[AAR] Magic Moas: "Capitals are the best kind of flattery"

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Breeze One

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Post 2017.06.16 11:38

Re: [AAR] Magic Moas: "Capitals are the best kind of flattery"

Thanks very much everyone for the feedback :)

Great insights, and spot on observations on where we can improve. Really appreciate it! Last time we fought properly you guys helped us identify our issues then, and we (mostly) fixed those ahead of this fight. Now we have a few more kinks to iron out, but we're getting there :D

Will see you in space Cookies!
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Zeerse Solaris

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Post 2017.06.16 11:44

Re: [AAR] Magic Moas: "Capitals are the best kind of flattery"

Your English is very good Sakul.

What you are seeing is our current class of FCs improving, as we expect people to move on, we go through cycles where people leave, and often a few individuals either move together or in a short space of time. And the cycle starts again.

We'll probably always have mostly newbro friendly doctrines because of our membership turnover and our purpose but that's ok.

When I'm on our roams I also enjoy are interchangeable friend/foe relationship we've got with Cookies, makes things interesting.
E-uni Teacher:: Apply to be a teacher
E-uni Mentor: Apply to be a mentor
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Trillian Ituin

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Post 2017.06.16 15:19

Re: [AAR] Magic Moas: "Capitals are the best kind of flattery"

Captain Cean wrote:Another Reason was that you guys didn't used your Benefits Cruisers against smaller Ships. Many People said our Signature was to small well that is not right our signature was only a Problem caue you guys made it one. Why can a Tornado oneshot Frigates while it have BS weapon ? Right cause of the Transversal (or because the frigate have none). Why the did you Guys ORBIT FRIGATES ? guys we had small weapons + webs we will always hit you, you where the Big boys this Fight. You orbitet Frigates that you webbed down to 50ms and then use your own speed against yourself. When you are the big ships on the field YOU are slow and easy to hit that means orbiting dont help at anyway to reduce the DMG that means you can just approach on your optimal. And this nearly complet negate our signature.

So Main Issu was some guys Broadcasted to late and used you own speed against yourself (application) .

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Spot on, Captain Cean! I didn't realize that I made the exact these two mistakes until reading your summary: orbiting the smaller opponent ships and broadcasting for rep too late. A lesson well learned.

Until next time 8)
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Cryptic Sharvas

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Post 2017.06.16 17:01

Re: [AAR] Magic Moas: "Capitals are the best kind of flattery"

I wonder if the splitting of DPS can be directly linked back to my mining AARs.

just a thought,
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Eleeyah Myrha

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Post 2017.06.19 13:35

Re: [AAR] Magic Moas: "Capitals are the best kind of flattery"

Wow, I learned a lot by reading this AAR.

This was one of my first fleet ops and while I did fly in one or two before, One was years ago, and the one I joined since I started playing again, was all about single target ganks, albeit our tackle was very reliable and netted us what felt like at least a dozen kills across various systems.

In this op, I flew the Thorax, not having the skills to command Caldari ships. As the snowflake I got immediately picked out as the primary target right off the bat - well, Thorax can do a ton of damage and are squishy enough to be spiked easily, I guess.
This did however mean, that I didn't get to take part in this fleet until Stage 3. That was really annoying, because I felt that I came for nothing and would've learned more just going solo PvPing.

At this point I would like to give my personal feedback to the FC: If I remember correctly, you didn't tell us to broadcast the moment everybody starts yellowboxing you. If I'm wrong, sorry, then it's all my fault for not paying attention.
But I am reasonably certain that you skipped the broadcasting explanation and especially, didn't share the picture that goes along with it. As a result of that, I wasn't actually able to learn anything of value from my death, until days later, when in another fleet the FC gave us that picture with the explanation. That had the effect that I realized, that I needed to pay attention to the amount of people yellowboxing me to broadcast, not the damage I'm already taking.
Again, if you did explain this, I'm sorry, I guess I was busy still fitting my ship.

Luckily, I managed to reship by Stage 3, was able to join the fight against the bling and even survived long enough to grab top damage against the Gila.
When the carrier landed, you told us to take out the fighters. I attempted to do that, but was utterly ineffective. I don't think I managed to land a single shot. Eventually I had to give up and try to hit something I could hurt. By that point we were folding and the fight was pretty much over.

What should I do against fighters? How do they behave and how can I exploit that behavior? How do I get my guns to hit fighters?.
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Laser Skaron

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Post 2017.06.19 13:57

Re: [AAR] Magic Moas: "Capitals are the best kind of flattery"

Eleeyah Myrha wrote:At this point I would like to give my personal feedback to the FC: If I remember correctly, you didn't tell us to broadcast the moment everybody starts yellowboxing you. If I'm wrong, sorry, then it's all my fault for not paying attention.


I think I was linking gifs/images at that stage and I might have skipped the yellowboxing one accidentally. Oops. That being said, the newbro speeches at the beginning of the fight are there to quickly bring new players up to speed. It is a 10 minute quick introduction and the format doesn't let us go in depth on many aspects. Some things will be forgotten and some things will be learned on the due to that.

Eleeyah Myrha wrote:When the carrier landed, you told us to take out the fighters. I attempted to do that, but was utterly ineffective. I don't think I managed to land a single shot. Eventually I had to give up and try to hit something I could hurt. By that point we were folding and the fight was pretty much over.

What should I do against fighters? How do they behave and how can I exploit that behavior? How do I get my guns to hit fighters?.


Well, jam and web them so you can apply your damage. Biggest problem there was our ECM pilot wasn't on comms at the time :(. Not sure how that happened, but it did...
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Eleeyah Myrha

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Post 2017.06.19 14:04

Re: [AAR] Magic Moas: "Capitals are the best kind of flattery"

Laser Skaron wrote:[...]
I think I was linking gifs/images at that stage and I might have skipped the yellowboxing one accidentally. Oops. That being said, the newbro speeches at the beginning of the fight are there to quickly bring new players up to speed. It is a 10 minute quick introduction and the format doesn't let us go in depth on many aspects. Some things will be forgotten and some things will be learned on the due to that.

[...]
Well, jam and web them so you can apply your damage. Biggest problem there was our ECM pilot wasn't on comms at the time :(. Not sure how that happened, but it did...


It's never too late to learn, and I did figure it out eventually, so not a wasted opportunity. I get that the newbro speech needs to be short, but is there maybe a prepared checklist the FCs can use? Imagine the frigates I could have helped kill with all the Thorax guns... XD

Okay, I guess the fighter thing was just a combination of me not knowing what to do, and bad luck. Oh well, another lesson learned.
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Breeze One

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Post 2017.06.19 14:17

Re: [AAR] Magic Moas: "Capitals are the best kind of flattery"

I believe Laser did link the GIF, but we didn't go over it in great detail verbally no. Apologies. Next time I'll try to go over that section in greater detail.

There is a checklist which I run through which does include this, however I'd been flying a lot of fleets without Logi prior to that one, and so I probably didn't give the Logi section the focus it deserved

Apologies about being popped early, and feeling like you missed out - sadly that's just the reality of fleets, especially when you're one of the squishier ships on field. If you are flying the doctrine fit, then I usually have ships available nearby (2-3 jumps) from where we were fighting, which can speed up reshipping.

And yes, if I'm calling a target, you should also be using your scram/web on it, unless FC instructs otherwise
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.06.21 04:55

Re: [AAR] Magic Moas: "Capitals are the best kind of flattery"

Captain Cean wrote:Another Reason was that you guys didn't used your Benefits Cruisers against smaller Ships. Many People said our Signature was to small well that is not right our signature was only a Problem caue you guys made it one. Why can a Tornado oneshot Frigates while it have BS weapon ? Right cause of the Transversal (or because the frigate have none). Why the did you Guys ORBIT FRIGATES ? guys we had small weapons + webs we will always hit you, you where the Big boys this Fight. You orbitet Frigates that you webbed down to 50ms and then use your own speed against yourself. When you are the big ships on the field YOU are slow and easy to hit that means orbiting dont help at anyway to reduce the DMG that means you can just approach on your optimal. And this nearly complet negate our signature.

Good feedback!

Though, I don't understand what you mean under 'approach on your optimal'? Do you recommend to "keep range" at optimal (2.81km or 3km for L5 Blaster fit Moa)? In this case, if a target moves with 50m/s Moas will also move at 50m/s speed... but who really cares if Moa is not primaried. And if get primaries ... he will be webbed and it won't matter if he moves or stays...
Join in-game "Budda's Fleet" channel for impromptu activities and quick updates on my future fleets.
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Decklin Quark Reiger

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Post 2017.06.21 07:15

Re: [AAR] Magic Moas: "Capitals are the best kind of flattery"

Budda Sereda wrote:
Captain Cean wrote:... we had small weapons + webs we will always hit you, you where the Big boys this Fight. You orbitet Frigates that you webbed down to 50ms and then use your own speed against yourself. When you are the big ships on the field YOU are slow and easy to hit that means orbiting dont help at anyway to reduce the DMG that means you can just approach on your optimal. And this nearly complet negate our signature.

Good feedback!

Though, I don't understand what you mean under 'approach on your optimal'? Do you recommend to "keep range" at optimal (2.81km or 3km for L5 Blaster fit Moa)? In this case, if a target moves with 50m/s Moas will also move at 50m/s speed... but who really cares if Moa is not primaried. And if get primaries ... he will be webbed and it won't matter if he moves or stays...


Yes, keep at range at optimal will help the Moas d medium blasters apply better than orbit.

If the small target is close (500m) and trying to keep high angular velocity, then flying straight away from the target will help you track better.

If the target is trying to pull range, outside your optimal, then flying straight at them to get back in your optimal will help your blasters apply better, without giving you tracking issues.

Keep at range does both of the above.
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Captain Cean

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Post 2017.06.21 08:00

Re: [AAR] Magic Moas: "Capitals are the best kind of flattery"

Budda Sereda wrote:
Though, I don't understand what you mean under 'approach on your optimal'? Do you recommend to "keep range" at optimal (2.81km or 3km for L5 Blaster fit Moa)? In this case, if a target moves with 50m/s Moas will also move at 50m/s speed... but who really cares if Moa is not primaried. And if get primaries ... he will be webbed and it won't matter if he moves or stays...


Keep At range with your optimal. In this situation your movement dosnt care its just hurt you tracking if you move then you must. We had small guns that means we already hit you very well + Webbs. When your Fleet/ Ship is bigger and slower you dont try to reduce the dmg by movement cause its nearly impossible, you try to optimize your dmg And your tank (Heat Invus and Hardner when you are primary).
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