Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

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Don Silesius

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Post 2017.01.10 15:08

Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

Greetings fellow pilots,

Let’s start by stating the obvious: I am pretty new to the game (started late december, with no prior knowledge), and I have been accepted into EVE University last week-end. I started playing the game with the desire to be involved in the crafting and trading side of things. When I joined the Uni, I decided to get closer to the Highsec Campus, with the hope of learning more stuff about flying ships and playing with others before concentrating on industry and trading. So far I must admit things didn’t really go in that direction. On the long run, I’m very interested in industry, but while I learn more about it, I figured I would start doing station trading, to learn more about markets, various items, and also to gain ISK to eventually start industry.

I thought it would be a good idea to stay close to the Highsec Campus, so I went to the closest trade hub, Dodixie, and I haven’t really undocked since I got there... I was skeptical at first, because I kept reading that it was a bad trade hub compared to Jita, etc. But so far things haven’t been that bad, in my humble newbie opinion at least: since I started I made a net profit of 50M per day, which is far from a fortune, but it’s a result I’m not unhappy about, considering I started doing this with no prior knowledge of items or anything, just manually studying markets and making decision on my own. So far I also have been doing everything manually, no spreadsheet or anything, but if I continue I will have to get organized a bit. That said, being new makes it very hard for me to evaluate if those results are good or bad, but that is not very important for now. Learning is what is important.

In short, so far I was okay with trading in Dodixie, but after starting my research on industry, I realized that there was a problem in Dodixie: it is not a very interesting place in terms of industry facilities. So now I’m starting to think it isn’t a good place at all to establish myself if industry is the goal...

Any opinion or advice? Should I just move to Jita and forget being close to Highsec Campus? Any other place I should visit for the activities I’m interested in?

I’m aware that my questions may seem a little bit stupid. Trading hasn’t been too hard to get into, but industry seems another story so I’m just looking for advice while I plan ahead.

The other goal of my post is to say that I’m looking for friends and colleagues in that adventure. I would be very happy to meet like-minded players, interested by industry and trading, veterans or new players like me, so we could learn together and hopefully help each other.

Thanks in advance for any help,

Don Silesius
I have to return some videotapes.
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White 0rchid

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Post 2017.01.10 15:31

Re: Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

First, you need to answer the question of why do you need to be near the highsec campus? What does that gain you. Amy is like 14 jumps from Jita (and 10 from Dodixie), that's less than 10 minutes travel in a properly fitted ship.

There really isn't anywhere much "nearer" than Jita that would be of great benefit to you as a trader.
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Locke Eistiras

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Post 2017.01.10 15:56

Re: Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

Another idea for you is to reach out to the mining campus, it's always nice to get out and "do" something while you are waiting on orders. The guys there are really good and trade hub is closish.
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Don Silesius

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Post 2017.01.10 17:02

Re: Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

Thank you both for the replies. I will do some research about the mining campus.

About the highsec campus, my desire to be there is kind of a good question. I guess one part of my question in posting here was to know if highsec campus was a good place to be for someone interested mainly in trading and industry.

But more generally, I thought it would be a good idea to go there to learn more about the basics: I’m still way too clueless about ships, fittings, fleets, etc. I want to specialize in industry, but I felt like learning more about the game before specializing would be a good idea.

Before I started trading, I did a bit of mining and exploration, but that was all very basic. I felt like maybe I was trying to skip some steps by going straight for industry, if that makes sense?

I’ll keep thinking about it all, while I liquidate what I have in Didoxie. I think I didn’t realize the difference between Jita and Didoxie in terms of distance from highsec campus wasn’t that big. :-)
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Adree Jericho

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Post 2017.01.12 02:29

Re: Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

I'm putting together a class on station trading, and hope to have it going soon. Watch for it in the schedule. :)
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Melkor Gengod

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Post 2017.01.12 13:43

Re: Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

First you need to make some decisions.....

Where are getting your raw materials from? Dixie? Jita? Amarr? Your own PI/Salvage/mining in HSC?

Where are you going to sell? Dixie? Jita? Amarr? Not selling, just for personal use in HSC?

Is profit your primary goal or is it to produce your own ships/modules for personal use?

What are you building?


The biggest time sink in an industry operation is haulage, both of the raw mats and of the finished goods.

Haulage time - In some cases, the raw mats are take more volume than the final product, ion which case, you want to be as close to your supply as possible so you are moving less loads. If the finished products are bigger, then be as close to your market as possible. If both supply and market are the same place, you will need to balance haulage time with cost.

Cost - The more people in a system doing industry, the more expensive it is to do it there (this is called the system cost index). So if you are looking to make profit, you need to keep this as low as possible, however everyone wants to be close to a trade hub so it is expensive around these.

So when you know where your supply is and where your market is and you know roughly how far from each you want to be, crack out a pen and use this tool to list all of the systems within an acceptable range of both, has industry facilities and has as low a SCI as possible....

https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/costindex.php
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Zeerse Solaris

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Post 2017.01.13 13:01

Re: Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

I don't know the range of industry stations in trade hub systems but they are likely to be very high system indexes (the way to think about this is as an NPC tax levied by the local authorities for manufacturing).

All industrialists I know, including myself, base themselves away from a hub, produce the stuff and haul it to market, that's partially because industry is mostly passive, I can set a series of jobs that take 5 days for example, so I want to do something else in that period.

The new industry structures run by players, should be better and cheaper than stations (if not it's one to stay away from using because the owners have terrible rates). So you should focus on finding one of those with a good rate, that's relatively safe from getting blown up by anyone deciding to declare war on it's owners.

The ideal for me is to have an account with 3 alts with specific roles:
1) market alt, never leaves station, sets up buy orders for materials, sell orders for the goods, fights the 0.1 isk battles (because you can simply log in and out of that alt rather than have to travel to do those things)
2) hauler alt, passes materials/goods to and from the market alt, is out of corp to move as freely as possible
3) main character, mine does industry, missioning, pvp etc.

I'm not sure if Alpha's are restricted in how many alts, even for an omega, you would be faced with additional real money costs of multi character training or pause training on the main to get the other two to acceptable levels.
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Don Silesius

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Post 2017.01.14 17:08

Re: Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

Thank you all for the details, I appreciate the help. Since my first post I continued my research, and understood a bit more about player stations, facilities, etc. I have spent a day trading in Jita, and went back to Dodixie (for now at least). I have been able to push my profit to about 75M per day, so I am not too unhappy so far, but I don’t think I can do much better until I have more orders.

I will keep studying and planning while I take a decision as to where estabilish myself. I quite like Dodixie so far, but it is mainly due to my (relative) success in trading. I haven’t tried Amarr yet. I think I can start doing a bit of industry at the highsec campus?

The thing that bothers me for now is that I can’t train everything at the moment. I’m training some trade skills (currently Retail V to get to Wholesale and hopefully be able to expand my trading operations: I need more orders!). So meanwhile I don’t train Industry related stuff, and I’m not sure it is worth starting industry until I train a lot more.

I will also have to do more research about hauling, I am not too sure of what I can do in that department, but thank you for bringing this part to my attention.

In that regard, the 3-alts plan seems great (I’m omega btw, yes), but what worries me now is that I’m currently pushing my main towards a trading plan... At the same time, I guess it’s been just a few weeks so it’s not a dramatic loss if I decide to go with industry on this character. I would like to keep this one the main.

I also feel like it is too early for me to think about alts, I feel so clueless still, but I am aware that this all requires a lot of planning.

Again, thank you very much for the input, I really appreciate it. I will keep making ISK for now while I study and plan and train.

PS. Adree Jericho: I would love a class on station trading! I’m getting better, but one of the thing that I haven’t figured exactly yet is offshoring. And many other small things, obviously, like which 3rd party tool to use (still doing everything manually for now). I could use tips and tricks from an experienced trader. :)
I have to return some videotapes.
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Felix Jugo

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Post 2017.02.04 21:19

Re: Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

reach out to the mining campus

Caution: the mining campus usually prefers that its members NOT engage in trading near wherever their current base of operations may be. Trading activity attracts customers and attention, which a highsec mining operation doesn't need and doesn't want.

Think like a ganker: if you want to hunt miners, start by looking where mining equipment is being sold...
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Paledan Safemal

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Post 2017.02.07 00:11

Re: Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

Why do you want to do industry?

If it's for the ISK, you're better off sticking with trade. If it's because you like the notion of building things, then you need to do a lot of reading and prepare to invest a fair amount of skill points and capital.

As others pointed out, there is no need to be near any particular campus for these activities. You might get some ready customers at the HSC if you produce new player friendly stuff, but you'll likely have competition as well. The Uni isn't much of a market - bunch of poors 8)

There are some very decent recorded classes about industry and making ISK, I suggest you listen to some of them to form an idea. Be aware that you'll have to sink millions of skillpoints and a lot of capital if you want to make it your main gameplay, and that unlike things like exploration or pve, these are not skills that you can use for any other purpose. So I'd suggest dipping into it, see if you like it, and experience other things as well before you take a plunge.

Good luck
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Don Silesius

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Post 2017.02.09 01:08

Re: Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

Hello folks!

It has now been a full month since I joined EVE University, and every day I am more and more impressed by the quality of this corporation. It really is an incredible one!

Time has passed, during which I have learned a lot regarding my initial plan. So I felt like this post deserved an update. First, to share my adventures, and tell you about my progress. Second, in respect to people who tried to helped me here. And third, to help anyone in a similar situation who may someday read this.

I want to thank everybody for the input. I really appreciate it.

So, yes, I am determined to pursue a career in industry. Reasons are varied, but I started this game precisely with the idea to build things. I won’t go into more details, but I am determined. I’m not sure how much I knew about this career path when I made the first post, but I now have a pretty good idea of the commitment required, the skill training, the investments and such. And I am still determined to pursue this goal.

I now realize how naive some of my questions were. But you have to understand how lost I was at the time. Since then, a lot of things have changed. I owe the biggest change to the mentor that the University has assigned me, not too long after my last post here. He is a veteran industralist, and has been a tremendous help for me. What did he help me with?

First, the location: the question that is the title of this post. I left Dodixie and moved to the Highsec Campus, and I love it there. At the time of my first post, I didn’t know anything about engineering complexes, so I remember feeling confused when I went to HSC, docked at Citadel 101, and realized I couldn’t do manufacture there! My mentor owns two ECs in the area, for manufacture and for all blueprint needs. So this is now my base of operation, and I’m very happy about it.

Second, he helped me figure out my characters planning. I have to say things escalated quickly there! In my last post here, I was kinda starting to regret having spent time training trade skills on my main already, but I wasn’t ready to move my trading to an alt. My first discussions with my mentor convinced me to let it go. So I moved my main back to HSC, where I can do industry, and join mining fleets and other activities organized by the awesome crew there. I now have a dedicated trading alt stationed in Dodixie, where I continued the little trading operation I started in my first days in New Eden. The thing I didn’t see coming, and that I wasn’t sure about at first, is an hauler alt. My mentor convinced me to start one, and oh boy do I love this hauler alt now! It’s still far from well trained yet and it has already proved to be very useful (just to move stuff in general in war time, but also to support my industry needs, and I also started to do a bit of regional trading, which is proving to be quite profitable so far).

And... I didn’t stop there. My mentor told me about PI, which I didn’t even know existed at the time of my first post. I have trained my main for it, learned tons with the Uni ressources and others, and after two weeks of training I finally setup my little PI operation, and I love it! I love it so much that I started, hrm, another alt, that I’m currently training for more PI, and also to support my main with more industry & research slots.

So yes, things have gotten a lot more organized, thanks to the precious help of my mentor.

I also studied the markets, learned tons about what I could eventually manufacture and not, and I have invested a couple hundred millions in my first BPOs! I have been researching them for some time already. This can be quite slow, so I figured it would be a good idea to start as early as possible. I’m now building a bit of stuff, but most of my income still comes from trading. My hauler alt will be ready to fly an Occator soon, so I will start bringing the stuff I build to my trading alt. Etc., etc.

This is starting to get long, so I will stop here. But I just wanted to tell you that everything is on the right track. I am very happy with the progress I have made so far, and I am still convinced about my choices to go with industry & trading. Separating accounts and specializing alts in various activities has helped me A LOT to get organized and to feel like I’m slowly getting somewhere. So, yes, I will keep working towards that goal, I’m loving it so far, and I’m also really enjoying my time in EVE since I joined the University.

I follow all the classes I can, and they are an incredible ressources, I highly recommend them to newer players. They are very fun, and a lot of information is given there. About that, I want to thank Adree Jericho: last week I assisted to his first class on station trading, as promised higher in this thread! It came a bit late for me, but it allowed me to realize I was now more advanced than I thought in station trading specifically, so it seems like I wasn’t doing that wrong at least. It was a great class, and I highly recommend it. Adree is very generous, and very well organized.

That’s about it for now, folks! That is my little story. Thanks for being so incredibly helpful!
I have to return some videotapes.
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Zeerse Solaris

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Post 2017.02.27 12:51

Re: Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

It's interesting for me to read it as I have been writing some Tech1 industry class slides and wanted to make sure it's the right content, and it looks like it is.

I look forward to you discovering t2 and t3 manufacturing. :)
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Padraic Musbrandt

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Post 2017.02.27 13:14

Re: Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

It's time to break Ersin's monopoly on building things.
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Jack Cavanaugh

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Post 2017.02.27 15:51

Re: Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

@OP: I just got back in the game after 4-ish years away. I'm so rusty I could probably use a class from YOU right now. :P

But I would say your mentor was right to tell you not to worry about the SP investment in your trade/market skills on your main. Personally, I prefer to be a jack of all trades but the alts are a great idea and sort of a necessary evil in EVE. I say "evil" because typically, I don't like juggling multiple accounts in one game but it's advantageous in EVE.

You have to be careful with industry. One day, there's a niche and a profit for something, the next...poof, it's gone. I think for the most part, at least in my experience and with the exception of more rare BPOs it's usually more profitable to buy/sell than to manufacture/sell, where you can often end up with very low profit margins. Not saying that's a 100% rule but I think buy/sell is overall more time/cost effective.

Zeerse Solaris wrote:I'm not sure if Alpha's are restricted in how many alts, even for an omega, you would be faced with additional real money costs of multi character training or pause training on the main to get the other two to acceptable levels.


Nope, go crazy. Make as many alts as you want. You can even use the same email address.
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Don Silesius

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Post 2017.02.27 17:14

Re: Where to establish myself for trading and industry?

Hey guys, thanks for stopping by, I appreciate it. :-) If I can be of any help just let me know, always happy to help.

By the way, Zeerse, I have been trying to catch your industry classes since they have first been annonuced, but they are quite elusive. ;-) I’ll be there for sure when they are scheduled. Thanks for organizing them!

So far everything is going well, I’m getting better with the ore/minerals logistics, and my BPOs are starting to be ready. I kept on my little trading operation in Dodixie, and also expanded with another trading alt in another hub. On a profit point of view, last week has been my best so far, so everything seems on the right track. :D
I have to return some videotapes.
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