[LSC] Kiting Tristans!

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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.04.21 05:51

[LSC] Kiting Tristans!

AAR for fleet https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 6&t=104166

We formed up quite quickly, got 2 logies (Burst) around 12-14 Tristans, 1 Atron, and Federation Navy Comet (unless I'm mistaken)

Today we had quite a bit of content which matched really well our fleet composition.

Nothing really cool or special happened.

We had 2 scouts which is unusual. Reason is I often was in situation when T1 frigate dies trying to hold something big and my assumption was that 2 T1 frigates should not spook potential targets if those are T2 frigates or any destroyer/cruiser.
I believe that did work well.
Also I was calling fleet to jump before scouts get a point. I believe few times it ended up spooking targets so will probably not be doing so next time.

Roaming we were engaged by Rattlesnake with Garmur: we successfully escaped them.

The very beginning of the fleet we got a kill Thrasher in UPH https://zkillboard.com/kill/61710597/ +9.3M

After some roaming Scouts got for us Slasher https://zkillboard.com/kill/61711073/ +3.0M and Kestrel https://zkillboard.com/kill/61711092/ +8.2M in Martoh losing scouting Condor I believe before logies landed: https://zkillboard.com/kill/61711071/ -7.4

The best thing was kill of Impel in Kinakka: https://zkillboard.com/kill/61711229/ +283.1M :) - yeah... juicy!

He landed on the gate with us, jumped into Kinakka... and we pointed him before he was able to cloak. I believe it was a just inexperienced pilot. We were taking heavy shots from gate guns: Analiese bounced first, later I did: I did get reps from logies, but guns do hit really strong so even with logies frigates better bounce. This way you will reset gate-guns aggression and remove logies workload.
Some of us died:
https://zkillboard.com/kill/61711208/ -10.5 and https://zkillboard.com/kill/61711232/ -6.6M - strongly believe we should be able to avoid these loses. My assumption is that pilots saw logies landed their reps and assumed they will stand the gates fire. Problem is that Alpha sometimes is just too high.

Great fleet anyway I would say :)
Killed: 303.6M
Lost: 24.5

In 2 hours of the fleet, half pilots called for the night, so we came back and Jyo Cbip stepped up as FC for those who stayed and continued fights. While I'm writing the AAR they are still in roaming and keep getting kills! :)

On our way back we had non-flashy Thorax on the gate, but did not engage because we had only 6 Tristans and even kiting Thorax and having 2 frigates was something which I don't believe we would be able to take.

What was good:
- Kiting Tristans are quick to warp, align, hard to catch. We did not really meet something which could shoot us back (other than a RattleSnake, which we easily avoided), but I think Kiting ships have a big potential.
- We used 2-3 scouts checking systems in different directions: I believe this did allow us to do quick scouting

What could be better:
- Don't jump to a system until scout landed after the accellaration gate.
- Pick-up loot from killed ships: we could get around 25M from that Impel only. He did not have cargo but had some relatively expensive modules.
- We did not move very quickly especially in the beginning of the fleet: it was a brief lecture on fleet mechanics
- I got some other feedback during fleet, but don't remember details.
- Only now I realized that once we hid in a novice plex: all other than 1 ship which was faction frigate ... and he could be in danger as novice gate was camped.

Fun fleet! Thanks guys for joining! And thank you for sharing feedback and helping during fleet.

P.S. Jyo, please feel free to add your AAR here or post own one if you wish!

P.P.S. Whoever participated in the fleet, please feel in your feedback for FCC progress report: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 8&t=104019
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.04.21 05:54

Re: [LSC] Kiting Tristans!

I assume I could miss some loses from the fleet, so feel free to post here and add
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Sone Eto

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Post 2017.04.21 06:36

Re: [LSC] Kiting Tristans!

This was my first time in a fleet, first time in lowsec, first time drone kiting, and day 2 in Eve-Uni. Here is my newbie feedback:

Both FCs were great and I learned a lot. Saw how it important it is to stay with the fleet; if you have to scoop drones or miss a call, you better get it together quick. Knowing your optimal ranges and being able to get on target quick was also really important. Anticipating the FCs next call but not jumping the gun (or gate).

Also noticed how critical scouts are; this is the direction that I'd like to go so listening to them dance around systems and feed intel back to the FC quickly and concisely was a treat. I didn't quite understand the role of Vanguard, but I got some googling/wiki-ing to do on that. I also didn't expect the scouts to be as knowledgeable as they were. I imagined that they just feed back raw data, but instead saw something else. They knew the systems, the belts, the habits of other pilots, recognized several by name. They instantly knew which ships were potential targets and which were too much for our fleet to handle. That depth and street-smarts made them seem more like trusted advisors or assistant FCs than "just a scout" if that makes sense.

Ended up on 3 kills and had a great time; will definitely be doing this again. Thanks for fun, it was great flying with you folks! o7
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Infernal Fusion

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Post 2017.04.21 08:24

Re: [LSC] Kiting Tristans!

Thanks for running this fleet Budda, had fun.

I was in one of the Tristans that popped after we got the freighter, I put it down to inexperience because I should have been aligned and gone the second the target died :(

I also learnt a bit about choosing fights, it was kinda hard sitting in the plex whilst a fleet mate was getting wailed on outside but understand the fcs decision making process on the issue.

There were also an abundance of volunteers for scouts on this fleet (my first fleet last week we only had the one scout) and it was immediately apparent how much more information the FC has to deal with once you move beyond just one scout.

Looking forward to doing this again.
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Glasi Vookto

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Post 2017.04.21 09:30

Re: [LSC] Kiting Tristans!

Props for taking Hyperkittens out. I'll be lazy and copypasta from what I've said about the doctrine on other occasions so I won't have to type it again :D

"It is a very cheap and easy to fly and FC doctrine and is very good to learn fleet kiting in. I strongly advise new FCs to try it out."

"Hyperkittens is a great doctrine for harassing stuff and picking out targets of opportunity. Due to their speed and agility, as well as their drone damage giving them great freedom of movement, they can even easily engage even bigger and more powerful ships/fleets without having to commit. You can fly this doctrine very aggressively, if things go south and you feel you can't take it, just pull range and get out."

"It is not very good at engaging fast kitey comps though, as drones don't apply well to those you can't hold them down unless you have some of the Tristans fit scrams or webs and commit. They may also lose some bigger targets like Bcs and BSs that can MJD out from point range. They are also very vulnerable to smartbombs as well as their only dps comes from drones, so that's something to watch out for."

I had a comment about logi and support in Hyperkittens fleets, but I can't find it anymore, so I'll have to do it the hard way and type it down :D:

Logi has very limited use in this fleet as most of the time they will be outside of rep range. Given the speeds and dynamics at which fights usually take place, it will be very difficult for Bursts to keep in rep range of Tristans and vice-versa. Only scenarios I could think where logi could be useful is where you're gatecamping and you're engaging a non flashy or some of your Tristans have to commit into scram range to hold a bigger target down, but those are pretty niche I would say. For most fights, a more useful type of support would be damps. A couple of Mauluses sprinkled through the fleet can do wonders in terms of damage mitigation against ranged stuff like RLML Caracals and stuff without losing too much dps over the standard Tristan. Crucifiers can also be useful for damage mitigation, though Mauluses are probably better as they apply to any ship.
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Eadrom Vintarus

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Post 2017.04.21 09:48

Re: [LSC] Kiting Tristans!

Grrr. I had about 10 paragraphs typed up here that got eaten by forum login timeout. I will re-write them when I get home. >.>

WTB longer timeout on my session.
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Please let me know if any NSC hangar needs attention!

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Dune Barphsaq

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Post 2017.04.21 13:50

Re: [LSC] Kiting Tristans!

Eadrom Vintarus wrote:Grrr. I had about 10 paragraphs typed up here that got eaten by forum login timeout. I will re-write them when I get home. >.>

WTB longer timeout on my session.


usually when it does this it pops an error and says something like topic not found or something. The trick here is just to click submit again, and it almost always works. But when ever i am posting a long one like that I copy my whole box just in case so I can paste it back.
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Dune Barphsaq

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Post 2017.04.21 14:08

Re: [LSC] Kiting Tristans!

Budda, thanks for taking the fleet out it was a lot of fun.

I missed out on the first kill because my safety was set green for some unknown reason, too much time in station I guess. :lol:

You forgot to mention the time we were at a gate and a non flashy caracal jumped into us, and I think we all forgot we were in low sec, so we engaged. We all got away, I believe, but so did the caracal. For me it was thanks to logi, I got into low structure, but they held me. However I do agree with Glasi's point above about logi. Had we not had it I would have bounced sooner.

The fleet formup was quick, which was nice, but then we kind of got jumbled up with the fleet overview for people on their first fleet, which is totally awesome that we had them with us, I love it, but maybe if you had a checklist or something of stuff to go over for that it would have been smoother.

Good job, it was a blast o7
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Jyo Cbip

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Post 2017.04.21 17:21

Re: [LSC] Kiting Tristans!

Thanks for the fleet, always happy to scout. Thanks also to all who decided to stick around for my fleet-after-the-fleet.

Budda, there was one other engagement your AAR missed- a Hawk in Innia that was the last kill of the main fleet. I don't believe anyone died. He was rocket fit so scouts were able to pull range and still hold tackle.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/61711353/ +37M

The fleet I took out with those who wanted to keep roaming was mostly uneventful but we got a couple good kills. We had 11 pilots in fleet, all in kiting Tristans except for Xana scouting in an Atron and myself in a Condor. From Innia where Budda's fleet ended, we went to Nennamaila, where we didn't find any fights but avoided the retreating remnants of a cruiser/BS fleet with some good scouting and on-gate maneuvering.

We then went on to Old Man Star, with the FC half expecting to welp the fleet to smartbombing battleships. Instead, we found an Incursus in a novice plex.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/61711657/ +4.2M

We then set our destination to Stacmon, checking for targets in the systems along the way and in the Intaki/Brarel/Annancale and Dastryns/Iges/Covryn side routes. At some point we tried to bait a pair of Slicers into a plex with our scout/vanguard, which they wisely ignored.
Then, Xana found us a belt-ratting Vexor in Iges.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/61711818/ +17.8M

I ended the fleet at this point and pilots returned to LSC or Stacmon. Not the most exciting time of day to go roaming, but we got a couple decent kills, had some good fleet practice and didn't lose anyone.

edit:
Also, I agree with Dune that the new pilot pre-fleet speech could go a little smoother if it were standardized or there was a reference for the minimum FCs should cover. I know there are resources out there- powerpoints, GIFS, etc. I remember when I first joined Uni the NoP roams had this well covered. Are the materials compiled anywhere? I like FCing and definitely would be more confident in organizing fleets if I had those ready to go.
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Analiese Aubernet

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Post 2017.04.21 21:04

Re: [LSC] Kiting Tristans!

I have the materials and checklist for the speech I do, I could post them here or send them to someone if they're interested.
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Adrien Claremont

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Post 2017.04.22 07:52

Re: [LSC] Kiting Tristans!

Perhaps a standardised speech/check list in the FCC sub forum?
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Jyo Cbip

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Post 2017.04.22 23:36

Re: [LSC] Kiting Tristans!

Analiese Aubernet wrote:I have the materials and checklist for the speech I do, I could post them here or send them to someone if they're interested.


Can you please send them to me here or in game? Thanks.
I also like the idea of having them standardized and accessible in the FCC forum or maybe on the wiki.
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Xana McBash

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Post 2017.04.23 10:01

Re: [LSC] Kiting Tristans!

Overheat all the drones! ヽ(´▽`)/
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Analiese Aubernet

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Post 2017.04.23 16:30

Re: [LSC] Kiting Tristans!

I posted a thread in the FCC subforum, let me know if you have any feedback/criticisms.

https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=278&t=104235&start=0
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.04.23 22:53

Re: [LSC] Kiting Tristans!

All good feedback, agree with all.

Though, I do believe I will be still taking 2 logies with Tristans: do want to have an opportunity to engage on the gates.

And about check-list - makes sense, thank you guys!
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