PI - Where do you live?

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horse9
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PI - Where do you live?

Post by horse9 »

hey fellow students,

I wanted to pick up PI and I am not sure where to do it. LSC or HSC?
I often came across the statement "everything with 12% taxes and over is not worth it". Does this hold up?

In general I am leaning a lot towards LSC. I am kinda new though and can't really judge the validity of my idea going there.

What are the taxes in those places?
Where are all the PI people of uni doing it?

Maybe someone wanna take my hand and and be my PI buddy?

I am an avid factorio player.
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Tolerin Escipion
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Re: PI - Where do you live?

Post by Tolerin Escipion »

Hey!

I think you also want to consider:
* What for or why you're doing PI?
* How much time you want to dedicate to PI?
* How you're getting everything to market (if needed)?

Bottom line, as usual in EVE, the answer to your question is: "it depends". That being said, due to the changes coming to EUni, I wouldn't put my PI at LSC or HSC, but rather look around Stacmon (you decide if in highsec or lowsec).

Anyways, if you need more help, feel free to ping me.

Fly fun!
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Arkady Marten
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Re: PI - Where do you live?

Post by Arkady Marten »

+1 for Tolerin's answer.

You get a significantly higher yield from extractors in lowsec compared to highsec, even more in null/WH space. Tax rates are only one criterium - the logistics of hauling intermediate stuff between planets and getting the final products out are IMO the more important consideration. For me, doing it in lowsec was a no-brainer - I actually enjoy the gameplay of having to be on my toes when collecting from my planets. You have to be prepared to lose a ship here and there, but with some initial work and due care and attention you can reduce the risk significantly. (I've lost one PI hauler in just over one year.) I recommend training to the Improved Cloaking Device II before doing it in lowsec, however - the MWD-cloak trick is the way to go for getting around in a hauler.

Tax rates in lowsec around LSC are all at 9%, since Snuffed Out took over all the POCOs. The planets seem to be fairly well used, mostly by Unistas, I assume - so much so that I moved a few jumps out into a quieter area where I'm getting better extraction rates. Around Ostingele and in the lowsec pipe between Amoen and Avaux, TW4TS still owns the POCOs, with a favourable tax rate of 5% for us. The highsec tax rates I don't know - never really looked into them of late, tbh. In the medium term, the Uni will accept buyback contracts in Stacmon, so the area around there would be a natural choice to set up shop if you want to do PI in highsec or lowsec. The other option would be to do it in nullsec at NSC - even more yield and probably actually safer compared to lowsec, but further away unless you're based at NSC most of the time anyway.
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horse9
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Re: PI - Where do you live?

Post by horse9 »

Alright, thanks. Those answers are very helpful already.

Tolerin Escipion wrote: 2022.01.25 06:27 * What for or why you're doing PI?
* How much time you want to dedicate to PI?
* How you're getting everything to market (if needed)?

Bottom line, as usual in EVE, the answer to your question is: "it depends". That being said, due to the changes coming to EUni, I wouldn't put my PI at LSC or HSC, but rather look around Stacmon (you decide if in highsec or lowsec).
  • For now: generating passive income and learning
  • 4-8hours a week
  • Uni Buyback or HSC free space truck and haul to Jita

  • What are these upcoming changes?
    I've been looking around the forums but wasn't able to figure it out. The only thing I heard of is that AMC is sort of closing down or beeing relocated. Can you elaborate or link me something else?
  • About Stacmon: Are we moving there? Do we own tax offices there?
    Sorry if these questions seem obvious but these are the kind of things I wasn't able to figure out on my own.


Arkady Marten wrote: 2022.01.25 10:40 You get a significantly higher yield from extractors in lowsec compared to highsec, even...
  • I didn't know it wasn't mainly the tax rate but more so logistics and security and yields! I've considered moving to low or null but figured I couldn't compensate for the losses there should any occur as of now. Also Cloaking II and sufficient hauling, ship and weapon skills are still kinda low or far away.
  • Another eye opener (if I understand this correctly): Planets have a max yield but this is shared between all the parties using the planet?


Arkady Marten wrote: 2022.01.25 10:40 In the medium term, the Uni will accept buyback contracts in Stacmon...
  • That kinda explains what Tolerian said.




TL;DR:
  • Stacmon: When? Why? Will there be a campus?
  • Where can I read about the future plans of UNI? (Or similar relevant information.)
  • What do you think of my scenario I had planned for now:
    • HSC new home base
    • Start PI there
      • Try to really figure out PI
      • Option to make a PI clone should it really take off for me
    • Do my small ore mining there
    • Slowly pick up on industry (apparently all the blueprints are there)
    • In parallel run the Sisters of Eve questline
    • Run missions at Jita for caldari navy
PS
I am not a native speaker so please forgive me if my questions or texts seem rude or kinda odd. I am missing that real exposure to native speakers and their culture. I often get reminded especially when talking to people from the US how vastly different the term polite and friendly are defined in casual conversation.
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Arkady Marten
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Re: PI - Where do you live?

Post by Arkady Marten »

Your plan sounds like a plan - go for it! The campuses have command centres for all the different planets in stock, and they are free for the taking; same goes for PI haulers - if you don't have access to the main hangars yet, just ask in the HSC in-game chat if somebody can grab you what you need. Beyond that, you'll have the setup costs for the PI infrastructure, but you'll recoup that fairly quickly, so don't hesitate to experiment.
  • The info post on the near-future plans for the Uni are here: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 1&t=122583 - you're right, it may not be obvious to find unless you already know to look for the name Uni 2.0. As of today, no specific dates have been announced, but I expect we'll hear more shortly.
  • I don't know whether the Uni owns any POCOs around Stacmon or whether this is planned - for now, assume the answer is no.
  • Getting comfortable being in dangerous space and learning how to keep yourself safe is probably easier in a nimble explo frigate than in a lumbering PI hauler, so starting out in high-sec is certainly a good choice - the move to low or null is of course open to you at any time!
  • Yes, PI extraction resources are shared among all - you'll see hotspots disappearing and respawning all the time, but definitely more frequently on planets that are heavily used. Don't worry if you found a perfect place for your command centre, only to find that the next day your big hotspots nearby have already significantly depleted - there is no way to place it without that happening. You'll still get good extraction rates, even if you can't tap the best hotspots all the time. And the overall abundance numbers that you see in game don't matter all that much when selecting planets, you'll still get good hotspots no matter what - instead just select planets that minimise your travels.
  • Each campus has a BPO library (blueprint originals) where you can make copies for your manufacturing and invention needs. At HSC, this is in the Amygnon - Karpinski Labs ME,TE,Inv structure. More info re how to use the BPO libraries is available at https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Copying_ ... ry_Hangars - most important point is to make sure you select the correct container where your copy will appear.
  • A fair warning re industry however: Doing T1 ship, module or ammo manufacturing gives very little profit and may in fact lose you isk, depending on mineral prices. T1 rig production is often profitable, and the input materials are small-volume, so easy to haul. And T2 stuff is usually profitable to make, but requires invention (with associated skills trained) to get the blueprint copy (BPC) beforehand. You can of course manufacture stuff for your own use, that's totally fine, especially if you just want to see how industry works - but if you think along the lines of, as many apparently do, "I'll just go mine the minerals I need, so I don't need to worry about market prices", then you might in fact be better off isk-wise if you simply sell your minerals instead.
  • The SoE Epic Arc is great if you're just starting out - some good isk as reward for the missions, and it gets you travelling through all the empires on its journey. Definitely recommended!
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Tolerin Escipion
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Re: PI - Where do you live?

Post by Tolerin Escipion »

Arkady Marten wrote: 2022.01.25 15:09 Your plan sounds like a plan - go for it! The campuses have command centres for all the different planets in stock, and they are free for the taking; same goes for PI haulers - if you don't have access to the main hangars yet, just ask in the HSC in-game chat if somebody can grab you what you need. Beyond that, you'll have the setup costs for the PI infrastructure, but you'll recoup that fairly quickly, so don't hesitate to experiment.
  • The info post on the near-future plans for the Uni are here: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 1&t=122583 - you're right, it may not be obvious to find unless you already know to look for the name Uni 2.0. As of today, no specific dates have been announced, but I expect we'll hear more shortly.
  • I don't know whether the Uni owns any POCOs around Stacmon or whether this is planned - for now, assume the answer is no.
  • Getting comfortable being in dangerous space and learning how to keep yourself safe is probably easier in a nimble explo frigate than in a lumbering PI hauler, so starting out in high-sec is certainly a good choice - the move to low or null is of course open to you at any time!
  • Yes, PI extraction resources are shared among all - you'll see hotspots disappearing and respawning all the time, but definitely more frequently on planets that are heavily used. Don't worry if you found a perfect place for your command centre, only to find that the next day your big hotspots nearby have already significantly depleted - there is no way to place it without that happening. You'll still get good extraction rates, even if you can't tap the best hotspots all the time. And the overall abundance numbers that you see in game don't matter all that much when selecting planets, you'll still get good hotspots no matter what - instead just select planets that minimise your travels.
  • Each campus has a BPO library (blueprint originals) where you can make copies for your manufacturing and invention needs. At HSC, this is in the Amygnon - Karpinski Labs ME,TE,Inv structure. More info re how to use the BPO libraries is available at https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Copying_ ... ry_Hangars - most important point is to make sure you select the correct container where your copy will appear.
  • A fair warning re industry however: Doing T1 ship, module or ammo manufacturing gives very little profit and may in fact lose you isk, depending on mineral prices. T1 rig production is often profitable, and the input materials are small-volume, so easy to haul. And T2 stuff is usually profitable to make, but requires invention (with associated skills trained) to get the blueprint copy (BPC) beforehand. You can of course manufacture stuff for your own use, that's totally fine, especially if you just want to see how industry works - but if you think along the lines of, as many apparently do, "I'll just go mine the minerals I need, so I don't need to worry about market prices", then you might in fact be better off isk-wise if you simply sell your minerals instead.
  • The SoE Epic Arc is great if you're just starting out - some good isk as reward for the missions, and it gets you travelling through all the empires on its journey. Definitely recommended!
Couldn't agree more. Pretty much the trick to PI is finding a way to balance everything out, specially when hotspots "move". I was planning to hold a class on PI once campuses move, but since you brought the topic up, might give one earlier. If you need help or more info, no need to wait for the class, just ask away or ping me.
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Koris the Second
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Re: PI - Where do you live?

Post by Koris the Second »

Another thing you might want to consider, maybe after dipping into PI and giving it a go in lowsec - move your PI into null at NSC. There's some very good planets in the pocket, with some scouting and intel sharing it's no problem at all to get to the POCOs and get away with your loot. The Wiki has a pretty nice article on how to generate good passive income using T0 -> T2 production on single planets without using the products in Industry yourself...or you can look which P3/P4 you can produce with what you find at the NSC.

Link to Wiki: https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Planetar ... at_the_NSC
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Re: PI - Where do you live?

Post by Dr Jekyl l »

horse9 wrote: 2022.01.25 14:05
  • 4-8hours a week
Oh my! After the initial setup, which might take a bit of time, 4-8 hours a week spent on PI is outrageous! I spend somewhere in that timeframe to run 100 planets. If you are only managing planets on a few characters and it takes you that long, please get in touch w/ me on mumble someday and we can walk through what you are doing (I will try to find some pointers to save you hours..)
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Re: PI - Where do you live?

Post by horse9 »

Arkady Marten wrote: 2022.01.25 15:09
  • The info post on the near-future plans for the Uni are here: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 1&t=122583 - you're right, it may not be obvious to find unless you already know to look for the name Uni 2.0. As of today, no specific dates have been announced, but I expect we'll hear more shortly.
  • I don't know whether the Uni owns any POCOs around Stacmon or whether this is planned - for now, assume the answer is no.
    Wow. What a ride that post and the FAQ was. Thanks!
  • Getting comfortable being in dangerous space and learning how to keep yourself safe is probably easier in a nimble explo frigate than in a lumbering PI hauler, so starting out in high-sec is certainly a good choice - the move to low or null is of course open to you at any time!
  • Yes, PI extraction resources are shared among all - you'll see hotspots disappearing and respawning all the time, but definitely more frequently on planets that are heavily used. Don't worry if you found a perfect place for your command centre, only to find that the next day your big hotspots nearby have already significantly depleted - there is no way to place it without that happening. You'll still get good extraction rates, even if you can't tap the best hotspots all the time. And the overall abundance numbers that you see in game don't matter all that much when selecting planets, you'll still get good hotspots no matter what - instead just select planets that minimise your travels.
    Alrigth!
  • A fair warning re industry however: Doing T1 ship, module or ammo manufacturing gives very little profit and may in fact lose you isk, depending on mineral prices. T1 rig production is often profitable, and the input materials are small-volume, so easy to haul. And T2 stuff is usually profitable to make, but requires invention (with associated skills trained) to get the blueprint copy (BPC) beforehand. You can of course manufacture stuff for your own use, that's totally fine, especially if you just want to see how industry works - but if you think along the lines of, as many apparently do, "I'll just go mine the minerals I need, so I don't need to worry about market prices", then you might in fact be better off isk-wise if you simply sell your minerals instead.
    Yeah, I already did some calculations and my eyes started hurting from all the red.
  • The SoE Epic Arc is great if you're just starting out - some good isk as reward for the missions, and it gets you travelling through all the empires on its journey. Definitely recommended!
Dr Jekyl l wrote: 2022.01.26 09:43
horse9 wrote: 2022.01.25 14:05
  • 4-8hours a week
Oh my! After the initial setup, which might take a bit of time, 4-8 hours a week spent on PI is outrageous! I spend somewhere in that timeframe to run 100 planets. If you are only managing planets on a few characters and it takes you that long, please get in touch w/ me on mumble someday and we can walk through what you are doing (I will try to find some pointers to save you hours..)

Hahahaha. Alright. I wasn't sure how much this would take. I will get back on that PI session offer.
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