Gate Camp/Debris Mechanics

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Noh Luciola

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Post 2019.12.11 05:08

Gate Camp/Debris Mechanics

So I was making the jaunt from Rens to Jita the other day and came up to the junction of Rancer->Crielere that had all sorts of debris scattered in the proximity of the gate - I'd assume to decloak ships coming into Rancer from the adjacent system. Luckily I warped to 100km first to take a look at it and was able to turn tail in the other direction.

The debris in this instance was just a bunch of cheap drones. Not that it matters I suppose.

If I simply jump to gate will all the debris keep me from jumping through - similarly on the other side, assuming I'm on the ball, can debris crowding the gate keep me from getting into warp?
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Ernesto Guevarti

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Post 2019.12.11 11:28

Re: Gate Camp/Debris Mechanics

The debris will have zero affect if you are warping to the gate, especially if you warp at zero, it won't stop you jumping. Its designed to decloak anyone jumping in through that gate (or more correctly stop them cloaking), so is designed to catch covops, etc which would normally warp cloaked. It won't stop you warping off, or burning back to the gate.

I'd also avoid warping to 100 in well camped systems, as its not uncommon to find a can or other debris at the 100km warp in points from the other gates, which will decloak you when you land.

The other thing about Rancer, its well known for smart bombing battleships, that will sit off the gate in the direction of the other gate(s), if you pass through them you will suffer damage even if you are cloaked, and if you are unlucky enough to land near them when you jump through the gate they will instantly start damaging you, gate cloak not withstanding. You really want tacs set up there completely out of line with the gates and other celestials that you can warp to and then warp to the gate from there avoiding the smart bomb radius.
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Noh Luciola

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Post 2019.12.11 20:27

Re: Gate Camp/Debris Mechanics

Ernesto Guevarti wrote: I'd also avoid warping to 100 in well camped systems, as its not uncommon to find a can or other debris at the 100km warp in points from the other gates, which will decloak you when you land.


Yeah I almost got caught by this. I tried to warn another Unista (who shall remain nameless) before they warped in - but not in time unfortunately.

Ernesto Guevarti wrote: The other thing about Rancer, its well known for smart bombing battleships, that will sit off the gate in the direction of the other gate(s), if you pass through them you will suffer damage even if you are cloaked, and if you are unlucky enough to land near them when you jump through the gate they will instantly start damaging you, gate cloak not withstanding. You really want tacs set up there completely out of line with the gates and other celestials that you can warp to and then warp to the gate from there avoiding the smart bomb radius.


The problem with the Crielere gate (in Rancer) was that it sits so far out that it was a bit difficult to set up a safe out of line with the rest of the system (and within Dscan range). Well, difficult to do it in a pinch, I got a bit spooked so headed back to Rens. I should probably go back and map it out more comprehensively at some point. Just not with a bunch of expensive cargo sitting in my hold.

How much/what kind of damage should I realistically expect to have to tank from a battleship smart bomb?

(https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Smartbombs so can I assume >1k EHP and I should be okay?)
Last edited by Noh Luciola on 2019.12.11 23:06, edited 4 times in total.
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Ernesto Guevarti

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Post 2019.12.11 20:34

Re: Gate Camp/Debris Mechanics

Noh Luciola wrote:The problem with the Crielere gate (in Rancer) was that it sits so far out that it was a bit difficult to set up a safe out of line with the rest of the system and within Dscan range.

Just head there during a quiet time (look at zkill or dotlan) in a fast frigate and just burn a couple of tacs, if you are primarily using a covops cloak fitted ship they only need to be a few 100km off the gate, and once you are that far off its not a big deal to just continue burning away from the gate until you are off grid (I find 15,000kms to normally be enough), its not like anyone can easily catch you if you're using an MWD.
Daniel Wittaker wrote:You could have a bright career ahead of you in Goonforums. That's some upvote-quality Helldump posting. Well done, sir.
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Noh Luciola

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Post 2019.12.11 22:37

Re: Gate Camp/Debris Mechanics

Is it best always to "warp to 0" then manually execute jump when heading through a gate, or is it safe enough to simply use the "jump" command?

I've had some trouble finding a definitive answer online:

https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/topic/448939/

The wiki for warp mechanics seems to advocate "warp to 0" but doesn't explicitly say to avoid using "jump":

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Warp_mechanics

Are the two roughly equivalent?
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Zeroniss

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Post 2019.12.16 00:29

Re: Gate Camp/Debris Mechanics

Noh Luciola wrote:Is it best always to "warp to 0" then manually execute jump when heading through a gate, or is it safe enough to simply use the "jump" command?

I've had some trouble finding a definitive answer online:

https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/topic/448939/

The wiki for warp mechanics seems to advocate "warp to 0" but doesn't explicitly say to avoid using "jump":

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Warp_mechanics

Are the two roughly equivalent?



It comes down to your ping.

If you have a relatively low ping, your client will register that you have exited warp faster and consequently queue the next command you give it faster (jump). If you have a ping > 100ms, that means it will happen on the next server tick from the one in which you click jump (i.e. you're materially on grid for 1s longer than otherwise). If you have a ridiculously high ping, it may take longer.

Autojump will simply attempt to jump you by automatically submitting the jump command on exiting warp, irrespective of your input.

Honestly the real reason to not always use auto-jump is if for some reason you may not want to jump through as soon as you land on the gate (e.g. you are scouting and someone jumps into system that you want to get a look at before leaving). In that instance you can also always cancel jump (CTRL+Space by default) while in warp and it will stop the queued jump command.
Noh Luciola wrote:
Ernesto Guevarti wrote: I'd also avoid warping to 100 in well camped systems, as its not uncommon to find a can or other debris at the 100km warp in points from the other gates, which will decloak you when you land.


Yeah I almost got caught by this. I tried to warn another Unista (who shall remain nameless) before they warped in - but not in time unfortunately.

Ernesto Guevarti wrote: The other thing about Rancer, its well known for smart bombing battleships, that will sit off the gate in the direction of the other gate(s), if you pass through them you will suffer damage even if you are cloaked, and if you are unlucky enough to land near them when you jump through the gate they will instantly start damaging you, gate cloak not withstanding. You really want tacs set up there completely out of line with the gates and other celestials that you can warp to and then warp to the gate from there avoiding the smart bomb radius.


The problem with the Crielere gate (in Rancer) was that it sits so far out that it was a bit difficult to set up a safe out of line with the rest of the system (and within Dscan range). Well, difficult to do it in a pinch, I got a bit spooked so headed back to Rens. I should probably go back and map it out more comprehensively at some point. Just not with a bunch of expensive cargo sitting in my hold.

How much/what kind of damage should I realistically expect to have to tank from a battleship smart bomb?

(https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Smartbombs so can I assume >1k EHP and I should be okay?)


Theoretically the maximum damage from a single ship you can face is 375*8 = 3,000 EM damage (Imp Navy EM Larges do the most damage of any smart bomb and also have the greatest radius so are the preferred option - x 8 because that is how many highslots typical smartbombing BS have; Rokh, Abaddon, Machariel, etc all large model ships to maximize the smartbomb radius).

You will frequently also find 2 smartbomb BS double up at the camp spot specifically to catch ships who are trying to survive the jump tick, so then the amount to survive becomes 6,000 EM damage. EHP is a bit of a hit or miss indicator in this regard since if you're taking average resist profiles into consideration, it won't give you an accurate estimation on survivability. On the other hand, you may occasionally get the odd genius/idiot/sheer lucky camper who fits something other than the standardized smartbombs, and so blows you out of the water any way.

There are purported smartbomb tanking interceptor fits out there but they have hit or miss viability - for example if all the smartbombs do not hit you within the same tick you arrive and you jump out, it becomes a moot point as well.

You can also use cov ops cloaked ships for such journeys, particularly in lowsec, since their cloaked nature throws off the smartbombers timing - by the time you are decloaked by something you may already be jumping out.
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Noh Luciola

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Post 2019.12.19 02:42

Re: Gate Camp/Debris Mechanics

Thanks much for all the info!!!

Zeroniss wrote:
It comes down to your ping.

If you have a relatively low ping, your client will register that you have exited warp faster and consequently queue the next command you give it faster (jump). If you have a ping > 100ms, that means it will happen on the next server tick from the one in which you click jump (i.e. you're materially on grid for 1s longer than otherwise). If you have a ridiculously high ping, it may take longer.

Autojump will simply attempt to jump you by automatically submitting the jump command on exiting warp, irrespective of your input.

Honestly the real reason to not always use auto-jump is if for some reason you may not want to jump through as soon as you land on the gate (e.g. you are scouting and someone jumps into system that you want to get a look at before leaving). In that instance you can also always cancel jump (CTRL+Space by default) while in warp and it will stop the queued jump command.


Yeah most of the resources online indicate there is little difference between "0" and "Jump"... at least from the standpoint of making a quick exit...

Are these mechanics similar to those for a station ("warp to 0" vs "Dock")?

(NM just watched the instadock video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKmn3ra ... e=youtu.be)

Zeroniss wrote:Theoretically the maximum damage from a single ship you can face is 375*8 = 3,000 EM damage (Imp Navy EM Larges do the most damage of any smart bomb and also have the greatest radius so are the preferred option - x 8 because that is how many highslots typical smartbombing BS have; Rokh, Abaddon, Machariel, etc all large model ships to maximize the smartbomb radius).

You will frequently also find 2 smartbomb BS double up at the camp spot specifically to catch ships who are trying to survive the jump tick, so then the amount to survive becomes 6,000 EM damage. EHP is a bit of a hit or miss indicator in this regard since if you're taking average resist profiles into consideration, it won't give you an accurate estimation on survivability. On the other hand, you may occasionally get the odd genius/idiot/sheer lucky camper who fits something other than the standardized smartbombs, and so blows you out of the water any way.


At present I am at just over 6k for shields (for EM damage) so hopefully I'll be able to handle a dual smartbomb BS situation (I'd initially looked up just the damage for a single bomb, not a full rack of eight).

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