Resource Rich vs Shared Planets

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CapnJakku
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Resource Rich vs Shared Planets

Post by CapnJakku »

I'd appreciate some clarification

I’ve done a lot of reading and prep to set up some PI, but I’m still trying to decide which system/planets to use because I don’t clearly understand a couple things:

1. The effect of resource amount bars on planets

Is there a limit or max input efficiency on the extractor heads or is this harvest amount purely connect to the location of the heads (relative to hotspot) combined with the amount of that given resource on the planet (ie. 5%, 50%, 90% etc)

2. The effect of other players on the planet on resource depletion

How many players have a negative effect on my own resource extraction? I also assume this is connected to what type of resource they are harvesting? I mean we can see how many CCs are on the planet but can’t know what they are producing.

These two questions and how they connect to each other kinda leave me confused a bit. It just leaves me with unanswered questions like… “What is better? A planet with lower resource amounts that nobody else is using OR a resource-rich planet that has many CCs on it”
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Arin Mara
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Re: Resource Rich vs Shared Planets

Post by Arin Mara »

I'm afraid you have stumbled upon one of the great questions of EVE Online. What is the algorithm that governs Cosmic Signature distribution is a question of similar difficulty.

Both of these questions have an exact answer, but discovering it requires an unending number of observations and a way to isolate variables. However, rules of thumb for Planetary Industry do exist:
  • find a planet that has a low tax rate
  • find a planet from which you can safely transport the Products to a Market
  • be ready to switch production and extraction if your Product is in low demand and high supply
When I studied the difference between the output of Wormhole, Null Security and Low Security Planets I found the difference in extraction to be negligible. What will decide the profitability of your Planetary Industry are tax rates, how safe is the transport route to the market and market performance itself. :)
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CapnJakku
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Re: Resource Rich vs Shared Planets

Post by CapnJakku »

Arin Mara wrote: 2021.10.04 20:51 When I studied the difference between the output of Wormhole, Null Security and Low Security Planets I found the difference in extraction to be negligible. What will decide the profitability of your Planetary Industry are tax rates, how safe is the transport route to the market and market performance itself. :)
Very interesting response Arin! ....and definitely not the one I expected :D however your tips are noted!

In regards to this last comment you made - are you saying that you found the difference in extraction between planets with various resource quantities to be negligible?

The reason I ask is because I was planning on selecting systems or planets based on the resources they have in higher quantities, and then choosing some higher value products to make from the list of products that can be made on those planets.

Unless I misunderstood, if I do PI in NS, you're basically saying that apart from an efficient setup and safe-ish route... The most important factors for revenue are tax rate + product demand and not resource abundance?
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Arkady Marten
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Re: Resource Rich vs Shared Planets

Post by Arkady Marten »

I think one thing that all of us doing PI can agree, the abundance indicators that you see in game have very little bearing on how much you'll actually be able to get from the planet. The abundance seems to be calculated as a planet-wide average, but if you place your extractors in a location with hotspots that then happen to respawn within range, you'll get a good extraction rate even if the overall abundance is low. On planets with higher abundance, you simply tend to have more hotspots and thus more options for placing your extractors. This can make a difference if you're looking to extract two P0 products, in which case it helps to have the extractors geographically close to minimise PG needs for the links. (Keep half an eye on the size of the planet too - if it comes down to deciding between two that are otherwise similar regarding hotspot potentials, location, tax rate, etc., take the smaller one.)

In specific answer to your original question, then, I don't think that the extraction rate of a head is being multiplied by the overall abundance of the planet, it only depends on the amount that's in the hotspot you're currently extracting from. And the hotspots all seem to have similar amounts in them, no matter how high the overall abundance on a planet.

Regarding the second question: In my experience, it does make a difference how popular a planet is - I've moved my PI setup a few times already, and (at least in my low-sec experience) I do get higher extraction from planets that are in quieter systems further out. Of course, this only matters for extraction setups, not factory planets. Arin's consideration regarding transportation routes then definitely comes into play also - are you willing to regularly do 5 additional jumps through potentially dangerious territory for a little extra return on initial investment? If, like me, you consider the transportation of the products to be interesting-enough gameplay in itself, then go for it. Otherwise, make things easier for yourself by basing your operations close to where you can convert your products to isk.
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Arin Mara
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Re: Resource Rich vs Shared Planets

Post by Arin Mara »

Hear hear, well said Arkady! :)

I am saying that I found the difference in extraction between planets (in Low, Null and Wormhole Security Regions) with various resource quantities to be negligible (relative to the effect of variables I've cited), correct.

See the abundances at the Null Security Campus. Their Planets are more abundant then those near the Low Security Campus. However, once I moved my Planetary Industry to the Null Security Campus I found that the added abundance was negligible compared to the risk I had to take to travel to the Campus and move Products to the Market.

In the end, I moved back to the Low Security Campus, converted all Planets into Factory Planets, created a custom Market model in Google Sheets, imported all Products from Dodixie at 100% Sell, sold the outputs to the High Security Campus at 95% Jita Buy and made a much greater profit, about 8M per Planet per day. ;)
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CapnJakku
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Re: Resource Rich vs Shared Planets

Post by CapnJakku »

Arin Mara wrote: 2021.10.05 13:50 Hear hear, well said Arkady! :)
Right?!?!? Thanks so much Arkady. Even though my question could've been clearer, you answered it perfectly! :D
Arin Mara wrote: 2021.10.05 13:50 See the abundances at the Null Security Campus. Their Planets are more abundant then those near the Low Security Campus. However, once I moved my Planetary Industry to the Null Security Campus I found that the added abundance was negligible compared to the risk I had to take to travel to the Campus and move Products to the Market.

In the end, I moved back to the Low Security Campus, converted all Planets into Factory Planets, created a custom Market model in Google Sheets, imported all Products from Dodixie at 100% Sell, sold the outputs to the High Security Campus at 95% Jita Buy and made a much greater profit, about 8M per Planet per day. ;)
Firstly thanks for the NSC abundance spreadsheet. Useful!

After your comments, and factoring in Arkady's explanation, I think I'll maybe just use my two initial characters to do a PI near each of LSC and NSC so I can sample both.

I don't really understand how Buyback works at NSC/LSC per the wiki, but I'll ask in discord for more details maybe. I guess you shipped from LSC to HSC because it's the best return (since HS hauling safer I assume)?

Obviously your factory-only setup was a large factor in the extra profit, but I assume you also included lost income from ships/commodities being killed while doing PI in NSC vs LSC?
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Arin Mara
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Re: Resource Rich vs Shared Planets

Post by Arin Mara »

If you can, do try Planetary Industry at both the Null and Low Security Campuses. There are just too many variables and unknowns for me to tell you which is better for you a priori. :)

The Null, Low and Wormhole Campuses have a Lootsheet based Buyback Program while the High Security Campus uses a Contract based Buyback Program. Here is my comparative analysis of both. :) Because of those reasons I only use the High Security Buyback Service.

Correct, I did account for ship loss in my profit calculations. :)
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CapnJakku
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Re: Resource Rich vs Shared Planets

Post by CapnJakku »

Arin Mara wrote: 2021.10.06 06:28 If you can, do try Planetary Industry at both the Null and Low Security Campuses. There are just too many variables and unknowns for me to tell you which is better for you a priori. :)

The Null, Low and Wormhole Campuses have a Lootsheet based Buyback Program while the High Security Campus uses a Contract based Buyback Program. Here is my comparative analysis of both. :) Because of those reasons I only use the High Security Buyback Service.

Correct, I did account for ship loss in my profit calculations. :)
You rock. Thanks Arin. :cheers:

Being a noob I'll probably end up losing more ISK trying to haul to HSC rather than using local buybacks... But that's a problem for another day :book:
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Tremitry Darkstar
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Re: Resource Rich vs Shared Planets

Post by Tremitry Darkstar »

So, PI in general is "inexpensive" and by that, I mean you'll probably spend 10-20 million (or less than that) setting up 5 planets. Command centers are under 100k a piece, and setting up a single planet will only cost a few million in build costs. If I recall, tearing down and moving my entire infrastructure on a planet at WHC costs a little over 1.5 million. As far as giving something a shot, PI is one of the least expensive things you could experiment with.

You're asking a lot of questions, which I understand, because you want to make choices that are as informed as possible. However, my advice is to just try it somewhere. It's fine if you make some mistakes. I initially experimented with one planet in high-sec, just to get an idea of how it worked. And it's fine if you're not 100% optimized. I'm not... mostly because I just don't care enough to put the time and effort necessary to be as optimal as I could be. I'd rather spend that time and effort doing other things, like shooting stuff.
-Tremitry Darkstar
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CapnJakku
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Re: Resource Rich vs Shared Planets

Post by CapnJakku »

Tremitry Darkstar wrote: 2021.10.07 02:45 You're asking a lot of questions, which I understand, because you want to make choices that are as informed as possible. However, my advice is to just try it somewhere. It's fine if you make some mistakes. I initially experimented with one planet in high-sec, just to get an idea of how it worked. And it's fine if you're not 100% optimized. I'm not... mostly because I just don't care enough to put the time and effort necessary to be as optimal as I could be. I'd rather spend that time and effort doing other things, like shooting stuff.
Point taken and I know you're only being helpful. But to be clear I'm not asking these questions because I'm picky and I want to have a perfect setup (which doesn't exist) before I get started.

I've asked these questions because:
1. I am training the required skills, so can't do anything until then anyways
2. Due to my chill job that has long hours, I don't have much time to play since I joined.... but have plenty of time to familiarize myself with and engage with others across all the EVE Uni community platforms
3. Discuss EVE - I just enjoy talking about all these different subjects so when I can log in for an hour I'm not spending it reading the wiki. Plus it literally keeps me awake, lol

This game has so many levels, and some people just want to log in and shoot. Some people come for the community. Some want to make money and/or collect everything. Others want to number crunch and optimize.

At the end of the day, im sitting at work with nothing to do and can't log in to play. Luckily it's EVE University - the people are amazing, the resources are amazing - and I feel empowered as an eager student to ask questions :D
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Arin Mara
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Re: Resource Rich vs Shared Planets

Post by Arin Mara »

CapnJakku wrote: 2021.10.07 05:48 This game has so many levels, and some people just want to log in and shoot. Some people come for the community. Some want to make money and/or collect everything. Others want to number crunch and optimize.
Hear hear! :)

I think I'm in the last category. :P hahahahhahaha
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