Questions for an industrialist

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Jorj Onzo

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Post 2018.03.27 03:49

Questions for an industrialist

Greetings,

I’m getting back into eve again and am wondering if there’s a knowledgeable industialist willing to field the occasional questions about production. I have one main interest: build a jump freighter. Along the way if I start manufacturing components or ammo, that’s fine. But priority is the JF. This probably sounds backwards and a little ridiculous, but i’ve sunk a lot of skill training and resources already.

I have a raitaru fitted to build capital components. I have the components (hauled from Jita) to build a providence. I have a providence blueprint currently being copied into 5 BPC’s. And have two related characters. One that can fly the providence/ark, and one that soon will have all the skills to build it.

It would be cool to be able to PM or mumble occasionally with someone who knows what they’re doing.
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Cryptic Sharvas

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Post 2018.03.27 15:10

Re: Questions for an industrialist

I'd be willing to provide advice/knowledge transfer I've built a few capitals
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Rodger Kint

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Post 2018.03.27 15:27

Re: Questions for an industrialist

I built my own Nomad, the Geoffery Fourmile. I think I broke even because I bottom fished the components out in the Hek area. I recommend you do up a spreadsheet with all the ark component costs including the providence. You might find out it's going to cost you a few hundred million more to build it than to just buy one. Of course, maybe you're crazy like me and want to build it yourself just to have the satisfaction. If that's the case, feel free to bounce questions off me.
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Jorj Onzo

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Post 2018.03.27 16:42

Re: Questions for an industrialist

Awesome, thanks guys. Most initial questions that pop up as I read material or fiddle in-game I'll save you from. But the big, persistent head scratchers would be great hash over with someone. Will be in touch!
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Zoltan Irvam

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Post 2018.03.27 21:27

Re: Questions for an industrialist

Hi,

sounds like an interesting project - think big!

I am by no means a specialist, but from what I read in your first post, you are likely trying to make your own Ark BPC via invention - this is an ambitious undertaking and quite a huge investment in skills - especially if you really only need one run.

That being said, if you want to do it, you should train the relevant Invention skills Amarr Spaceship Engineering and Molecular Engineering to 4 (or 5 if you want to wait so long) and Amarr Encryption methods to 3 or 4. They all increase your invention chance - the two former a bit more than the last.

Also given the the amount of datacores needed for a run, you might want to invest into a decryptor with a good probability and ME boost - it will save a bit on datacores and quite some more on mats when producing it.

Zoltan
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Jorj Onzo

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Post 2018.03.27 22:12

Re: Questions for an industrialist

Hey Zoltan,

After setting up the skill que for the invention process (I put all to 4) I realized the time delay was a bit much. Especially on top of the other skills waiting to construct the providence. So today I bought package deal with enough blueprint copies for both a providence and the ark. (1.4 bill for the ark blueprint, providence blueprint, and a ton of component blueprints that seemed to match the required materials for each) With 5 providence BPC's already being copied, I'll eventually be able to build 6 arks if it's feasible? If I can find a market likely to buy them.

One question: the original BPOs from NPC's for capital components range in price from 15 million to +800 million. I haven't priced everything out yet, but is there a typical $ investment number that a collection of BPO's like these price out at? Like 5-10-20 billion for the collection?

Edit: not 6 arks, I basically need two bpc's per ark.
Zoltan Irvam wrote:Hi,

sounds like an interesting project - think big!

I am by no means a specialist, but from what I read in your first post, you are likely trying to make your own Ark BPC via invention - this is an ambitious undertaking and quite a huge investment in skills - especially if you really only need one run.

That being said, if you want to do it, you should train the relevant Invention skills Amarr Spaceship Engineering and Molecular Engineering to 4 (or 5 if you want to wait so long) and Amarr Encryption methods to 3 or 4. They all increase your invention chance - the two former a bit more than the last.

Also given the the amount of datacores needed for a run, you might want to invest into a decryptor with a good probability and ME boost - it will save a bit on datacores and quite some more on mats when producing it.

Zoltan
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Rodger Kint

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Post 2018.03.28 02:47

Re: Questions for an industrialist

Cry or laugh... that is the question.

So NPCs sell un-reaseached BPOs. With TE and ME at 0%. From BPOs you can make copies. BPOs can also be researched to permanently increase their TE to 20% and their ME to 10%. Any BPCs you then make from these researched BPOs will have the new TE and ME. TE is a reduction in the time of production. ME is a reduction in the materials required for production. Making stuff from BPCs at TE 0 and ME 0 is generally a good way to lose your shirt.

A true vertically integrated industrialist will buy BPOs from an NPC, then they will research them down to increase their TE and ME, then they will make BPCs from them. And only then will they use them to make stuff. You can also amass BPOs that have been researched by purchasing them from the contracts market. BPOs that have been researched cannot trade on the marketplace, only in contracts. There is a whole business out there in buying BPOs, researching them, then making copies for sale. Or just selling the researched BPOs to someone who doesn't want to wait the 1.5 years it takes to fully research a Nidhoggur BPO.

T2 BPCs are another matter. Those you make from related T1 BPCs combined with 2 types of datacores and (optionally) an incriptor. The TE and ME of the T2 BPC (if successful, its a roll of the dice) will have the TE and ME and number of production runs specified by the incriptor used and is unrelated to the TE and ME of the T1 BPC used. For something like an Ark, you probably want to choose the incriptor that maximizes the ME outcome and only has a production run of 1.

There's also some unicorn T2 BPOs out there that CCP distributed back in the mists of time but they trade very rarely for 100s of billions of isk so we can safely ignore their existence for this analysis.

Since you just bought a collection of BPCs to make an Ark, hopefully you will find on examining the contents that you have a reasonable ME on the Ark BPC (like perhaps ME 5%) and Providence BPC (TE 16 ME 10) and all the capital components are TE20 ME10. If not, you're looking at accumulating more mats and spending more production time (which costs isk) than your competitors.

I think your building ONE Ark is a good educational process but you are going to pay for that education. To imagine that you are going to be price competitive with people who have perfect skills, a library of fully researched BPOs, are building Arks in T2 rigged Soyotos in null sec, using mats bought from their alliance mining noobs through buybacks or via low ball region-wide market orders, is naive.

Situationally I had fun doing some industry. I researched missile BPOs, made a bunch and transported them to incursion areas. Profits 100%. But really in total isk terms it wasn't a great use of my time and I moved on.
Last edited by Rodger Kint on 2018.03.28 21:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Jorj Onzo

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Post 2018.03.28 05:19

Re: Questions for an industrialist

Agreed, I worded that poorly. Building ONE Ark will be a good learning experience, and given I bought those BPC’s today probably guaranteed. But we’ll have to see about building more than that. I kinda want to anyway to be forced to build all the capital components from the BPC’s. (Already have one set bought) Anyway I’m at work right now and unable to make sense of the information the Neocom app is reporting about the tech 2 Ark BPC (says TE and ME are both 4 days?) but the tech 1 BPC’s are all fully researched.
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Zoltan Irvam

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Post 2018.03.28 06:00

Re: Questions for an industrialist

Hi,

buying a BPC pack is probably a faster way if you only want one Ark. I cannot comment on the price and contents of your pack - if it's the one sold by Eric Ludlow in Jita for 1.38b, it looks solid, component BPCs at max, Provi at 10/16 and Ark at 5/10, but haven't checked if the components are complete...

I don't understand though, how you want to make more than one Ark from it and your Provi BPCs - you would still have to invent them and thus get the skills...

Regarding buying the BPOs for the components - you really have to do the math yourself. Also as Rodger has pointed out, the main cost is not the NPC price of the BPO but the time and ISK investment to research them to competitive levels. You can rest assured unless you want to build Arks for a living, it is not worth your time. Also it will be hard to compete unless you have access to a set of engineering complexes rigged for the different tasks and a plentiful and cheap supply of ore.

Jita sell orders are slightly below 11b right now and there are between 1 and 8 moving per day lately. You might want to run the numbers through a good blueprint calculator to find out if you can compete...

Good luck,

Zoltan
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Jorj Onzo

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Post 2018.03.28 06:34

Re: Questions for an industrialist

I was going to go with the Eric Ludlow contract but then comparing it to another slightly more expensive contract saw that the BPC’s had more runs on them.. so went with the 1.4b one. Hopefully the ark bpc is 5/10.

As far as multiple ships go I was just thinking that because I already bought that provi blueprint from an NPC last week, and already have it making 5 copies, I may as well do something with them. Plus I’m not sure where else to go with my skill training right now, so training for invention (to L4 of the relevant skills) isn’t much of a waste. But yeah it might just be a big waste of time, and expensive.

Cheers, thanks for the feedback guys

Edit: yup, ark blueprint is 5/10, provi (from contract) is 10/20
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Cryptic Sharvas

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Post 2018.03.28 12:12

Re: Questions for an industrialist

how many runs are on the Ark BPC?
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Jorj Onzo

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Post 2018.03.28 13:23

Re: Questions for an industrialist

Cryptic Sharvas wrote:how many runs are on the Ark BPC?


Just one run. So if I want to invent more i’ll have to wait on the skills and get those optional components etc.

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