Production Hub Selection and Cost Index

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TheBigDumbAnimal

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Post 2016.03.09 19:47

Production Hub Selection and Cost Index

I'm starting up tech 2 production on an alt account and trying to figure out where my base of operations will be. I've already identified my trade hub of interest. There are several stations within about 3 jumps with very low Cost Index's. The problem I'm seeing with basing wholely out of there is logistics. The obvious problem is bringing a large volume of raw materials in. I have no industrial ships trained past level one and would like to get things up and running without sinking tons of so into ships. The second logistics hurdle is getting finished product back without getting ganked. Most tech 2 modules are in the 2m+ price range and take up very little space. If I fill an industrial up it will be a huge gank target. This means multiple trips which adds significant time. The compromise I'm looking at is to do actual tech 2 manufacturing in the trade hub (larger cost index bust most tech 2 items have reasonable margins) and do the research/copying/invention at a station with a lower cost index. Ideally I could then skill into a cruiser and fit a fairly substantial buffer tank and fly the BPCs to the trade hub every day or two without becoming a big target.

Anyone have thoughts on this plan? Where do you base your production out of and why? Also please mention what you produce, tech 1 ships for example require lots of cargo space relative to their value.
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Melkor Gengod

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Post 2016.03.09 20:39

Re: Production Hub Selection and Cost Index

I myself spent a long time deciding on where to base my production in order to balance logistics with system cost indexes so I know exactly where you are coming from.
There are 2 ways of looking at it, do you want to invest ISK into your logistics or time, both methods have merits.

ISK - Look-up Haulers channel and mailing list in game, there you can post public hauler contracts for a huge amount of haulers to look at. General pricing guidelines for a hisec run is 1mil per jump per 1bil collateral. So to haul 1bil of stuff 10 jumps costs 10mil ISK. Hub to hub runs are usually completed in a couple of hours if they are less than 60,000m3 (A lvl 4 DST pilot which is the favored choice for most of Eves haulers as they can be tanked massively, can be flown using the MWD trick and are much quicker than freighters.

Time - seriously consider training a hauler alt and doing it yourself. For one months train, you can fly a Blockade Runner or DST. Blockade runners are quick and can use a covops cloak but have a max cargo of 12-13k m3. DST's I have already described.

With both the DST and the BR, with a bit of practice, they are almost uncatchable in hisec. The BR flys like a covops frigate so can warp cloaked, they are only vulnerable on dock and undock as long as you don't autopilot. Just remember that nobody can scan your hold so never fly it uncloaked as it has a thin tank and opportunist gankers will be willing to risk a couple of dessies or one tornado to concord just to see what you are carrying. The DST is slower, but using the MWD trick, they are only catchable by instalockers, but since they have a bonus to warp core strength and can be tanked well over 100,000EHP and with blingy fits, over 200,000 EHP, it will take a lot of instalockers to pin it down and take it down.

I'm not going to say where my POS is located, but I picked the spot because it was a perfect storm of....
- Less than 5 jumps from Jita
- System Cost index less than 3% for manufacturing and 0.1% for invention as there were no research stations in system and I was planing on using a POS
- Not traveling down the Udema pipe
- A very quiet lowsec back pocket behind the system that allows my to bring the JF in if required.

I use a Leopord for moving BPO's or BPCs (very rare they get moved, usually just between station and POS)
I use my BR for small expensive stuff
I use my DST as the work horse for the majority of time critical stuff
I use my JF for the expensive big stuff
and I use haulers channel for anything that isn't time critical as if the load gets blown up, I get the full value back
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Zeerse Solaris

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Post 2016.03.10 12:58

Re: Production Hub Selection and Cost Index

If it's an alt account, does another character on that account need to be employed? If not then theres just an illusion of time wasted hauling.

In other words, once you get your jobs running, which will probably take several hours at least each, what is that alt going to be doing if not running to the hub for materials/selling produce?

You can run your main on another client doing whatever you like doing.

This is my approach so I'm 8 jumps from the nearest hub which doesn't matter that much if I'm doing something like site running in my main and I just have to flick back to the hauler client occasionally to start the next jump.

The isk margin I find can be a distraction, pick somewhere convenient/safe where you wouldn't lose the motivation to get to the hub regularly. You don't want to be one of those sellers with 500 modules to sell because they're too lazy to move the stuff in smaller quantities, that just ends up with everyone wanting to sell their 5 units being more aggressive in their undercutting.

Which leads me on to...the market alt, consider a character who does nothing but sit in the hub buying your materials and selling your produce. You then don't have to do more than log in/out to manage your orders.

Melkor's advice is good. I tend towards a DST which should be safe up to a 500m as long as you don't stumble into a burn scenario.
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TheBigDumbAnimal

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Post 2016.03.10 14:49

Re: Production Hub Selection and Cost Index

Thanks guys, I'll take a look at that. Any particular race's ships to go for? I'm currnelyt thinking gallente since you can have specialized ships for different purposes at tech 1, but again I think with tech 2 components (not so much minerals) I'd hit the gank limit before I run out of space on a tech 1 hull.
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Melkor Gengod

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Post 2016.03.10 15:18

Re: Production Hub Selection and Cost Index

The Galentte T2 indies are fine. The Occator has a lot of low slots to tank it with. You don't need cargo extenders on a DST as you will be hauling in the fleet hanger which cargo extenders have no effect on. The Victor is a middle of the road BR. It does the job just fine but is a bit lacking in the cargo space category, needing at least 1 rig and 3 extenders to get to 10k m3. I generally say, use 2 rigs then replace any extenders you don't need for your load with annanos to get a really quick align time. The tank is not really important as no matter what you do, you are going to be one shot killed by a tornado so your ally will be agility and cloaking.
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Paledan Safemal

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Post 2016.03.10 19:50

Re: Production Hub Selection and Cost Index

If you're going to go to that much trouble, further note that indexes are dynamic. If a system's index is low, moving your POS in and trying to make it pay for itself is going to push the index up.

So you want to have an idea of exactly how much the index is saving you (usually not very much), and how far you are ready to let it climb before you pack up and find another spot.

Further note that T2 production makes for significant stockpiles. Be ready to sink a fair amount of capital before the thing gets self-sustaining and you can actually collect ISK off of it.
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Felix Jugo

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Post 2016.05.07 09:09

Re: Production Hub Selection and Cost Index

TheBigDumbAnimal wrote:The obvious problem is bringing a large volume of raw materials in. I have no industrial ships trained past level one and would like to get things up and running without sinking tons of so into ships. The second logistics hurdle is getting finished product back without getting ganked.


Have you considered using courier contracts? If fully collateralized, ganking is no longer a concern because you will be reimbursed if your courier gets ganked.

The cost of couriering an entire freighter full of minerals (845,000m3) four jumps is ballpark 10 million isk. (based on Red Frog Freight's Current fees: http://red-frog.org/jumps.php) True, paying someone else to do your hauling will reduce your profit margin, but it might make sense to do that if your alternatives are flying dozens of trips in an industrial or buying your own freighter.
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Bunny Crusher

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Post 2016.05.07 09:51

Re: Production Hub Selection and Cost Index

If you're hub in consideration is near Placid, My alt can do cloaky haulers and would be willing to help with curior duties.
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