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Please help on mechanics: the freighter webbing trick

PostPosted: 2018.05.10 07:03
by Raven Marley
Hello Eve Uni,

this topic might also belong into the trade category, however I decided to post it in the PVP section as I guess that more of you might be familiar with aggression mechanics here.

So what's the deal? I recently trained an alt who is a member of an NPC corp to be a freighter pilot. Now I want to speed up deliveries by webbing the freighter after aligning so that it enters warp more quickly.

My questions are related to the webbing frigate: I read that the pilot must be in the same corp as the freighter pilot in order to avoid an aggression timer which would lead to the destruction of the webbing ship in hisec.

1) So it would not be suffcient if both pilots simply formed a fleet?

2) If both pilots are members of the same corp, but corp rules forbid friendly fire, does this mean that the frigate cannot web the freighter unpunished either?

Thank you for making this one clear for me.


Re: Please help on mechanics: the freighter webbing trick

PostPosted: 2018.05.10 09:10
by Cassiel Seraphim
1) No, forming a fleet doesn't change what's legal and what isn't.
2) Correct, if friendly fire is forbidden then you will not be able to activate any offensive modules such as webs, painters, guns, missiles etc on a fellow corp mate (technically you can, if you turn off your safeties and then do it, but then you'd become a criminal and get destroyed by CONCORD if done in high security space).

Secret option number 3 exists though, it's called duelling. You can setup a duel with your own alt (or fellow corp mate in a no friendly fire corp) which gives you both a Limited Engagement Timer for 5 minutes. For the duration of the timer, while you're "duelling", you are free to web and shoot each other at will. And each time you do, the timer will extend for another 5 minutes. So as long as you're webbing the freighter every 5 minutes (ie, as long as you're fast enough to make each jump within 5 minutes) you only have to do this once when you start, then it'll last until you stop webbing. Worse case scenario, you just reapply the duel.

You can read more on duels here: Duels & Limited Engagements

Personally I'm not a fan of leaving duelling requests open, as some people take it upon themselves to annoy other players by mass-sending requests for duels to someone. Hoping they either get disrupted enough to be annoyed, or as an actual tactic to delay your actions or trick you into accidentally accepting the duel.

Re: Please help on mechanics: the freighter webbing trick

PostPosted: 2018.05.10 09:52
by Raven Marley
Thank you Cassiel! That really made it clear to me. :)

Re: Please help on mechanics: the freighter webbing trick

PostPosted: 2018.05.10 12:35
by Decklin Quark Reiger
Just to add to Cass' response - I would recommend that on your freighter pilot, you set the option to auto-reject all duel invitations. Always initiate the duel from the freighter pilot to your webber alt. That way you can't accidentally accept a duel request from a hostile party to your freighter.

Re: Please help on mechanics: the freighter webbing trick

PostPosted: 2018.11.17 20:24
by Lokajit Nakrar
The mechanics of webifying a freighter into warp depend on web strength, freighter top speed while being webbed, whether or not the webifyer is within range of the freighter after jumping a gate, and the freighter's inertia modifier.

In theory, webbing a freighter when it has accelerated to 75% of its webbed top speed (not the unwebbed top speed) will make it enter warp the moment the webifiers are applied. The reason this is incredibly useful is because a freighter takes 2-5 seconds to reach that critical 75% webbed top speed while it may take more than 30 seconds to reach 75% top unwebbed speed.

Here is what effect the factors listed in the first paragraph have on how long it takes to enter warp while being webbed:

- The greater the web strength, the faster the freighter can enter warp. This is determined by how many webs are being applied and how much each web slows down the freighter. No web = ~ 30 seconds, 1 web = ~5 seconds, 2 webs = ~3 seconds, 3 webs = ~2 seconds to reach 75% webbed top speed.

- Freighters have a top speed that can be seen when hovering over the "+" symbol on the ship interface. As with all ships, they will enter warp once they reach exactly 75% of that top speed. When using webs however, the freighter doesn't need to reach 75% of it's top speed, it just needs to reach 20% of its top speed (assuming 2x -55% webs are used)

- If the webifyier is within range of the freighter after both decloak, the web can occur perfectly, if it's not within range, then the freighter will take longer to warp since the webifyer must travel to the freighter. This can be solved by letting the webifyer know where the freighter pilot is relative to the stargate so the webifyer can approach the freighter and get within web range before the freighter decloaks.

- The greater the inertia modifier, the better the acceleration and consequently, the quicker the ship will enter warp or 20% of its top speed (and then warp if 2x -55% Wales are applied).

A little bit of math needs to be done to figure out when exactly to apply the webs.

You need your freighter's webbed top speed multiplied by 0.75 and that's the speed you will enter warp when webbed. So if the freighter's top speed is 24 m/s when webbed then it will enter warp at 18 m/s. Here is how you time this properly:
1. Look to see what's around. If you suspect that there are gankers on grid, talk to the freighter pilot to find out where they are so you know how far the gankers are from the freighter and can make sure you are in web range.
2. Allow the freighter to decloak and start the warp process, don't web it yet.
3. Target the freighter as quick as you can and watch the its velocity closely.
4. When it hits ~15 m/s web the freighter (15 not 18 to account for server ping).

You will observe the webs being applied and then in the next moment, you will lose target lock because the freighter has entered warp. This works best if the freighter starts its warp from a full stop and it doesn't even need to be aligned when the webs are applied. Also note that inertia stabilizers will be almost completely useless when using webs since the freighter already has a very low inertia modifier.

If the webs are applied sooner than when the freighter hits 15 m/s, the freighter will fail to enter warp and will probably be destroyed by the gankers. If the webs are timed perfectly, the freighter will only be exposed for 3 seconds (which is the time it takes to accelerate to 15 m/s) and the gankers will have less than 2 seconds to react.

If the gankers are really close to the the freighter or the cargo/collateral is high value however, let the freighter stay cloaked and have the webifyer equip 3 or 4 webs to give the gankers less than one second to react. Recalculate the timing on the webs as well - to prevent a failure.

Re: Please help on mechanics: the freighter webbing trick

PostPosted: 2018.11.19 15:45
by Zoltan Irvam

my routine is to use the webber alt in a t1 frig with 3 or 4 webs as a +1 scout and see what is happening at the gate. I then warp to a ping (sometimes people have put random objects on grid at 150km+ - these are good) and then jump in the freighter and hold cloak.

I then warp back to my fleetmate, the freighter pilot (this brings me into range), check that my duel is still on, pre-activate my webs on the webber, initate warp on the freighter, wait a second or two and lock up the freighter. When I have a lock, the webs engage and the freighter is warping off - looks rather funny...

Then you should gtfo with the webber alt as you get flashy. You will not be able to jump to the next system right away due to the aggression timer - so warping to a ping is advised or hope nobody wants to pop a T1 frig for lolz.