Federation Day Thorax FFA Proving Ground Theory Crafting

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Kelon Darklight
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Title: Royal Champion of House Tash-Murkon, Chatty Kelon, Master Baiter, Graduate

Federation Day Thorax FFA Proving Ground Theory Crafting

Post by Kelon Darklight »

Been looking at the ruleset for the next proving grounds, and oh my what a ruleset:

This filament allows a fleet containing a single capsuleer to enter an Abyssal Proving Ground for a fight to the death against three other capsuleers.
The ship allowed to enter this proving ground event is the Thorax.
All ships within this proving ground will receive a bonus that decreases turret optimal range by 50%, increases turret falloff by 50%, and that doubles the benefits gained from overheating the following module groups: Tackle Modules, Propulsion Modules, Repair Modules, Resistance Modules, Energy Warfare Modules, Turrets, and Launchers.
During this proving ground event a large Tachyon Cloud with a 40km radius will be located in the center of the arena. Ships located within this cloud will receive an additional bonus that increases velocity by 300% and decreases ship inertia by 50%.

Pilots equipped with modules, implants, and boosters with a meta level higher than 4 (Tech 1 and named modules) will not be able to enter this proving ground.
Sensor dampeners, weapon disruptors, shield boost amplifiers, shield rechargers, shield power relays, shield flux coils, and core defense field purgers are banned in this proving format.
Ships entering this proving ground may have a maximum of one local repair module fitted (shield or armor).

The proving ground event accessed through this filament will be accessible from June 24th to June 27th, YC124.

Basically it looks like they want to try to encourage man brawling by reducing optimal range, to discourage anything silly like rail kiting, and increase falloff to help give some more range. So looking at hybrids closely, none of the ammos actually increase falloff, so while short range ammo gets a buff typically for blasters, as you are gaining about 3+ km falloff while only loosing 1km optimal, it gets worse and worse for the longer range ammos. Then the crazy speed buff within 40km of the middle, which makes mwd fits go about 6 km/s base and ab fits go 2.1 km/s. Which leads me into trying to discover the best fit to run with.

Also no pictures this time cause I was having trouble getting the overrides to do what I wanted them to do so the numbers aren't correct.

First thing I looked at was the typical blaster fit
Spoiler
[Thorax, meta 4 FFA 300% B]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Vortex Compact Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Vortex Compact Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Mark I Compact Reactor Control Unit
Photonic Upgraded Co-Processor

10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Thermal Shield Reinforcer I


Valkyrie I x5


Standard Sooth Sayer Booster
does 400+ dps cold within antimatter range and another 100 dps off drones, which is alot of dps, but it does require closing in which may be hard to do with ab fits. Which lead me to taking a look at a possible rail fit:
Spoiler
[Thorax, meta 4 FFA 300% R]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Vortex Compact Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Type-D Restrained Nanofiber Structure
Mark I Compact Reactor Control Unit
Photonic Upgraded Co-Processor

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
Initiated Compact Warp Scrambler
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

200mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Hybrid Ambit Extension I


Valkyrie I x5
It has with the bonus 6.5km optimal and 21km optimal with 280 dps, but long range is where the optimal negative is really felt, instead of doing 117 out to 43+ 14, it will instead do it out to 21.5 + 21, which is much shorter range! I still think rails could work but they may end up being more of a short range brawler than normal.

Another thing I noticed as it didn't actually mention hybrid lock, just turrets, which lead me into looking into winmatar fits.
Spoiler
[Thorax, meta 4 FFA 300% ac v2]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer
Mark I Compact Power Diagnostic System

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender

425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I


Vespa I x5


Standard Sooth Sayer Booster
The close range ammo looses 750m optimal but gains with this fit and drug almost 10km falloff, which puts it at 30km falloff with fusion/emp/pp. I dislike buffer fits though, and tweaked it a bit to give it some sustain
Spoiler
[Thorax, meta 4 FFA 300% ac v2.1]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer
Mark I Compact Reactor Control Unit

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 150

425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I


Vespa I x5


Standard Sooth Sayer Booster
long as you get all the charges off its about the same hp and its much faster to reload this than to wait for regen if you manage to get some time to yourself. Dps is 270 but that is assuming they are in your face, but you will be able to apply dps from pretty far away and have selectable damage if that helps out. Then I was curious what the artillery version of this looks like:
Spoiler
[Thorax, meta 4 FFA 300% art v1]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer
Mark I Compact Reactor Control Unit
Mark I Compact Power Diagnostic System

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large Ancillary Shield Booster
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Arch Angel Phased Plasma M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Arch Angel Phased Plasma M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Arch Angel Phased Plasma M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Arch Angel Phased Plasma M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Arch Angel Phased Plasma M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I


Vespa I x5


Standard Sooth Sayer Booster
Whoops wrong ammo loaded, but with the bonuses it does 200 selectable dps with 7.5km optimal and 40km of falloff! That is alot of range, this seems like it might be the lead competitor for an actual kite fit with the ruleset, as it has the most falloff to benefit from the rules and can actually poke pretty far away. With only 200 dps this will struggle to kill some of the more tanky setups though, so make sure you keep your drones alive, and stay outside of the 40km bubble of doom in the middle.

Might take a further look later but these are my first thoughts on the proving grounds.
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Kelon Darklight
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Title: Royal Champion of House Tash-Murkon, Chatty Kelon, Master Baiter, Graduate

Re: Federation Day Thorax FFA Proving Ground Theory Crafting

Post by Kelon Darklight »

Coming back looking into more fits, thought I drop some knowledge about drugs here. Normally for these events, I tend to pop standard tank drugs and synth range, the reason to do the synth here is its 6% bonus with no side effects vs standards 10% with a chance of some seriously nasty side effects, the worse being the velocity hit which always must be rolled off. Keeping it to a single standard means much less rolling of drugs is required. I also like to check for cheap event drugs that can help out as there is usually an event these days.

Another thing I like to talk about is drone selection, I usually like to have some drones that are a different damage type from my primary damage so if reactive armor hardeners are around I am not firing into a fully spooled resist profile tailored for my damage. I also tend to prefer the faster warriors/acolytes/etc to the slower drones as you want them to be able to GTFO if being shot or catch up to a target.

Another thing that is fairly useful is carrying some nanite to repair if there is a lull in fighting in a FFA, nanite tends to be much less useful in team fights or 1v1s as you usually can't catch a break to repair heat damage but you can sometimes peel away and get a bit of time to yourself to uncook your modules.

This arena also features the 100% heat bonus, which means for example a web doesn't web to 13km heated, it webs to 16km heated, which is important to keep in mind, and the heated tank/dps numbers I am presenting will be a bit higher in the arena as I didn't want to fiddle with the overrides.

One last thing is if you see an ongoing fight, and want to join in, I heavily advise to help the loosing side, as you want whoever wins to be as weak as possible once the fight is over. Otherwise you may fight someone who is fresh and ready to take you on with full tank charges/etc.

With that said, I started taking a look into armor versions of the fits and I wasn't super impressed for artillery.
Spoiler
[Thorax, meta 4 FFA 300% art v2]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Reactive Armor Hardener

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Medium F-RX Compact Capacitor Booster
F-12 Enduring Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Vespa I x5


Standard Sooth Sayer Booster
The powergrid needs were so excessive i had to downsize a gun to make it fit. It does have the benefit of being able to swap to a tracking script but in most situations if you need the tracking script you are in trouble. You could also drop the computer and go dual web which with the 100% heat bonus should let you web to 16km and screen off most ram fits.

Then I took a look at the best armor tank you can squeeze out and it is pretty impressive:
Spoiler
[Thorax, meta 4 FFA 300% ac v2.3]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Reactive Armor Hardener
Compact Multispectrum Energized Membrane
Compact Multispectrum Energized Membrane
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Medium F-RX Compact Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Republic Fleet Fusion M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I


Vespa I x5


Standard Exile Booster
Standard Sooth Sayer Booster
heated to 451 heated tank which is enough to face tank almost anything while the nanite lasts, drops to 150 once it runs out.

The outgoing dps though is pretty low, 175 guns plus drones, so I am not sure it would out trade a similar fit that has a different weapon profile loaded. Speaking of which, the armor version of the rail fit looks pretty nice
Spoiler
[Thorax, meta 4 FFA 300% R v2 copy]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Vortex Compact Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Vortex Compact Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Reactive Armor Hardener

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Medium F-RX Compact Capacitor Booster
F-12 Enduring Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Valkyrie I x5


Standard Exile Booster
Synth Sooth Sayer Booster
Fairly light on tank but it does 343 gun dps cold with 10+30km range with antimatter, could drop the tracking computer for additional control at the cost of range. May be enough range to semi kite with? It has enough cpu you could swap dps for tank depending on taste/results.

I did briefly look at lasers, but beam use cap like no ones business, and barely have any falloff to speak up, and pulses are in similar shape. Beams multi has 9km range with 18km falloff, which is extremely short, and while cap injecting has 53 seconds of cap life if you have to run mwd, rep, and guns at the same time. Radio goes from 59+13 to 29+ 18 which looks pretty bad. Pulses are much nicer on cap life but even shorter range, so I think its mostly not worth investigating.

May take a bit more time on Thursday to finalize fits but i think it may favor ramming fairly heavily due to the massive speed bonus in the middle, if you want to kite you will have to stay outside the cloud, and even then I am not sure if the cloud effect persists until module cycles or not so how viable kiting is depends alot on that.
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Kelon Darklight
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Title: Royal Champion of House Tash-Murkon, Chatty Kelon, Master Baiter, Graduate

Re: Federation Day Thorax FFA Proving Ground Theory Crafting

Post by Kelon Darklight »

After going 18-19-5 in this I had some thoughts. First one is I did bad math, as 300% speed is actually 4x speed instead of 3x speed. This made no prop fits more viable than I thought as even without a prop you were going 1.2 km/s in the bubble. Day 1 saw something I didn't really focus on here but was one of the reasons I was focusing hard on ACs, which was a large amount of fits that highly resisted kin/thermal damage. I saw so many of them, and was super glad I could shoot fusion into them.
Spoiler
Thorax, META 4 cheese tank]

Vortex Compact Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Reactive Armor Hardener
Experimental Enduring Kinetic Armor Hardener I
Medium I-a Enduring Armor Repairer
Experimental Enduring Thermal Armor Hardener I

Medium F-RX Compact Capacitor Booster
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier

Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I
Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I
Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I
Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I
Modal Ion Particle Accelerator I

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Kinetic Armor Reinforcer I
Medium Thermal Armor Reinforcer I


Warrior I x5


Standard Exile Booster


Navy Cap Booster 800 x2
Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M x600
This fit tanks 318 dps vs antimatter with the rep heated, vs the measly 111 dps tank if its vs a full fusion load. The ability to damage select helps alot!

While the AC dual LSE/lasb was doing well, I did want to try something that had a bit more sustain, and flew this fit:
Spoiler
[Thorax, Kelon Darklight's Thorax]
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer
Fourier Compact Tracking Enhancer
IFFA Compact Damage Control

10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler
Large Clarity Ward Enduring Shield Booster
Medium F-RX Compact Capacitor Booster,Navy Cap Booster 800

425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I,Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I,Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I,Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I,Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Medium EM Shield Reinforcer I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I
Medium Thermal Shield Reinforcer I
Eventually it was morphed into a full tank fit that alot of people used on days 2 and 3. I did try rail and artillery fits but applying to stuff in the middle was a nightmare and what dps did hit them was easily tanked, as these things were going faster than phantasms. Another amusing fact was I killed myself twice by heating an MWD, clipping the cloud that gives 4x speed and lets you accelerate 2x as fast, which boosted me up to 11km/s, and being unable to stop as I lost the inertia bonus that let me get up to speed that quickly, and yeeting myself out of the arena.

I did try a neut fit, which honestly I will maintain was viable but the low dps meant that all fights were slug matches and there was too much time for someone else to decide to crash your party. This lead to me giving up after 2 losses. By day 2 the meta had shifted entirely out of kin/thermal tanks into onmi tanked stuff which let me bring out the not so secret weapon, the xlasb thorax, which I had very good success with though it was at time super spicy to fight. I did end up dropping the resist rig for a extender rig to give more buffer to land reps in as it was super easy to over rep in it.

Someone else was actually streaming my second to last match, https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1515048142?t=1h33m28s . You can see me isolating someone and killing them, seeing no one was coming and at this point I repair my guns so I can heat them for the second fight, steal drones to replace the one I lost (something you can do in these is to deploy your drones and scoop extra drones into your now empty drone bays which lets you overload on your drone bay provided you can kill the previous owner of the drones). This is where I use a bit of previous knowledge to guide me, I decide i need to kill the armor thorax as I need to make sure I am not webbed so after I kill my first target I can try to escape to the speed bubble, play keep away from the no tackle LSB thorax, and buy enough time to reload the ASB. This almost doesn't go to plan! You will note exactly when I reload, in around 60% hull, which I quickly hard commit on him to kill him now that I can tank the incoming dps.
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