[Fleet] BLAP Talwars visit renter space

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Decklin Quark Reiger

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Post 2017.06.15 21:20

[Fleet] BLAP Talwars visit renter space

FCC Feedback form:
https://goo.gl/forms/W6OTiwPMD2Lu1lmL2

Again, we got a good fleet composition, with 2 cepters, 2 dictors, 1 Hyena, and everyone else in a Talwar:

SPOILER WARNING!
Akiri Senso
Almasy Seifer
B'aldrick Aivoras (Dictor)
Barbara Blast
Burak Oz (Intercepter)
Croz Mastecham
Decklin Quark Reiger (FC)
DonBasuno Ichosira
Gatt2111 (Dictor)
Hideo Date
Jax Renalard (Hyena)
Maximus Hert
Oh' Leeador
Pollux Terrentius
Rebulah Conundrum
Tika On
Trillian Ituin
Troven Smalvard (Intercepter)
Union Pivo (Secondary DD anchor)
Veever Yvormes
Wokum
Xana McBash
Zana Fehrnah
ashahara



Veever did some scanning for us ahead of the fleet, and found a couple connections through to null sec.

Our first connection took us into the Omist Region, via L-AS00

At the time, there was a lot of ratting activity in the region, but as we travelled through, we encountered exclusively carriers and supers.

In an act of spite, we killed one of the bubbles guarding a pocket where a couple Nyx's were ratting:

Kills and Losses
(19:07:16) M9-FIB
Mobile Large Warp Disruptor II +22.04m

After that, we took the wormhole back home, and tried our second connection, which took us to 2-YO2K in Perrigen Falls.

Here, we toured around the southern half of the map, again not finding anything much.

We did try to gank a Tengu in 2AUL-X, but hardly touched his shield tank, which he could sustain for days, based on his last loss: https://zkillboard.com/kill/57429599/

Unfortunately, we lost one cepter, and our Hyena here:

(20:03:56) 2AUL-X
Talwar -7.74m
Hyena -30.64m
Stiletto -31.65m

Oh'Leeador managed to snag this pod which had landed in our bubbles:

(20:08:23) 2AUL-X
Capsule +55.58m

Once we knew his previous fit, I knew we had nowhere near enough damage to break him, and there was no point sticking around, so we carried on down the pipe, desperately hoping to find some ratting cruisers or battleships.

While we were waiting for intel from Troven, a gang of T3Ds landed on top of us. I had not been paying attention to local, and didn't have a scout behind us, but thankfully it was a very very good match-up for us.

It turns out they were spider-tanking, which meant that when we focused our volleys, we killed each T3D before it could catch any reps at all.

There was one confessor early on that managed to catch reps, when our missiles were staggered badly, so we switched to another target, and started killing things very quickly. Early in the fight, I intentionally killed their cepters, so that they couldn't pin down our fragile Talwars.

At the end of the fight, one of their confessors nearly escaped, but Troven was able to hold point on him, while the Talwars pulled back within range, and we volleyed him once everyone was within striking distance.

(20:28:19) O-QKSM
Svipul +114.84m
Talwar -14.03m
Ares +29.03m
Confessor +94.37m
Crow +38.81m
Heretic -90.03m
Confessor +93.56m
Confessor +93.75m
Confessor +87.38m
Confessor +93.87m

At this point, the fleet morale picked up considerably, after our long and previously fruitless search, it was really great to get a fight.

After that, we headed back home, through 2-YO2k. Unfortunately, Gatt's pod got caught on the way out. On the plus side, Troven snuck in on a Dominix kill, while we were busy:

(20:44:04) 2-YO2K
Capsule -17m
Dominix +215.93m


Stats
ISK Destroyed: 939,162,231.97
ISK Lost: 191,090,892.4
ISK Delta: 748,071,339.57
Efficiency: 83.093%
Last edited by Decklin Quark Reiger on 2017.06.18 21:25, edited 2 times in total.
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Decklin Quark Reiger

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Post 2017.06.15 21:20

Re: [Fleet] BLAP Talwars visit renter space

In terms of lessons learned,


I think for one, the sheer value of having good options of where to go hunting is pretty key. It's a time-consuming job, finding wormholes out to null, and knowing which areas are more likely to have carriers and supers vs cruisers and battleships will be helpful. Something to learn more about.

In general, we did a good job of focusing our volleys - we practiced on gate rats several times throughout the fleet.

For the Tengu, thank you Xana for pulling up the pilot's previous Tengu loss, so we could confirm that "waiting for his cap charges to run out" wasn't going to be a thing. I suspect that with Tengus in general, they will often be fit this way, and without heavy neut pressure, we're just not going to break him. Certainly not in a low dps, high-alpha doctrine like Talwars.

Great discipline on the fight vs the T3Ds guys - that was an ideal engagement for us, and you did great to focus damage on the targets as I called them. Nicely done.

See you next time!

-Decklin
Last edited by Decklin Quark Reiger on 2017.06.18 21:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Troven Smalvard

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Post 2017.06.16 05:27

Re: [Fleet] BLAP Talwars visit renter space

Just going to leave this here,

Scoot: see thing, tackle thing, ask questions later. :salute:

potato + 216m



(+ maybe don't die or FC gets angry is the part of advanced training)
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.06.16 06:21

Re: [Fleet] BLAP Talwars visit renter space

Numbers look great, looking forward to hearing a full story!
Join in-game "Budda's Fleet" channel for impromptu activities and quick updates on my future fleets.
My FC career: https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/User:Budda_Sereda
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Xana McBash

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Post 2017.06.16 08:04

Re: [Fleet] BLAP Talwars visit renter space

Just leaving the BR here:

http://evf-eve.com/services/brcat/?s=51 ... &e=126&t=e

(I'll edit in more stuff after FC gets around to writing the whole AAR)
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B'aldrick Aivoras

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Post 2017.06.18 20:36

Re: [Fleet] BLAP Talwars visit renter space

Really enjoyed the fleet as a rookie 'dictor pilot - FC was in command throughout the fleet though all the fleet should keep hitting the D-scan button! No one saw the Confessor fleet - FC remained calm and comms were good so we held the field.

Here is the edited version of the fleet - would welcome feedback on how to fly a interdictor please!

https://youtu.be/YxZ7zxkPXLM
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Graduate | Assistant Orientation Manager | Senior Personnel Ofiicer

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Neonen Enderas (Biomassed 2017.06.23)

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Post 2017.06.19 04:47

Re: [Fleet] BLAP Talwars visit renter space

Just one question, why do some Talwars apparently have Hyperspatials and some don't?
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Did someone say "Stealthbomber"? Explosions? And ECM? I'm in! Let's blow shit up! ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

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Decklin Quark Reiger

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Post 2017.06.19 09:43

Re: [Fleet] BLAP Talwars visit renter space

Lol Neonen, I knew you'd come to troll me about that ;)

Since you're obviously listening in on the previous discussion about Talwars on LSC slack, I suspect you already know the answer, but I'll put it here anyway.

The Uni's BLAP Talwar is a modified version of a Waffles doctrine. The Waffles version is aimed at pilots with near-perfect fitting skills, who are able to fit two T2 ballistic control units in the lows, and still reach out to 65 km+ with faction missiles, even with the hyperspatial rig.

*If* a fleet was able to *all* fit the hyperspatial rig, or would increase the speed that we can travel while flying this hit-and-run doctrine. So, some of us upgraded our Talwars that way, since it's still in keeping with the doctrine, and in some ideal future, could be useful when a full fleet is able to have them.

Obviously, the fleet will warp at the speed of its slowest member, so until the whole fleet can use them, they are of limited value.
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Neonen Enderas (Biomassed 2017.06.23)

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Post 2017.06.19 11:58

Re: [Fleet] BLAP Talwars visit renter space

Decklin Quark Reiger wrote:Lol Neonen, I knew you'd come to troll me about that ;)
If in doubt, denounce as troll. :)

Since you're obviously listening in on the previous discussion about Talwars on LSC slack, I suspect you already know the answer, but I'll put it here anyway.
Sorry but no, I mostly don't read your Slacks since I agreed to not drive you into public rooms because you felt like being spied upon.

The Uni's BLAP Talwar is a modified version of a Waffles doctrine. The Waffles version is aimed at pilots with near-perfect fitting skills, who are able to fit two T2 ballistic control units in the lows, and still reach out to 65 km+ with faction missiles, even with the hyperspatial rig.

*If* a fleet was able to *all* fit the hyperspatial rig, or would increase the speed that we can travel while flying this hit-and-run doctrine. So, some of us upgraded our Talwars that way, since it's still in keeping with the doctrine, and in some ideal future, could be useful when a full fleet is able to have them.

Obviously, the fleet will warp at the speed of its slowest member, so until the whole fleet can use them, they are of limited value.

I am aware that the BLAP doctrines are spin-off of old Waffle doctrines, but wasn't sure if you're aware of the warp speed problem. As you are, this leads to the question as of why you went for a most likely usless rig? As you said yourself, it's a dream having all pilots fly exactly this fit. Also your fit trades range for a bit more alpha while the BLAP upgraded fit simply goes for more pew while keeping the range the same.
So your fit ends up with a rig that does most likely nothing unless you don't fleetwarp (you shouldn't do that, if you end up in a pipe bomb, die like a proper fleet and don't lemming) and a range that's below your lock range.

For number comparison:
Neonen has 8.6 million SP in Missiles with all support skills to IV or V (most of them to V, just not the range projections lol). That's more than the usual Talwar pilot will probably have in your fleet combined. And I still end up with a missile range shorter than my lock range.
So I simply go for an All V char, this one barely gets above the lock range of 69.8 km with a potential missile range of 72.8 km. With, again, a most likely useless rig.

The two BLAP fits give you a leeway of ~14km. So generally, if you can lock it, you can shoot it.

So your alpha is higher compared to the BLAP fits, but applying said alpha gets a bit hard due to the lack of range. The tank differene is negligble. The warpspeed difference doesn't exist in most cases or doesn't add anything. If you know what you're doing and all people can use your fit, I'd go for yours. Because it also means you have a reliable range and application added to the speed. In case of the uni? Not so sure, I'd stick to the BLAP fits as they exist for a reason. Also made by Waffles btw. ;)
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Did someone say "Stealthbomber"? Explosions? And ECM? I'm in! Let's blow shit up! ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

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Decklin Quark Reiger

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Post 2017.06.19 12:35

Re: [Fleet] BLAP Talwars visit renter space

When I made the fit with the hyperspatial, there was only the one Blap fit, so I improvised an upgraded version.

When you commented disparagingly about the hyperspatial on the alumni slack a few weeks ago, you referenced the LSC Slack .. I'm not just randomly throwing that out there ;)

I'll take a look at the BLAP doctrine again to see the upgraded fit for future, and see if it's genuinely better than the one with the hyperspatial :)

Edit: it's not better, just easier to fit.
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Neonen Enderas (Biomassed 2017.06.23)

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Post 2017.06.19 14:24

Re: [Fleet] BLAP Talwars visit renter space

Decklin Quark Reiger wrote:When you commented disparagingly about the hyperspatial on the alumni slack a few weeks ago, you referenced the LSC Slack .. I'm not just randomly throwing that out there ;)
As I pointed out above, I don't think the trade off is worth it. And yes, I stopped reading most of it a while ago, as I said as well.

I'll take a look at the BLAP doctrine again to see the upgraded fit for future, and see if it's genuinely better than the one with the hyperspatial :)

Edit: it's not better, just easier to fit.
If you ignore the part about warpspeed/missile range/SP, yes. Then it's "just easier to fit".
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Did someone say "Stealthbomber"? Explosions? And ECM? I'm in! Let's blow shit up! ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

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Decklin Quark Reiger

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Post 2017.06.19 17:05

Re: [Fleet] BLAP Talwars visit renter space

Neonen Enderas wrote:If you ignore the part about warpspeed/missile range/SP, yes. Then it's "just easier to fit".


I guess you have a point :)

I'm by no means suggesting that my fit is ideal - only explaining the reasoning behind it :)
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