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Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.06.26 15:46
by Emmit Laduko
Echerie, I suspect you'll quickly find ways to make more money than you do now. A battlecruiser's price is a reachable goal for most Sophomores, even if they joined the Uni when they first created their first character, though younger characters are more likely to struggle with the skills to fly the ship well.

That said, battlecruiser is recommended, not mandatory. It is so because the PvE sites that are typically run are in C3s, which are middling difficulty, and because there's the possibility of PvP, which you're much better off starting to learn in a WH in a BC than a cruiser or frigate. A battlecruiser ensures you'll be able to participate in almost any potential activity. If you'd like to bring a scanning frigate with a cloak (cloaking1 is enough unless you're looking at bringing a CovOps), I can virtually promise you won't be turned away from coming along, but your ability to directly participate in everything the class may do will be limited.

If you do have a deep interest in WHs, as your post history indicates, I suggest you come along for the class, ask any questions you may have (WHC.E-Uni is another good resource, but people may be slow to answer), and start out by daytripping in C1 and C2 WHs on your own until you can join the campus properly.

Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.06.26 21:24
by Terra Infector Adoudel
You can run C3 sites in a T2 tasked cruiser no problem (especially with WHC typical numbers and guardians). You can scan almost as well in a T1 frig as a cov ops. A dessie has the majority of the effectiveness of a noctis.

Really no need for that high requirements tbh.

Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.06.26 21:40
by Mia Sedgwick
Terra Infector Adoudel wrote:You can run C3 sites in a T2 tasked cruiser no problem (especially with WHC typical numbers and guardians). You can scan almost as well in a T1 frig as a cov ops. A dessie has the majority of the effectiveness of a noctis.

Really no need for that high requirements tbh.


For the WHC introduction I think saying a T2 tanked Cruiser is just fine as we know for a fact they can survive as Augorors and Exequrors manage just fine.

That said, as pointed out, it does say prefer and that cruisers are in fact fine, my only concern is generally mixed tanks, it's far safer to just say bring an armour cruiser or BC, if you can't fit T2 tank then by all means bring a cruiser with meta 4 ENAM's but I'd suggest throwing in the armour compensation skills to 3 to help with resist :)

Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.06.26 21:55
by Emmit Laduko
Terra Infector Adoudel wrote:You can run C3 sites in a T2 tasked cruiser no problem ...


You can be effective in C3s in some T1 cruisers with good fits and good skills. T2 cruisers are a bit more forgiving. Battlecruisers are easier still. Most battlecruisers are going to have the raw buffer to where they'll be able to be kept up even if they're tanked "suboptimally", which will show even more if there's any PvP.

Yes, t1 scanning frigates have the ability to scan almost as well as CovOps ships and can picket just as well. Their ability to scout a WH without being detected is very limited.

None of this means you *can't* bring a cruiser or t1 frigate, the ship recommendations are only recommendations, and if people have a burning interest in WH life there's much they can learn from coming anyways -- but if they don't bring a BC or CovOps what they can actually participate in gets limited very quickly to site running and in the case of surprise! PvP, cruisers are almost certainly lost.

Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.06.27 11:55
by Cassiel Seraphim
I think you all forget the key point of his comment ... "noob" doesn't include T2 tanks and battlecruisers, or even meta-fit cruisers, no matter how you twist and turn it. Or at least it shouldn't, which if I'm not mistaken seems to be the point he's making.

"noob" should be reserved for frigate/destroyer stuff that doesn't require T2 modules. A good frame of reference, in my humble opinion, could be "Can someone who just did the tutorial missions do this?". If the answer is no, then don't call it "noob" ;)

Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.06.27 12:36
by Emmit Laduko
viewtopic.php?t=81916

Separate discussion thread started so we don't derail this one anymore

Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.06.28 10:01
by Lelira Cirim (Biomassed 2016.05.28)
Alan Logrus wrote:Can we start paying our teachers? If we payed our teachers the typical reward for an L4 mission, they might teach a class instead of running an L4. I know this sounds very capitalistic...

First off, I think this is an off topic statement. Nothing about more classes equates to improving classes, and we're back to the feedback loop in Kivena's OP. However, I do appreciate the bigger point you're probably trying to make, and that's very much on topic. So thanks for that. :)

I'm sure it has been discussed at many times in many ways in the last 10 years. Here's the core problems that I feel strongly about, as a Teacher:
- Fundamentally people don't find remuneration part of the value proposition in volunteerism. There are studies and videos I can point you to. Also my own 20 years of volunteerism.
- Teachers are allowed to play the game too, despite all the back and forth, ISK/hr is not the best metric for why people do what they choose to do. Otherwise PVPers would be the ones being laughed at.
- I can sneeze and the metric of "a typical L4 mission" falls out of my pockets. They're not equatable for the time required to teach a 1 or 2 hour class, which extends beyond the actual class time, as all teaching does. How much should a teacher get for offering Incursions 101? All values are arbitrary.
- Where exactly does the money come from, with a 0.1% tax on agent missions? :lol: That's nothing.
- Agreeing to be a teacher is about wanting to be a teacher. As are all the staff positions in this and many many other EVE corps. If there is pay to go through the motions of doing something one doesn't actually want to do, it reduces the quality of work. (Ask [the boss of] anyone who plays games while on their IRL work time.)

(If someone wants to be paid to work hard in this game, I recommend applying at SOMER Blink. I've considered it myself.)

Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.06.28 13:41
by Alan Logrus
Volunteerism is all swell, but I think we would get more people teaching if we paid them. I get tired of looking at a weekly class schedule that has maybe 5 classes in it. We support SRP and Implant programs that surely cost much more than paying a teacher 10m for teaching a class when that is the primary mission of this corp. It takes a of time to set up a course. It may bring up issues of quality control as we'll.

Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.07.19 16:17
by Karimson Safehold
The isk per hour doesn't remove the paperwork issue, which actually takes up around 30m of time, which is like 1 L4 mission. Writing out these posts, even with copy and paste, setting up the calendar schedule, etc. It's a lot of details to go over and get right.

Notes for the class only needs to be done once, but every time a new class is up, the paperwork doesn't decrease. The paperwork itself isn't heavy, but after like 12 classes, it starts feeling familiar. Too familiar.

Somer Blink is actually how some governments and corporations are run. Or should be, if they aren't.

But to get to the main point of classes, if the end goal is getting more classes, then it has to be to get more teachers. And if there are people who want to teach, and I know there are out there, and something is blocking them like... whatever it is, then that's reducing the number of classes.

I start to get why professors keep hiring "teaching assistants".

Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.07.21 19:22
by Agt Dunham
Class at diffrent times I tend to miss a lot of classes by like 1 hour or two because of work. I know a lot of teachers read out loud the question people ask in the recordings but some dont all the time.

Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.07.22 07:30
by Comrade Blade
If I was offered ISK up front to teach it wouldn't encourage me to teach. Our teachers teach because they want to teach. I believe there are even studies out there that show that monetary rewards for in volunteer based organisations leads to decreased motivation and quality of work as the activity becomes more like work. It's also why there has been no move towards payment for blood donations as studies have indicated payment would likely decrease donations.
The best payment for teachers is having a chat log full of thankyous when your done and half a dozen players hanging out in mumble afterwards picking your brain.

Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.07.22 17:49
by KraK Oziane
create a 102 version, expecially on the pvp matter. Male a theorical class be followed by a practical one. Learning circling with someone that shoot you (just with one gun and some logi on field) makes u learning how it works quite immediatly without loosing a ship. Fighting in a noob ship different kind of ship flyed by experienced pilots makes you immediatly get the concept of kiting or brawling, or even how to aproach a fight. Arranging student in two team AT a gate, one have to point the other and the other have to escape, tech them to point someone and to try to escape someone, when it happen in "real" situation you mostly don't have the time to understand what has happened and u don' have the chance to try it again because you have lost your ship, no one is there to explain u wich mistakes u have done. Sorry for my bad english :)

Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.08.03 17:34
by Ara Kiel
Personally I'd really like to see a few more "102" classes on slightly more advanced topics related to life in low/null. I think the most fun class I've attended since joining was Black Ops Hot Drops by BobbyRush. More can't-be-done-in-hisec classes would be nice :) Moon mining, cap clone vats, bubbles, and especially sovereignty structures. Preferably given by people in the alliances that use these for the daily operation of their space.

Thanks,
~Ara

Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.10.06 13:57
by Spanky Ikkala
Perhaps there MAY be some mileage on offering a bounty to teachers that develop a new class including slides, wiki plan etc that they, and thus others, can then deliver? But as for paying teachers to teach I am against that. All we ask is 1 class a month which could be an hour or so - in the HR department some people can average an hour of work a day as a PO/SPO and they don't get, or ask to be, paid.

Re: How can we improve our classes?

PostPosted: 2014.10.06 14:00
by Rikki Bigg
Spanky Ikkala wrote:Perhaps there MAY be some mileage on offering a bounty to teachers that develop a new class including slides, wiki plan etc that they, and thus others, can then deliver? But as for paying teachers to teach I am against that. All we ask is 1 class a month which could be an hour or so - in the HR department some people can average an hour of work a day as a PO/SPO and they don't get, or ask to be, paid.


It was my understanding the 'bounty' you are referring to was the Professor title.