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Question re: receiving reps in a fleet with logi support

Posted: 2020.11.08 12:58
by Arkady Marten
Background: I was part of the Uni fleet a couple of weeks ago where we yeeted out to Delve and got ourselves welped in 1DQ. We were in the Brawling Cruisers doctrine with about 15 pilots in Ruptures and Mallers plus 6 logi. It was my first ever fleet with logi support. We got jumped on by a large Goonswarm fleet of Harpys and Jackdaws and died in a glorious ball of fire.

I assume we didn't have much of a chance against the hornets' nest we stirred up in 1DQ, but a question came to me afterward regarding reps that might be relevant for a more evenly matched fight:

I flew one of the Mallers: I was taking damage early on in that fight, broadcasted for reps, and with logi support was tanking quite well. Before long, I got scrammed, lost the MWD speed boost, and was therefore unable to keep up with the rest of the fleet. Already at the switch from the initial to the second target, the new one was beyond my weapons range.

Should I have broadcasted to stop the reps on me at that point?

If I had done so, I would probably have gone down within seconds, but it would have freed up reps for someone who still had damage on the primary.

On the other hand, I kept a fair number of enemy dd occupied with shooting me, thus not going after anyone else while not really making any headway on my ship. (I got down to about half armour and only died after the FC called scatter.)

What might be considered the better strategy here? Maybe not broadcasting was in any case the right thing to do, because it is up to the logi commander to decide who gets reps - I don't know. I would imagine in this fight it wouldn't have mattered either way, because likely more of us were simultaneously taking damage than the logi squad could keep up with. But in a more evenly matched fight, would you want to sacrifice one ship in order to rep another that is still shooting the primary? Would love to hear from more experienced pilots and gain some insights here.

Re: Question re: receiving reps in a fleet with logi support

Posted: 2020.11.08 13:40
by Mike Kingswell
My opinion as long time logi:

ALLWAYS broadcast for reps if you (are about to) take damage.
It's up to the logiFC or the logi pilots to prioritise who gets the reps. Your broadcast signals your need for repairs. If you don't broadcast you might be overlooked in the heat of battle and not be taken into consideration.

Most of the time you can assume that the enemy is coordinating their attacks and not hitting random targets all over - so if you take the main damage of the fleet it is you who will need/get the reps. Things get tricky if the enemy is splitting damage on more than one target. But thats when logi has fun :)

Re: Question re: receiving reps in a fleet with logi support

Posted: 2020.11.08 14:05
by Gyrgon
Arkady Marten wrote: Should I have broadcasted to stop the reps on me at that point?
I agree with Mike. You did your job by broadcasting for reps. Your job as DD in a fleet is not to speculate on the roles of others or to take their decisions away from them, but to trust that they will do theirs as you do yours. Their job is to see who needs reps and give them, if possible. Only if there are not enough reps to go around or due to some other factors you, as DD, probably don't have a good overview over during a fight will they prioritize and allocate reps accordingly. You don't know if anyone else is taking damage, or how much, etc. You just don't have the information to make an informed decision on that point while others do, so let them make it.

Re: Question re: receiving reps in a fleet with logi support

Posted: 2020.11.17 09:37
by Arkady Marten
Thanks, Mike and Gyrgon, for your insights! These considerations definitely make sense.

Re: Question re: receiving reps in a fleet with logi support

Posted: 2020.11.27 12:03
by Zoltan Irvam

normally in combat fleets you don't broadcast "In Position" to show that you don't need reps any more. It is only semi-helpful in small fleets where all fleet members fit on the watchlist (and have different symbols beside their name depending on their last broadcast).
In Incursion fleets it's considered good style to do so.

In larger fleets, where there is not enough space on the watchlist, logi just looks at the broadcast list and thus having less unimportant broadcasts gives logi a better chance to see the relevant ones.


Re: Question re: receiving reps in a fleet with logi support

Posted: 2020.11.29 02:13
by Gergoran Moussou
Like Zoltan said, this sort of thing doesn't happen in a PVP context.

E-Uni members typically have a lot more experience with advanced PVE content such as Incursions than PVP, and when I was in E-Uni, I noticed a tendency to apply certain practices that would work well in Incursion fleets to PVP situations despite it not working well there. Most PVE content in this game is very formulaic, particularly the stuff that gets run in fleets (the least formulaic being Abyssal filaments). When you have to deal with the human factor in your adversary, what mistakes they might make, what unexpected things they might pull, formulaic is not what's going to happen. You might have a general idea what's going on, but you don't know exactly how the encounter works in the same way.

There's also generally not such a thing as "logi commander." There's typically a logi anchor in cap-chain fleets (and sometimes in cap-stable fleets, but for everyone besides Northern Coalition, I've generally seen those anchor on the DPS anchor), and most corporations/alliances/coalitions have their fleet comms organized so that logi has their own subchannel where there's usually one person talking with a bit more authority than others, but this isn't really nearly the sort of authority that an FC has. The role is generally just to point out who in particular needs repairs.

When you broadcast for repair, you don't need to broadcast that you're done. As a logi pilot (who has logi-anchored in some really big fights, the most interesting being the big Low-Sec fights in Lantorn over a Snuffed Out structure a few months ago), I know that you're done being primaried because someone else broadcasts since the enemy fleet is typically only primarying one target at a time. This is also why it's important to not broadcast for bomb damage unless you're getting low.