 13:02

Re: [LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

I'm seeing a few non-doctrine snowflakes in the losses and in the roam member list. It's important to communicate to these players during form-up that this is not acceptable behavior; let them spin in station if they refuse to ship correctly.

As Laser Skaron pointed out above, in this fleet, the FC expected a cheap, throwaway doctrine with clean pods so that he can YOLO fights and win the ISK war.

The guilty losses below:

SPOILER WARNING!
Capsule -144.65m
Nemesis -159.35m
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Ged Sinak

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Post 2018.09.17 14:56

Re: [LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

It was a stupid mistake on my part to get engaged. I forgot that I was flashy and was waiting on the Oue gate Juf where I was engaged by the Cynabal. Luckily I didn't engage and get Concorded. Sorry for being stupid there and thanks for logi coming to save me.

Thanks for fleet, even though I was only there for the end I still had fun.

Fly dangerously,

Ged
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Personnel Officer, FCC Lieutenant Junior Grade, Teacher, NSC Combat Officer
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Kranamor Andedare

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Post 2018.09.17 18:23

Re: [LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

I made a huge mistake in this case. I believe I called that I was at the sun, but most likely I said it with pressing the wrong button or something along those lines. I'm really sorry for the loses there, but hey now I know I should watch if my name is lighting up on the Mumble overlay ...

I hope that it won't happen again and we all learned from my mistakes.

Fly for fun and profit,
Kran
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Space Warfare Development

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Post 2018.09.18 00:02

Re: [LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

Conci Furiram wrote:I'm seeing a few non-doctrine snowflakes in the losses and in the roam member list. It's important to communicate to these players during form-up that this is not acceptable behavior; let them spin in station if they refuse to ship correctly.

As Laser Skaron pointed out above, in this fleet, the FC expected a cheap, throwaway doctrine with clean pods so that he can YOLO fights and win the ISK war.

The guilty losses below:

SPOILER WARNING!
Capsule -144.65m
Nemesis -159.35m


Guilty as charged, Conci.
Sorry for the killmail loss, FC. My ship was destroyed because I wanted to help, and switched my safety from yellow to red before engaging the target.

Lessons Learned:
-Listen to the FC, he directed all ships safety settings to yellow. In lowsec, switching your safety setting from yellow to red and attacking a non-flashy target will cause CONCORD to instantly appear and destroy your ship. Don't try to help, against your most primitive of gut feelings, don't try to help. If the target is not flashy, and you cannot lock it, don't worry about it. Warp to a safe, wait for the FC's directions.
-Never throw people under buses. Mention what happened wrong, offer a solution or recommendation. Don't mention names. This keeps the pilots, especially the new ones, anonymous, aware of their mistakes, and gives them an open door to come back on future fleets.

I had fun, but with the ISK efficiency scale weighing greater than the fun of learning to fly in fleets, I will not be a burden to the fleet. Snowflakes are nice until one is destroyed.
I encourage all FCs to mention my snowflake loss as a fine example for safety settings on future fleets.
I am standing down from E-Uni fleet roams.
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Ersin Oghuz

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Post 2018.09.18 05:34

Re: [LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

Space Warfare Development wrote:-Never throw people under buses. Mention what happened wrong, offer a solution or recommendation. Don't mention names. This keeps the pilots, especially the new ones, anonymous, aware of their mistakes, and gives them an open door to come back on future fleets.
...
I am standing down from E-Uni fleet roams.


That is valid concern. Although my intention was to give a clear description what happened and why happened but not to single out members, it may discourage people for future fleets. But keep in mind that, I specifically blamed myself on both situations since as FC it was my major mistakes caused whelping not personal ones.

And I appreciate if you do not judge EUNI fleets by just one example. By all means come and join. ISK efficiency, although I prefer to have it, is not my primary concern. My concern is #1 : Learning & Teaching , #2 : Having fun, #3 : Experience new things.

So, Ged, Kronomor, Space Warfare, if I caused trouble by stating your names in AAR, please accept my apologies. And, if you stop joining EUNI fleets for this, I feel very bad about it and I won't accept your apologies :|
"In Blasters I Trust"


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Kranamor Andedare

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Post 2018.09.18 06:28

Re: [LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

I don't believe anybody's name was mentioned here for shaming or blaming. It's simply factual correctness. Everybody on fleet know who we are, but people reading AAR might not know and might want to ask us for what our mistakes were and how we can prevent them in the future.

Nobody should get discoraged over fleet losses, since the Uni fleets are exactly to lose stuff, when it doesn't matter that much and everybody can learn from everybody's mistakes.

Also we shouldn't really concern ourselves with ISK efficiency, since ISK efficiency shoud be the last thing the University stands for. We had fun, great content and learned a lot (at least me).
Also I believe ISK efficiency is here just as an example of what AARs in SOV nul and serious mercenary corps looks like.

Fly for fun,
Kranamor
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Kyle Hargrove

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Post 2018.09.18 08:21

Re: [LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

Space Warfare Development wrote:Lessons Learned:
-Listen to the FC, he directed all ships safety settings to yellow. In lowsec, switching your safety setting from yellow to red and attacking a non-flashy target will cause CONCORD to instantly appear and destroy your ship. Don't try to help, against your most primitive of gut feelings, don't try to help. If the target is not flashy, and you cannot lock it, don't worry about it. Warp to a safe, wait for the FC's directions.


Just a pointer in mechanics: aggressing a non-flashy target in Lowsec does not cause CONCORD to appear, as there is no CONCORD in lowsec. Instead, it causes NPC sentry guns that witness the aggression (could be within "old grid radius" aka around 300km - please validate tho) to attack the aggressor.

These sentries do a finite amount of damage (around 200 omni DPS per sentry - please validate this too), do not point or apply any EWAR, and only retaliate until warpout. In other words, if you unlawfully aggress a target sentries start shooting you, but if you warp out and back to the same grid while still being flashy sentries will not attack you when you are back on grid.

As for the rest, nobody really cares about ISK efficiency: it just reminds you to play smart and play as a team. An overly-blingy ship which does not fit the main fleet theme usually does neither. I don't know context in this case, so I'm not naming&shaming any particular person, but it's more of a general reflection :)

Have a good one!
K.
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Titus Tallang

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Post 2018.09.18 09:03

Re: [LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

Space Warfare Development wrote:
Conci Furiram wrote:The guilty losses below:

SPOILER WARNING!
Capsule -144.65m
Nemesis -159.35m


-Never throw people under buses. Mention what happened wrong, offer a solution or recommendation. Don't mention names. This keeps the pilots, especially the new ones, anonymous, aware of their mistakes, and gives them an open door to come back on future fleets.


Absolutely throw people under buses, especially if they're not only not a newbie, but also continuously present their lack of contribution as a badge of pride.
That's called being a terrible example, and needs to be counteracted publicly to avoid ingraining misinformation.
Scientia potentia est.
If a statement I made seems offensive to you, please be assured that this was not my intent.
If I am mistaken about something, please tell me about it. We improve through sharing knowledge.
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Zeerse Solaris

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Post 2018.09.18 11:27

Re: [LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

This is getting to be one of those AAR with more discussion on the reactions than the actions.

Ersin's report is fine as a commentary and doesn't read as criticism, if you don't name pilots they may not realise it's them and can learn something.


There on it degrades a bit, I've also commented in a separate AAR on a nemesis loss, but if Space really wants to bring it and the FC agrees, then no one in the AAR should just object to those decisions, the throwing under the bus term is being a bit misused by everyone, I agree just outing a loss as inappropriate is in itself inappropriate, the pilot's experience in game has no bearing on how he can be treated.

Maybe there is learning through these losses and either an effective pilot/nemesis low sec roam fit will emerge or the pilot will rethink. It's valid I think to question the why and if it can be effective, but if the AAR turns into a debate on one non-doctrine's fit/role it should go elsewhere.
E-uni Teacher:: Apply to be a teacher
E-uni Mentor: Apply to be a mentor
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Alexander Oromov

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Post 2018.09.18 11:58

Re: [LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

Space Warfare Development has always been an exceptional corporation member. He is passionate about what he does and always motivated to learn.

EVE Online is all about fun. SWD loves his Nemesis and I don't see a problem with it. He is with no doubt among E-Uni's top scouts, joins fleets actively - flying just as many interceptors, e-war and t1 combat ships as his nemesis - and has reluctantly contributed to many constructive AAR discussions verbally and vocally.

Baltec used to bring his Megathron to any fleet and has not only made a name for himself, but a name for the ship doctrine that won the Fountain War. And not enough, he has also brought a lot of joy to his fleets.

Continuously shaming people in public - injustified - teaming up and encouraging people to throw people under the bus does prove of the dysfunctional corporation subculture in EVE University which made me leave. Unfortunately, it appears I've made the right decision after all.

And what's the reasoning behind the shaming? All I see from Conci and Titus first page on the killboard is about one activity entry per month almost entirely made out of killing E-Uni people and what appears to be two whole fleets or QRF since late February for Titus and one fleet for Conci since May. If you don't play the game with your corp members and were not present, wouldn't it be a better way to let them play the game and figure it out themselves ...or just join those fleets and contribute yourself.

After all - like Zeerse said - FC's are in control, if they don't like a Nemesis in fleet, that's up to the individual FC to decide.
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Glen Burney

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Post 2018.09.18 16:43

Re: [LSC] Farewell to Uphallant Fleet

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If anyone else wants free ships from Uphallant, please let me know.
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