Vagabond

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Jor'Ox

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Post 2018.05.24 16:34

Vagabond

After reviewing the Vagabond fittings on the Wiki, it seems that some changes have been made that effect the fit. Most notably is the addition of 'Assault Damage Control' modules. I have gone through and added these to each fitting. In the case of 'Small Gang' & 'Small Gang Dual Prop', EFFA Compact Assaults were used instead of T2. And in the case of the former, 'Scout' autocannons replaced the T2 variant. I cannot speak to the current valitdity of the roles. But seemingly a pvp set-up would want the burst defense of ADC's over normal DC's.

Thoughts?

Small Gang Brawl
  Code:
[Vagabond, Small Gang Brawl]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Reactor Control Unit II
EFFA Compact Assault Damage Control

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II


Acolyte II x5


Republic Fleet EMP M x1
Navy Cap Booster 400 x1


PvP Armor Heavy Tackle
  Code:
[Vagabond, PvP Armor Heavy Tackle]

Assault Damage Control II
1600mm Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Gyrostabilizer II

50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Warp Disruptor II

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
Auto Targeting System I

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5


Republic Fleet EMP M x1


PvP Active Shield
  Code:
[Vagabond, PvP Active Shield]

Assault Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50

425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
Auto Targeting System I

Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Projectile Burst Aerator I


Hobgoblin II x5


Cap Booster 50 x1
Republic Fleet EMP M x1


E-UNI Vagabond - Shield Kite
  Code:
[Vagabond, E-UNI Vagabond - Shield Kite]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Assault Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive

425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
Improved Cloaking Device II

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I


Warrior II x5


Dual Small Gang Prop Brawl
  Code:
[Vagabond, Dual Small Gang Prop Brawl]

Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
EFFA Compact Assault Damage Control
Tracking Enhancer II

Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
10MN Afterburner II
50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
Small Ghoul Compact Energy Nosferatu

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Acolyte II x5


Barrage M x2781
Republic Fleet EMP M x2505
Republic Fleet Fusion M x1215
Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M x730
Republic Fleet Proton M x40
Nanite Repair Paste x157
Navy Cap Booster 400 x15


C3 Self-rep
  Code:
[Vagabond, C3 Self-rep]

Assault Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Light Missile

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II


Warrior II x5


Mjolnir Light Missile x2
Republic Fleet EMP M x2
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Conci Furiram

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Post 2018.05.24 16:44

Re: Vagabond

Jor'Ox wrote:Most notably is the addition of 'Assault Damage Control' modules. I have gone through and added these to each fitting.

You need to have a reason for adding the new module to each fit. Just cause it's new and fancy doesn't mean it has no drawbacks, viz., it has lower passive resists than a DC, uses a fair chunk of cap to activate, and runs for a limited, visible-to-enemy amount of time. Some of the fits you linked above should not use the ADC.
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Hideo Date

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Post 2018.05.24 19:43

Re: Vagabond

To elaborate some more on Concis point:

The C3 self-rep definitely shouldn't use a ADC, it's meant for solo farming C3 sites, you are getting sustained damage there.

I can't really speak to the PvP fits, but from my view I would say the "Heavy tackle" would get the most out of an ADC.

I assume the "shield kite" shouldn't have an ADC, doubt that you would benefit much as a kiter.

For the other ones I am really not sure. I guess for the brawl fit it might be good as well.
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Raido Kudonen

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Post 2018.05.25 00:20

Re: Vagabond

The Vagabond is in a really bad place right now. Medium ACs are severely underpowered, it doesn't have enough mids for the local tank it's bonused for plus tackle, and local tank is really best for solo ships (which need tackle).

The first four fits are all obvious trash and should be deleted. Hard to say whether #3 (the "heavy tackle" armor tanked one) or #4 (buffer tank w/ no resists, local tackle, AND a cloaking device) are more egregious. I have no opinion about the C3 one, and the dual prop fit at least demonstrates that someone had a bare minimum sense of a way to use a very weak HAC.

This fit is adapted from the zkill guide, which has some hilarious feeding from a TGRAD gatecamp as a hidden bonus!

SPOILER WARNING!
[Vagabond, yolo]

Power Diagnostic System II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II

Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner
Warp Scrambler II
Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster
Thukker Large Cap Battery

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II


Acolyte II x5


Edit: Oops, forgot to add that ADCs aren't good for cap stable HACs because the whole point of a cap stable solo PvP fit is to be able to tank bad guys for a very extended period of time, and if you're relying on a brief burst of invulnerability to do that, you're doing it wrong. X-LASB Vagabonds can benefit greatly from the ADC because it increases your chance of successfully reloading the shield booster, but I'm not sure how much you want to rely on an X-LASB when your hull costs almost 300m.
"What is good in life, Raido?"
"To crush your enemies. To see them bubbled before you, and to hear the lamentations of their carebears."

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Hirmuolio Pine

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Post 2018.05.25 04:54

Re: Vagabond

Why does that C3 vagabond have thermal rig? The two weakest resists without rigs are kinetic and explosive so it should have kinetic and explosive rigs.

That fit works well in normal space pve sites too. Just drop the missile launcher for a probe launcher and you can also swap the AB for T2 version. It can do any site that doesn't have webbing towers.

I have also tested one where the cap battery is replaced with shield boost amplifier. It has same sustained tank but stronger tank for limited time but you need to manage your rep since it isn't cap stable anymore. It can kind of do the besieged covert sites solo but if you get too many webbing battleships you die.
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K950

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Post 2018.05.25 04:55

Re: Vagabond

^ Probably because EM/Thermal turret strikes from the BS is the biggest threat, not the KIN/EX missiles which will do reduced application with the ship moving. Two solid turret strikes in a lower-tier C3 running ship can wake you up pretty quick :).

The Vagabond has a nice T2 resistance profile, a bonus to shield hitpoints repaired, is fast, and has a utility high slot. It also is cramped for mids, falloff bonus doesn't cover out past point range and has a few other minor faults.

The two most common setups are the 100MN Pith X-Type LSB setup of which there are a few subtle variations, and X-L ASB setup. For the Pith X-Type LSB setup I firmly believe a set of Mid-Grade Crystals is essential (minus the Omega if you like). Most are similar to Raido's above. Here's a different version which drops down to Dual 180mm AutoCannons and upgrades to a Medium neut. Frigates and destroyers don't like medium neuts.

  Code:
[Vagabond, Vagabond - Shield 100MN AutoCannons D.180mm 1M Neut Stable]

Assault Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System

Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner
Warp Scrambler II
Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster
Thukker Large Cap Battery

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Medium Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II


Acolyte II x5


Mid-grade Crystal Alpha
Mid-grade Crystal Beta
Mid-grade Crystal Gamma
Mid-grade Crystal Delta
Mid-grade Crystal Epsilon
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Power Grid Management EG-602


The ADC has only a 35GJ activation cost. That's not a big deal on a cruiser: and it's not something for you to rely on, but it's there because -- well, why not?

Something to be seriously concerned about the Vagabond in particular (the Deimos has this vulnerability too) is the very weak native buffer for a ship of its cost. Against Fusion ammunition this fit above has literally 10.3k EHP - a good Tornado can wipe out your entire shield, armor and probably all but a sliver of structure with a good strike. All you need is a durable tackle with dual webs to counter the 100MN AB, a target painter wouldn't hurt, warp in the Tornado just to optimal range, match transversal and POP.

Another variation behaves more like a more expensive version of the Omen Navy Issue or Cynabal -- nimble fast cruisers good for skirting about nullsec. Not sure if I really like it though. Could also function has tackle - it has more speed than a standard Omen Navy Issue, and would be a problem for one. Bring Blue Pill.

  Code:
[Vagabond, Vagabond - Shield MWD AutoCannons D.180mm X-L ASB 1M Neut]

Assault Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
Medium Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II


Warrior II x5


720mm Artillery, dual X-L ASBs, dual LASBs, and brawling 10MN Vagabonds -- probably aren't really that good. For brawling it doesn't really have the mids to leverage its shield bonuses properly.
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Rashar Arji

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Post 2018.05.25 07:47

Re: Vagabond

Probably because EM/Thermal turret strikes from the BS is the biggest threat

You won't be hit by the turrets if you're doing it right.

The two most common setups are the 100MN Pith X-Type LSB setup of which there are a few subtle variations, and X-L ASB setup. For the Pith X-Type LSB setup I firmly believe a set of Mid-Grade Crystals is essential (minus the Omega if you like). Most are similar to Raido's above. Here's a different version which drops down to Dual 180mm AutoCannons and upgrades to a Medium neut. Frigates and destroyers don't like medium neuts.

Are we still talking about the PVE fit?!

The ADC has only a 35GJ activation cost. That's not a big deal on a cruiser: and it's not something for you to rely on, but it's there because -- well, why not?

The ADC is, by how it works, definitely something you would rely on.
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White 0rchid

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Post 2018.05.25 10:22

Re: Vagabond

Don't fit ADCs to active tanking vagas. Their short duration is not worth the tradeoff. You're still better off fitting a normal DC, especially with permarep fits such as:

https://zkillboard.com/kill/58410092/

I also *really* dislike 100MN vagas (which I have also flown https://zkillboard.com/kill/56391736/ )
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Tal Tracyn

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Post 2018.06.01 17:24

Re: Vagabond

SPOILER WARNING!
[Vagabond]

Overdrive Injector System II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II

10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
Medium Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Auxiliary Thrusters II


Warrior II x5
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