Ferox

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Athena Firefly

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Post 2018.05.16 00:50

Ferox

Currently posted fits:

  • Shield Blaster (PvP)
    SPOILER WARNING!
    [Ferox, Shield Blaster]
    Heavy Ion Blaster II
    Heavy Ion Blaster II
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II
    Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I

    Warp Scrambler II
    Stasis Webifier II
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    Large Shield Extender II
    Large Shield Extender II
    10MN Microwarpdrive II

    Damage Control II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

    Hobgoblin II x 5

    This fit is broken in several ways. The "10MN" MWD is legacy and doesn't exist anymore, so should be changed. For some reason it also has a mix of guns, of varying ranges. Also, it has a legacy nosferatu in the utility high slot, where I think nowadays a Command Burst Module would be more beneficial. And I'm not sure about the web either.
    All in all a fit that is old, strange and goes over budget on PG by about 4%.

  • PVP Blaster Brawler
    SPOILER WARNING!
    [Ferox, PVP Blaster Brawler]
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II

    Warp Scrambler II
    50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
    Large Shield Extender II
    Large Shield Extender II
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II

    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

    Hobgoblin II x 5

    Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M x1
    Void M x1
    Null M x1

    This fit seems to work. It comes in under budget on both CPU and PG, seems to have a solid purpose and appears to have no issues. The utility high is empty though, and adding a Command Burst Module - while leaving the rest of the fit intact - will cause it to go more than 5% over budget on PG.
    However, the numbers in the Notes section are off:
    • With all skills at V and before any fleet boosts, this ship has 58.8 K EHP, flies at 1175 m/s (1667 m/s with MWD overheated) and align in 9.5 s (6.9 s with MWD off). The capacitor will last 2 min 26 s
    • Damage varies between 688 dps at 3.4 + 6.3 km with Caldari Navy Antimatter to 344 dps at 11 + 6.3 km with Caldari Navy Iron.

    These should instead be:
    • 65.4k EHP (Uniform); 1271 (1803 heated) m/s; align 9.5/6.58 seconds; 3m 0s capacitor life.
    • Damage between 631 DPS (1824 volley) @ 4.22 + 7.81 km with CN Antimatter, and 263 DPS (760 volley) @ 13.5 + 7.81 km with CN Iron.

  • Fleet
    SPOILER WARNING!
    [Ferox, Fleet]
    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    Auto Targeting System II

    50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
    Large Shield Extender II
    Large Shield Extender II
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    Thermal Dissipation Field II
    EM Ward Field II

    Damage Control II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Power Diagnostic System II

    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

    Hobgoblin II x5

    Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M x1

    Not much to say about this one. Long range, pretty good damage, high tank, and it fits. Still the "problem" of the utility high though.

  • Mission (PvE)
    SPOILER WARNING!
    [Ferox, Mission]
    250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
    250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
    250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
    250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
    250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
    250mm Prototype Gauss Gun

    Large Shield Booster II
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    Explosive Deflection Field II
    10MN Afterburner II
    Tracking Computer II
    Large Shield Extender II

    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

    Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
    Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
    Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

    Hobgoblin II x5

    Optimal Range Script x1
    Antimatter Charge M x1

    A fit for PvE missions. Looks a bit light on tank and seems to revolve around heavy (continuous?) use of the shield booster to stay alive. This might've been the idea behind the choice of rigs, but they don't appear to be doing very much: only increasing cap life from 1m 24s to 1m 45s with everything running. Also, with long range guns and range script loaded into tracking computer, it might have problems hitting closer/faster stuff, I dunno?


Proposed fits:

  • Null Sec Fleet/QRF Rails - T2 (currently listed under Fleet Up Fittings as 'NSC Reship Ferox - T2')
    SPOILER WARNING!
    [Ferox, Null Sec Fleet/QRF Rails - T2]

    Power Diagnostic System II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Damage Control II

    Large Shield Extender II
    Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
    50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
    Large Shield Extender II
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    EM Ward Field II

    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    Drone Link Augmentor I
    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
    Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II


    Warrior II x5


    Javelin M x1200
    Spike M x1200
    Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M x1200
    Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M x1200
    Caldari Navy Tungsten Charge M x1200
    Nanite Repair Paste x150
    Navy Cap Booster 400 x26

    The QRF/reship Ferox doctrine currently in use at the NSC. This fit is 0.45 MW over budget on PG (so requires e.g. a 1% implant, compact MWD or removing the drone link). The T1 version of the same (with meta4 guns) fits without problems though.
    Overall good damage, tank and versatility. Cap stable without MWD; 3 minutes of cap life with everything running.
    Edit: Updated the fit to compact MWD. Everything fits now!

  • Serpentis Mission PvE - Active Tank
    SPOILER WARNING!
    [Ferox, Serpentis Mission PvE - Active Tank]

    Damage Control II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

    Large Shield Booster II
    Shield Boost Amplifier II
    Thermal Dissipation Field II
    Kinetic Deflection Field II
    Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
    10MN Afterburner II

    250mm Railgun II, Spike M
    250mm Railgun II, Spike M
    250mm Railgun II, Spike M
    [Empty High slot]
    250mm Railgun II, Spike M
    250mm Railgun II, Spike M
    250mm Railgun II, Spike M

    Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
    Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
    Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I


    Hornet II x5


    Iridium Charge M x1000
    Antimatter Charge M x1000
    Javelin M x1000
    Spike M x1000
    Optimal Range Script x1
    Tracking Speed Script x1

    A rework of the old, existing 'Mission' fit, here set up for Serpentis NPC damage profile. Should include note to switch hardeners as needed to fit the mission profile!
    Numbers are:
    • 43.7k EHP (Serpentis); 329.4 EHP/s; 2m 32s capacitor life with everything running, stable with LSB off.
    • Damage: 405 DPS (1371 volley) @ 140 + 24.4 km (Spike); 631 DPS (2096 volley) @ 38.8 + 24.4 km (CN Antimatter); 639 DPS (2121 volley) @ 19.4 + 24.4 km (Javelin).

  • Dual LASB Blaster PvP Brawler
    SPOILER WARNING!
    [Ferox, Dual LASB Blaster PvP Brawler]

    Damage Control II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

    Warp Scrambler II
    Stasis Webifier II
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 150
    Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 150
    50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive

    Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
    Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
    Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
    Medium Ghoul Compact Energy Nosferatu
    Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
    Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
    Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M

    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
    Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II


    Acolyte II x5


    Null M x1000
    Void M x1000
    Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M x1000
    Nanite Repair Paste x150

    Hopefully a better blaster alternative to the old fits above.
    Numbers are:
    • 39.7k EHP (Uniform); 291.5 EHP/s with 1 booster, 582.9 EHP/s with both; 5m 10s capacitor life with everything running, stable with MWD off. Speed 1160 m/s (1647 heated); 7.81s align time.
    • Damage: 558 DPS (1515 volley) @ 9.84 + 8.75 km (Null); 678 DPS (1812 volley) @ 3.52 + 6.25 km (CN Antimatter); 747 DPS (1982 volley) @ 5.27 + 3.12 km (Void).
Last edited by Athena Firefly on 2018.05.20 00:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Hirmuolio Pine

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Post 2018.05.16 06:08

Re: Ferox

You missed one cardinal sin that the PvE fit commits: it mixes buffer tank (shield extender) with active tank. Swap the shield extender for boost amplifier, large shield booster for a medium shield booster (note: Pithum C-type is only ~37 mil so that would be decent upgrade to install). This will free up fitting room to fit a command burst. It still has a bit low tank. With TH/KIN hardeners against Serpentis it repairs 128 EHP/s sustained (202 EHP/s for 4 min) while active tanked hurricane repairs 177 EHP/s stable (passive tank hurricane gets 315 EHP/s peak regen).

Oh and the hardeners! That ship should almost never fit adaptive invuln field. Just put some pair of damage specific hardeners and tell in notes to swap hardeners to fit incoming damage.

Tracking doesn't look too bad (bring both scripts so you can swap). That thing should be able to hit frigs easily as they get closer and then use drones to take out frigates that get into orbit range.

The fourth magnetic field stabilizer should probably be swapped for something else (it gives 6% dps after stacking penalties). Tracking enhancer would make it apply better while damage control would improve the tank.
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Raido Kudonen

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Post 2018.05.16 23:46

Re: Ferox

Buffer blaster Feroxes aren't very good for solo PvP, and Feroxes generally are bad for small-gang PvP (no tracking bonus, slow, not particularly good at anything relevant to small-gang PvP). The second of those fits is particularly garbage, since it doesn't even have a web.

For a long time, the normal solo Ferox was a dual XLASB blaster fit that could tank 600-something ehp/s per XLASB and therefore fight a large number of frigates and other small ships. That got pretty much killed by the grid changes, so RIP. (It now takes 5 fitting mods to make work, which is pretty awful.)
"What is good in life, Raido?"
"To crush your enemies. To see them bubbled before you, and to hear the lamentations of their carebears."

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Athena Firefly

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Post 2018.05.20 01:00

Re: Ferox

Updated the original post to include 2 additional proposed fits: one PvE for missions and one PvP with blasters. Please review and comment on the fits! (=

Hirmuolio Pine wrote:You missed one cardinal sin that the PvE fit commits: it mixes buffer tank (shield extender) with active tank. Swap the shield extender for boost amplifier, large shield booster for a medium shield booster (note: Pithum C-type is only ~37 mil so that would be decent upgrade to install). This will free up fitting room to fit a command burst. It still has a bit low tank. With TH/KIN hardeners against Serpentis it repairs 128 EHP/s sustained (202 EHP/s for 4 min) while active tanked hurricane repairs 177 EHP/s stable (passive tank hurricane gets 315 EHP/s peak regen).

Oh and the hardeners! That ship should almost never fit adaptive invuln field. Just put some pair of damage specific hardeners and tell in notes to swap hardeners to fit incoming damage.

Thanks for your input!
The fit was copied directly from the wiki as-is, where it seems someone a while back (when the Ferox apparently got an additional mid slot?) went through and just added a LSE to every existing fit. So someone else's mistake. :lol:
The new proposed fit has booster+boost amplifier, DCU and 2 specific hardeners, and will also have a note about swapping hardeners to fit the mission.
However, I do not agree with your suggestion about adding deadspace modules to the fit. This is a T1 hull, and those should only ever have meta levels 0-5 on them in terms of modules. When the price of a single module starts to come close to the cost of the hull itself (or even exceed it), then I would say it's time to rethink the fit entirely! ^_^
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Erwin Madelung

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Post 2018.05.27 19:57

Re: Ferox

As you are already putting work into this please please streamline the FCC Ferox and the NSC Ferox. After your changes they are the same except the ammunition (if I haven't missed anything). So let's please stop to use different names. As we as the uni use the FCC/NSC Ferox as fleet fits I would suggest that you delete the current Fleet Ferox fit. Altough the Fleet Ferox fit (tankier but no cap booster) is certainly good for some situations so would be many other small variations I always prefer to keep the list of fits short.
I would suggest to evaluate in the T2 FCC/NSC fit if it is preferable to drop the Drone Link Augmentor in favour to change the MWD to restrained. The drone range without Augmentor is already 60km. The main purpose of the drones is to fight off light tackle. (Of course you will sometimes use them to bring some additional dps to the primary but it's not their main function and for most scenarios 60km should be enough.)
Check out the FCC Ferox Command Burst fit too. It has two invuls fitted which leads to more fitting space. There you could fit the resttrained MWD and something in the utility high. The fit has a bit less EHP before heat and a bit more after heat. And of course reps are more efficient on it.

For the PvE mission fit: I was surprised how good the stats look on the paper. Just note that deadspace hardeners are really a good idea. Gist X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field are around 10m. Thermal are similar. Expl are usually even cheaper. Only for EM you usually want to use T2. (Note that the X-type are usually even cheaper than A,B,C because the get farmed in SovNull.)
Hirmuolio's suggestion might be good too. It is not so unual in PvE to have the fitting cost more than the ship. The question is more if you don't better move to another hull if you are willing to spend more isk.
Futher consider a passive regen fit:
SPOILER WARNING!
[Ferox, Serpentis Mission PvE - Passive Regen]

Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Gist X-Type Thermal Dissipation Field
Gist X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
10MN Afterburner II

250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
[Empty High slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I


Hornet II x5


Iridium Charge M x1000
Antimatter Charge M x1000
Javelin M x1000
Spike M x1000
Optimal Range Script x1
Tracking Speed Script x1

The peak regen is 353 EHP/s with damage profile set to NPC Mission Gallente Federation. (I am never sure what to set it for missions but it is therm/kin and that is what the hardeners are chosen for there atm). If you use the same shiny hardeners on the active fit you have 65 EHP/s passive regen anyways + 390 EHP/s through the repper but only around 90 EHP/s are sustained.
Those are only general considerations. Best way to really find a good Ferox PvE fit would be to really run some missions in it and tweak the fit. I neither know how much tank you really need nor if you would need to keep the AB running.
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Eadrom Vintarus

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Post 2018.05.29 05:06

Re: Ferox

The "NSC Ferox" *is* the FCC Ferox. AFAIK, the "NSC" prefix came about because of an effort to incorporate it into a new QRF doctrine.
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Raido Kudonen

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Post 2018.05.29 12:36

Re: Ferox

The NSC fit precedes the FCC fit by a number of years, actually. We were using those Feroxes when I first joined the NSC, and apparently had been for a while before that.
"What is good in life, Raido?"
"To crush your enemies. To see them bubbled before you, and to hear the lamentations of their carebears."

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Eadrom Vintarus

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Post 2018.05.30 05:46

Re: Ferox

I keep forgetting the NSC has a ton of "reship" named fits in Fleet-Up/wiki that we don't really use anymore. The current iteration of the NSC has heavily aligned with the BLAP and FCC fits.
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Want to know how to get involved at the Null Sec Campsus? Contact me on any E-UNI slack, via forum PM, or in-game to learn more!

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Budda Sereda

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Post 2018.05.30 14:18

Re: Ferox

I'd like to mention comment on
As you are already putting work into this please please streamline the FCC Ferox and the NSC Ferox.

The goal of Fitting Department initiative is not to unify all fits, but make sure that Wiki has proper fits that cover 70-80% of major use cases. We are not trying to advertise or unify E-Uni doctrines. Also, we are not going to unify fleet-up fits: there are way too many in use by different campuses for reshipping and other needs. I do agree there is value to of unifying them, but that is out of the public conversation regarding officially recommended typical fits.

I would suggest to evaluate in the T2 FCC/NSC fit if it is preferable to drop the Drone Link Augmentor in favour to change the MWD to restrained. The drone range without Augmentor is already 60km. The main purpose of the drones is to fight off light tackle. (Of course you will sometimes use them to bring some additional dps to the primary but it's not their main function and for most scenarios 60km should be enough.)

In fact, I do agree that drones range is not a big deal and with slight optimization, we can fit Command Burst module which is going to benefit fleet much more than extra drones range:
SPOILER WARNING!
[Ferox, MWD 250mm ShieldBuff, Links reactor]

Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Reactor Control Unit II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II

250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
Information Command Burst II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Warrior II x5


Javelin M x1000
Spike M x1000
Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M x1000
Federation Navy Thorium Charge M x1000
Federation Navy Tungsten Charge M x1000
Nanite Repair Paste x150
Navy Cap Booster 400 x25
Sensor Optimization Charge x300

Any concerns about that?

PvE fit with an active shield tank has only 2 min cap, which is quite low. It may work in some cases, but I'd refrain from posting that. Especially, because fit with passive regen looks much better.
Posted fit with passive regen.

Also posted Solo Blasters fit.

Thanks all!
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Adrien Claremont

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Post 2018.05.30 15:50

Re: Ferox

The main reason why the command burst module wasn’t included in the mainline fit was because of the additional training time needed to fit it. On top of that, they don’t stack so you don’t need everyone to have it. Those people who have T2 command bursts likely know enough to adjust their fit to use one.

As for why the drone link? What else would you put there? It is filling a spare slot more than anything, but it does allow additional DPS on targets at range if needed, and adds both DPS (when drones apply) and drone range to low skilled pilots.
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2018.05.30 22:55

Re: Ferox

Adrien Claremont wrote:The main reason why the command burst module wasn’t included in the mainline fit was because of the additional training time needed to fit it. On top of that, they don’t stack so you don’t need everyone to have it. Those people who have T2 command bursts likely know enough to adjust their fit to use one.

As for why the drone link? What else would you put there? It is filling a spare slot more than anything, but it does allow additional DPS on targets at range if needed, and adds both DPS (when drones apply) and drone range to low skilled pilots.

The first thing we don't consider here SPs limitation. Yes, in E-Uni reality we can't have many pilots who train Command Bursts, even less with T2. Yet, T1 modules are easier to fit than T2, and training time for that is not really so long.

Yeah, I agree that we don't need Command Burst on EACH BC. But I'd argue that 6 is a healthy number: 3 for shields, 2 for skirmish (speed, agility), 1 information. Good option would be to double the number for redundancy in case of losing ships. This puts us the fleet of 12. Yeah, if you have 30 Feroxes, you probably don't really need every of them to have links, but what is a good alternative?

Extra 20km range for small drones which you are going to lose after the very first engagement? Raido brought the example that in case of structure busing you can use bouncer drones and extra 20km can help... so can help links.

An alternative to drone range (again, Raido's suggestion) is neuts, but Feroxes are supposed to fight at range and I'd argue that extra speed is better that neuting capabilities: you should aim to stay at range, not compensate for piloting/navigational mistakes.

I guess all this can be put into notes for the fit...?
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