BLAP Caracal Mastership - IV

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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.08.12 13:12

BLAP Caracal Mastership - IV

4th in a series of learning how to fly long range doctrine in general and BLAP Caracal in particular.

Quick fleet summary: we killed almost nothing, but did have content, chance to practice and kill things, though we were not able to capitalize on that due to in some case low number, in another case due to mistakes. See more details below.

We had 12 people at the peak. 2 scouts (Ceptor+quick atron), 2 logies, 7 DDs and 1 Keres (myself).
SPOILER WARNING!
Ashley Sokolov
Atticus Vex
Budda Sereda
DonkeyPunch Udan
Jyo Cbip
Revlyk
Sophia Canarius
Trevor Grambling
Vors Voorhorian
Z0X Ambrye
fatfluck Amatin
gaheris Anninen
Gaheris needed to drop as soon we approached Black Rise.

First we tried to bait one 'famous' Recon Trapper who often flies in Brarel: Alice P Liddell. Gaheris had point on his Caracal and tried to bait him, but Alice did not take the bait.

On the way to Black Rise we had a flashy Impairor jumping into us and because I had a point on a Keres I was able to lock him:

(02:55:44) Vlillirier
Impairor +0.03m

Shame,... but why not killing flashy? Even though it is a rookie ship.

In Nennamaila we spotted a fight on Akidagi gate, tried to 3rd party it. But were slow setting up and while we landed on grid everything run away into Akidagi. There were quite a big forces for our 6 Caracal+2 Osprey fleet so we did not follow.

Quite soon later we found a small gang of Lachesis, 3 Cynabals, VNI, and ENI. They were flashy originally. We thought they will engage us, but they did not. I decided to engage them on our own and while we positioned the fleet their suspect timer expired... I offered and they accepted the fight at planet 1.

I got a scout on the planet to report us opponent position, they were at 100km from the POCO originally, I warped DD at 70 from the office (so I will be in point range with Keres) and asked logies to warp at 40 so they will be on the opposite side.

Additional thing I asked scout to not engage in the very beginning: he would be killed first. I wanted to push 1-2 opponents from the grid first and later try to land a point on one of ships before they run away.

We did not warp synchronously but eventually landed at right positions. Unfortunately, till we landed those guys were 200km off. Quite soon they landed just on top of our logies... Originally I thought they had BMs, but most likely they just warped to POCO at 40km as well.
Somehow, they were not able to hold and break logies, we approached, primaried VNI, who pulled distance, later we switched to ENI - same....

We were applying damage very well to a primary.. but could not break before they pull the range.

We lost Atron during the engagement.
Atron -1.23m
I forgot to ask him to stay at range early in the fight so we have another tackle closer to the end... small ships I guess was pretty much alphaed from the grid.

Somehow it happened that our fleet was not anchoring. I consider that was due to few problems:
1. Anchor (myself in Keres) was too quick for the fleet to catch-up, even though I planned to reduce my speed to match with the fleet, yet I was too quick to align.
2. Some pilots (I assume, due to inexperience) did not anchor or did not turn the MWD on.
3. Logies did not have an anchor at all.

Due to this, opponent made few other good warp-ins caught and killed myself with no logies support.
Keres -46.85m
I called Vors to take control but stayed on grid and they did not touch my capsule.

Opponents made another good warp-in and landed on top of 1 of logies, while 2nd was quite far away. When we lost both logies I decided to call scatter: why feeding kills once there are no way to make a kill?

Osprey -20.55m
Osprey -10.4m

Another lesson I learn is that FC should be in a mainline ship, it is really hard to have a feeling what's going on if you fly a very different ship.

We tried to reship in Ichoriya, but Akidagi gate in Nennamaila was camped by a dozen of ships (including Gilas and ceptors), shortly after quite a few pilots decided to drop the fleet.
Here Trevor lost his capsule:
Capsule -17.65m
@Trevor: how did that happen? I can't imagine Caracal could lock you so quickly...?

I spotted a gate camp in Tama, but we already had no number to engage them so we turned us back to home

On the way back Jyo found a Catalyst so we get another kill:
Catalyst +3.87m

I can't complain much about the lack of content:
1. We caught few small solo targets, while few escaped.
2. Yet, our number was really low to compete with small gangs we saw.

Overall, it was good learning experience. Hope you guys enjoy it.

P.S. I feel that few new pilots did have some difficulties following my commands on time. Sorry for that, this is about a balance: if I run fleet very slowly experienced pilots will just get bored, so I tried to maintain healthy balance between helping newbros and keeping vets engaged. I'm sure you guys will learn and next fleets will go better.

P.P.S. Please feel in the FCC feedback form to help me getting a better FC: https://goo.gl/forms/W6OTiwPMD2Lu1lmL2

P.P.P.S. Next week I will be Arty Thrashers, at the same time (https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 6&t=106008). Should be very fun.
Join in-game "Budda's Fleet" channel for impromptu activities and quick updates on my future fleets.
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.08.12 13:18

Re: BLAP Caracal Mastership - IV

Separate thing I want to mention about having a Keres in a fleet: was good to be able to catch things in 40km range from the gate. The only thing it would need a bit higher scan resolution, though that is more roaming aspect, rather than needs of BLAP Caracal doctrine.
Join in-game "Budda's Fleet" channel for impromptu activities and quick updates on my future fleets.
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Ashley Sokolov

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Post 2017.08.12 19:16

Re: BLAP Caracal Mastership - IV

On logi side few things went wrong:
I made one critical mistake of not putting my safeties to yellow, this disrupted capchain leaving my logi partner behind. It took me too long to figure out why.
I personally have newer flew logi in Caracal fleet, anchor and designated logi squad commander would be very useful.
We also had too little logi, ratio was DD:logi was 4:1 and with just two logi, after one of us went under fire I couldn't hold him up and this mean that latter I was essentially useless.

With one additional logi and a logi commander (would would remind me about yellow safety) this fight could have gone completely different.

Small inconsistency in the AAR is that scatter order was given before second logi was lost.
It is also quite possible that I could have saved my Ospray. I again made a mistake and selected Planet I (planet which near we were fighting on) while trying to scatter. I have canceled this order and changed my scatter point but this meant I got pointed and lost the ship. I can't recall what is Caracal's align time but it is possible that this could have happen regardless of my mistake.
Last edited by Ashley Sokolov on 2017.08.14 00:06, edited 1 time in total.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. [...]
~ Bene Gesserit "Litany Against Fear"
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Yuri Levnik

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Post 2017.08.12 20:27

Re: BLAP Caracal Mastership - IV

I've had similar bad experiences flying a pair of cap chain logi. As soon as one pilot is out of position, warps off to escape aggro, gets jammed, blows up, etc... you lose your entire logi wing. Further, the second pilot usually caps out and is left on grid, helpless and unable to warp away.

We ran BLAP Vexors last week and had two logi pilots, so I asked them to ship into Exequrors, which are the "cap stable" (kind of) armor logi cruisers. That actually worked out very well for us. The exeqs push just as much repair as Augorors and our logi buddies were able to provide solid reps for the fleet. I think there's a lot to be said for flying cap stable logi for 2 person logi wings, though the Scythe is an incredible hassle to fit. Here's one you could try:
SPOILER WARNING!
[Scythe, Solitude Scythe T1 v3]
Mark I Compact Capacitor Power Relay
Mark I Compact Capacitor Power Relay
Mark I Compact Capacitor Power Relay
Mark I Compact Power Diagnostic System
Damage Control I

50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
Large Shield Extender II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Hobgoblin I x1
Hammerhead I x4

Nanite Repair Paste x12
Navy Cap Booster 400 x38

You still really can't fly just one logi pilot since they will get primaried and they can't repair themself.

<3 logi!
Yuri
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Jyo Cbip

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Post 2017.08.12 22:17

Re: BLAP Caracal Mastership - IV

Thanks for the fleet, was fun flying scout as always.

One suggestion is to involve your scouts more in the FC role in an engagement like the Cynabal gang fight. I was on grid and relaying info as best I could, but the situation was always changing. I was unaware of your tactical intention- If I had known what kind of warp ins you wanted on that gang, I could have been calling out warp ranges and bounce points in a much more fast and responsive way than you were able to by interpreting my info and translating that into action. Also, being in an inty I could have maneuvered to get you a warp in that was not between the POCO and the gang. Please don't see this as a slight on your FC-ing ability, I just know how difficult it is to visualize and respond to such a fast-moving gang when not on grid. I was very aware that the info I was giving you was not always adequate in this engagement, but I could not improve it without knowing what plan was in the works.

Of course, this kind of flying relies on having confidence in your scouts to have some knowledge of FC-ing (not always advisable in the Uni :D ). One of the reasons why I think it's great for people interested in FCing to scout first, and continue scouting when not FCing.


EDIT: Almost forgot to mention, I went solo roaming after the fleet. After blapping a Maulus in a large plex in Brarel, the pilot we were trying to bait earlier landed on grid in a Curse! I got away easily, but I'd love to figure out a technique to bait and destroy them. They seem most eager to go after solo frigates.
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Decklin Quark Reiger

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Post 2017.08.13 11:14

Re: BLAP Caracal Mastership - IV

Jyo Cbip wrote:One suggestion is to involve your scouts more in the FC role in an engagement like the Cynabal gang fight. I was on grid and relaying info as best I could, but the situation was always changing. I was unaware of your tactical intention- If I had known what kind of warp ins you wanted on that gang, I could have been calling out warp ranges and bounce points in a much more fast and responsive way than you were able to by interpreting my info and translating that into action. Also, being in an inty I could have maneuvered to get you a warp in that was not between the POCO and the gang. Please don't see this as a slight on your FC-ing ability, I just know how difficult it is to visualize and respond to such a fast-moving gang when not on grid. I was very aware that the info I was giving you was not always adequate in this engagement, but I could not improve it without knowing what plan was in the works.

Of course, this kind of flying relies on having confidence in your scouts to have some knowledge of FC-ing (not always advisable in the Uni :D ). One of the reasons why I think it's great for people interested in FCing to scout first, and continue scouting when not FCing.


This is excellent feedback - I'd really recommend any FC that hasn't spent much time scouting to do so .. and also to really build up a good level of trust in your regular scouts - scouts can do a LOT to help in these tactical moments!
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.08.14 15:28

Re: BLAP Caracal Mastership - IV

Thanks for feedback guys. I do believe we can consider getting logies into Scythes if we have 2 logies only. Logy Anchor - looks like a requirement indeed, unless logies should also anchor-up on DD anchor (could be the case in some frigate fleets where logies optimal is 10km).

Regarding what Jyo wrote:
In that particular fight, it was the case that situation was changing rapidly. And it was really hard to make the best choice. I feel I rushed a little bit by making a warp-in. But I did have a feeling that I don't understand what's going on. I already had cases when based on poor/inprecise information I make a mistake so decided to warp to the grid to understand that better.

And Jyo: I do trust you, but have not thought about asking you to take control a warp-in or to assist more in the engagement. For sure that sounds reasonable. Not all scouts can do this well or do this at all, but I am sure you can.

2you Jyo and many other who joins my fleets: unless we are in a fight or have any serious sort of combat comms, I do encourage EVERYBODY to say 'check-check: FC, I have an idea' or something similar. I will either ask to hold or higher probably just ask you to share it and we all will learn and perform a bit better. Also, this will make fleet more engaging.
Warning: not all FCs will be happy if you start doing this, so same as FC should know his team, especially scouts, logies, you should know your FC.
Join in-game "Budda's Fleet" channel for impromptu activities and quick updates on my future fleets.
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.08.14 15:36

Re: BLAP Caracal Mastership - IV

Jyo Cbip wrote:Thanks for the fleet, was fun flying scout as always.
EDIT: Almost forgot to mention, I went solo roaming after the fleet. After blapping a Maulus in a large plex in Brarel, the pilot we were trying to bait earlier landed on grid in a Curse! I got away easily, but I'd love to figure out a technique to bait and destroy them. They seem most eager to go after solo frigates.


Need to think how to keep a point under a neut pressure I guess? My first thought is about another Curse or a nuetting Stratios.
But to keep things cheaper a frigate with many small cap boosters?
Does his curse equipped with point or scram?
I believe that guys would have an expensive pod as well so we need an instalocker ready to warp in.

@Jyo: what if we organize a fleet on Thursday, 3:00 and try to get him down? Anybody up? Let's do it guys!
Join in-game "Budda's Fleet" channel for impromptu activities and quick updates on my future fleets.

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