Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

Forum rules
Discussions about EVE University should go in the E-Uni General Discussion subforum. If you have questions about joining EVE University, please contact our Personnel Department.
<<

Emi Kovacs

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.06.14 16:07

Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

I've been thinking about skill queue choices we do (or don't) make as new players - and I'm curious what others have done or think about this.

Too Long; Might Not Read Section:

I'm an new player (sort of - about 8.5M SP and and about 3.5 months now). I came in with limited MMO experience and no knowledge of how EVE works or any early advice beyond the tutorial. Like many noobs, I imagine, I got enamored with one ship or career or whatever after another, changing my focus and goals about what I want to train from one week to another - leading to a pretty disjointed training plan; it took me months to find out about the Magic 14 concept (not until after I joined Eve Uni, in fact).

The Magic 14 skills, if training to V (as is recommended) don't include a host of career-specific skills - including, notably, weapons - and yet takes a long time to train (especially from a newbie's perspective).

I think it's also important to remember how profoundly competitive EVE is - without well-developed skills, a player can't really keep up in a lot of areas, especially PvP (a problem for me I still haven't worked out).

Just to throw the thought out there, I often wonder what percentage of newcomers give up within a couple of weeks. I'm not faulting anyone - the game isn't for everyone, and people find that out and move on.

OK, this section wasn't that long.

TL;DR

Recognizing different players have different goals, what makes a sensible (sort-of generic, maybe) initial training plan or philosophy for a new player that gets important skills to workable levels without interfering with immediate-gratification needs (like "I want it now" and training for weapons, ships, and specialized interests).

No idea if there's ANY good answer for this question...
<<

Adrien Claremont

Portrait

Campus Manager
Campus Manager

Post 2018.06.14 16:47

Re: Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

<<

Emi Kovacs

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.06.14 17:02

Re: Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

I get the wisdom of the BLAP plan, but it's Uni-centered - designed to get corp members up to speed on specific doctrines. Case in point, many players might not want to or need to train up all racial frigates.

Personally, I'm curious about more generic philosophies for more generic players.
<<

Dunar Dolorgiet

Portrait

Director of Education
Director of Education

Post 2018.06.14 17:25

Re: Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

Emi Kovacs wrote:I get the wisdom of the BLAP plan, but it's Uni-centered - designed to get corp members up to speed on specific doctrines. Case in point, many players might not want to or need to train up all racial frigates.

Personally, I'm curious about more generic philosophies for more generic players.


A commonly recommended generic approach is to train all racial battlecruisers to lvl 3, get the medium weapon systems and support skills for those as a solid base. BLAP takes you a good strech of the way.

As far as taking any skill to lvl 5 is concerend ... with the exception of "Drones" you don't want to do that when starting out. Training to 4 gives you 80% of the benefit at < 20% time spent. Don't blindly take any skill to level 5, look for alternatives as there are many ... 5% reduction in CPU need for some module might be just as good as 5% CPU increase but trained in a matter of hours instead of 5 days.
<<

Hideo Date

Portrait

Communications Manager
Communications Manager

Post 2018.06.14 17:56

Re: Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

This really is a tough one...if you are going for any kind of combat orientation it's easy. Magic 14 plus BLAP and your very nicely covered (and btw, training to the "recommended" level might not be a good choice for every new player...certainly if you got other areas you also want to develop as well)

buuuuut other than that, it really depends on your preferred area of play, and I doubt there is much you can just let everyone train regardless of what they are into (apart from what is covered by magic 14).

My advice would be to try and find an area you enjoy at the beginning and then simply train in that direction, don't try to go for "perfect" skills at the beginning, rather work your way up a bit, see how far you can go with those skills and apply the learning you get while doing that to get a more developed opinion about what to train.

Everything else, like proper remaps and skillplans that give a broad spectrum of skills over the span of 1-2 years are out of scope for this specific question I'd recon....still gonna mention it^^
Communications Manager




EVE Uni blog
EVE Uni Twitter
EVE Uni Facebook



You can find me on Twitter @hideo_date
I stream over at: https://www.twitch.tv/hideodate
<<

Cryptic Sharvas

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.06.14 19:21

Re: Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

Train Blap it will give you the basics to be able to enjoy some PvP fleets.

Train the Magic 14 to IV as it will make fitting stuff easier

Train into a isk making endeavour, whether that is a Station trading alt, or PI or Industry or mining or Reactions or missioning or ratting etc. As having an income makes this game better then not having an income. It's also easier to watch your stuff burn if you can easily replace it.

Then get interceptors (trust me movement is important)

Finish off the magic 14 to V.
Image ImageImageImageImage
<<

Adree Jericho

Portrait

Teaching Manager
Teaching Manager

Post 2018.06.14 21:57

Re: Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

Emi Kovacs wrote:I think it's also important to remember how profoundly competitive EVE is - without well-developed skills, a player can't really keep up in a lot of areas, especially PvP (a problem for me I still haven't worked out).

"Profoundly competitive" is only so true, and even if it is, you're not nearly at the disadvantage you think you are.

EVE's power curve is very, very flat. Compare with a traditional MMO leveling system where your power gain is many orders of magnitude from where you begin. Contrast that with EVE, where the player with the highest SP is actually less than one order of magnitude more powerful than the newbro. And even then, you losing because the other guy had more SP than you isn't something that happens nearly enough for you to worry about it.

It would be better to say how profoundly rare it is to get a totally fair and even fight where SP would even make a difference. Many fights occur specifically because someone has a numbers advantage or a counter-fit, or some other overwhelming advantage, and they go into the fight having already won. Even low SP newbros are able to do this!

The bottom line is that SP isn't something you should worry about, even in the early days, because any fights you lose will definitely not have been lost by being at an SP disadvantage. Your best bet is to heed Dunar's advice up above: don't look at level 5 as "you must be this tall to PvP." Level 5 is icing on the cake after you establish a solid set of level 4s. Spread yourself thin - it's okay, even great! It means you'll be able to participate in more activities, get into more fleets, make more friends, and get more practice. Your soft skills (things the player knows and is good at) are infinitely more powerful than your hard skills (things you put SP into). Check out an experienced player PvPing on a 17-day old account - no main feeding him cash, no ultra-bling, just good PvP fundamentals. Even in the most competitive avenue, SP hardly seemed to matter.

My advice: worry about your soft skills before hard skills, get involved, practice, and have a good time. Don't wait to involve yourself just because someone might be doing 5% more damage than you. Go out and make something happen today!
<<

Emi Kovacs

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.06.14 22:13

Re: Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

Cryptic Sharvas wrote:Then get interceptors (trust me movement is important)


This piece is so interesting/relevant to me right now. Effective range control is a huge weakness of mine, and interceptors seem to be a great solution. I've decided to train for interceptors only recently, and will be able to fly them in less than three days.

If only there were a Covert Ops Interceptor :twisted:
<<

Emi Kovacs

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.06.14 22:20

Re: Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

Adree Jericho wrote:The bottom line is that SP isn't something you should worry about, even in the early days, because any fights you lose will definitely not have been lost by being at an SP disadvantage. Your best bet is to heed Dunar's advice up above: don't look at level 5 as "you must be this tall to PvP." Level 5 is icing on the cake...


I think for me there's been an increasing worry over not so much skill level as access to Tech II gear (which often requires skills at V). Maybe I'm just trying to lay blame somewhere other than my inexperience :/

I will say this has been more a question of curiousity - thankfully I'm getting past some of the anxieties about my own skillset.

---------------------------------

BTW you've all been great with advice and opinions :)
<<

Adree Jericho

Portrait

Teaching Manager
Teaching Manager

Post 2018.06.15 00:30

Re: Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

Emi Kovacs wrote:I think for me there's been an increasing worry over not so much skill level as access to Tech II gear (which often requires skills at V).


One other FYI: while some T2 modules are unequivocal improvements, tech 2 guns in particular are not a no-brainer once you skill into them. There are legitimate use cases for the Meta 4 guns being used instead of T2, and they're not at all uncommon.
<<

Hideo Date

Portrait

Communications Manager
Communications Manager

Post 2018.06.15 05:09

Re: Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

yeah...t2 is nice an all....but it is not essential. Especially in Frigate PvP and even more so with not perfect fitting skills you will find yourself reaching for compact versions quite often. And that is totally fine!

As noted above your personal skill and knowledge are faaaaaaaar more important than SP. The same goes for implants, if you think you can own solo PvP because you got a 5B pod, think again. Perfect skills as well as expensive pods are the icing on the cake for when your player skill has improved to very high reaches.

Take for instance players who pretty much only fly one ship, for years. Yes they will have perfect skills and a five billion pod, but only to give them every bit of advantage. They could also jump into a clean alpha clone today, get minimum skills for their preferred ship and probably wreck you anyway even if you got some presumed advantage ship wise.

Take on the other hand me: I have pretty decent t2 skills for frigates (not perfect by any means still). Have been absolutely wrecked by basic t1 frigs even in Assault and Faction Frigates :D
Communications Manager




EVE Uni blog
EVE Uni Twitter
EVE Uni Facebook



You can find me on Twitter @hideo_date
I stream over at: https://www.twitch.tv/hideodate
<<

Dunar Dolorgiet

Portrait

Director of Education
Director of Education

Post 2018.06.15 05:45

Re: Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

Emi Kovacs wrote:
Cryptic Sharvas wrote:Then get interceptors (trust me movement is important)


This piece is so interesting/relevant to me right now. Effective range control is a huge weakness of mine, and interceptors seem to be a great solution.


Not necessarily about combat, but movement from system a to system b. Some interceptors come with a special role bonus which makes them immune to bubbles (area warp prevention useable in null and wh space - https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Interdic ... Bubbles.29 ). Combined with a special fitting ("travel fit") they make for a speedy and relatively safe personal transport. Those are often called "Travelcepter" or "Taxiceptors" for that reason.

If you're not moving thru null or wh space an accordingly fit t1 frigate will provide similar perks. https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... lit=travel has some more information on the topic and the lovely folks over at Brave made this great infographic: http://i.imgur.com/Uw8adhP.png
<<

Cassiel Seraphim

Portrait

Campus Manager
Campus Manager

Post 2018.06.15 12:03

Re: Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

You also have the wiki-article using dedicated ships for moving around that highlights some common options, ranging from extremely available and easy to get shuttles/frigates to the more high-skilled interceptors/Hecate options or ships with covert ops cloaks.
<<

Sagittarius Griffins

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.06.16 18:44

Re: Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

I'm just going to throw it out there, Biology V helps significantly with training in general and training off-map skills. And given how many events CCP has tossed our way this year, its probably a good "skill queue" investment, especially for SP-desperate newbros.
<<

Decklin Quark Reiger

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.06.26 00:12

Re: Sensible skill queues for newbros (like me)

Personally, I started by focusing on the skills that would help me out long term, for any ship. Namely, the Magic 14.

From there, I focused on the skills that let me use T2 tank modules, as the fitting skills to use the "standard" fits, but with T1 guns.

Personally I have always enjoyed flying small ships, so I chose a few frigates that I would fly a lot, and trained the skills that would get me 95% of the way to "perfect" for those specific ships.

This is actually a lot quicker than you might think. With some focused training, you can get there for a lot of frigates within a couple months ish. While you're waiting for those T2 guns, you can still get out there and get fights, learning your ship capabilities and learning what other ships can do.

Since then, I've basically expanded my range of ships that I can fly at that 95% level, and polished off some of the support skills, fitting skills and such to get that last 1-2% in terms of speed, agility, tank, lock range, turret range, tracking, etc. This level of polish is not really needed when you're starting out though.

Just focus on the key skills for the ships you enjoy :)

Edit: I almost forgot about alts. At some point you'll probably want to consider training an alternate character or more, to help with some of the activities that your main character isn't trained for. This can help with the tension of wanting to keep training combat skills, and also wanting to train skills for non combat activities.

By splitting that training across characters, you can do both at once, since there's not a whole ton of overlap in training the non-combat skills. That's more a consideration for down the road, but it can help with the feeling of, "I want to train it all".
Image
Next

Return to EVE Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Powered by Dediserve