Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

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Mathew Colin

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Post 2017.04.03 21:36

Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

Dear Unistas,

It seems that I finally managed to go through a L4 Serpentis Extravagansa mission with my little Gnosis. I'm a bit proud of myself, so I'm making a post :-)
This is not my first L4, but this one was rather complicated (took me almost 1h30, not on the first try).

I would be happy to have any advises on my fitting to improve it, knowing that I'm just a Gallente Alpha clone, but almost fully skilled. I'm doing L4 missions since it seems to be really "ISK-efficient & no-risk" for an Alpha clone (tried a lot of other things).

My basic fighting strategy is this one:
- 1st, snipe (53-55kms) all frigates/destroyers with my 250mm Prototype Gauss Guns (Iron charge M) to avoid any problems with my drones. If some frigates were able to come to close, I put out my Hobgobelins and it's over.
- 2nd, I target all cruisers and battlecruisers and let my Hammerheads do everything (eventually sniping with Iron charge M).
- 3rd, I target battleships and orbit closer (15-17km), hitting both with my Hammerheads and 250mm Prototype Gauss Guns (Antimmatter Charge M).

My fit is Cap stable, meaning that you can just fire-at-will and not being stessed to warp in case of big troubles (Shield is not resisting). This one is "Serpentis-oriented" but you can switch to the other resistances if needed. Don't hesitate to try it as well, it is working!!

o7

[Gnosis, Serpentis-ActShield]

Damage Control II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Type-D Restrained Capacitor Power Relay

10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Medium Shield Booster II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Kinetic Deflection Field I
Limited Thermal Dissipation Field I
Large Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery

250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II

Hobgoblin I x5
Hammerhead I x5

Antimatter Charge M x3200
Iron Charge M x3000
---
Mathew Colin
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O'b Haru Sen

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Post 2017.04.04 13:12

Re: Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

First: congrats to your achievement. Serpentis Extravaganza is not an easy combat mission. Must have been quite a challenge in an alpha-Gnosis.

Your tactics seem sound. When orbiting have a look at your combat messages, if you get too many "grazing" hits you may want to reduce orbit speed or use a tracking enhancer.

Looking at your fit one thing comes to mind: the purger rigs don't match well with the Medium Shield Booster. Shield boosters are for active tanking, while purgers, shield extenders and shield power relays are the typical means of passive shield tanking as they all improve passive shield recharge either directly or indirectly.
So you could probably improve your fit by either dropping the purger rigs (ouch, expensive) or go fully passive by dropping the MSB and cap modules. The cap modules should not be as necessary for a passive fit as the MSB is the most cap hungry of your current modules.

To verify I slapped together something based on your fit:
  Code:
[Gnosis, passive rails alpha]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Limited Kinetic Deflection Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Thermal Dissipation Field I
Large Shield Extender II
10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Large Shield Extender II

250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II


Hammerhead I x5
Hobgoblin I x5


Unfortunately, this is with omega skills in https://o.smium.org (sorry, don't have proper tools atm):
dps goes from 532 to 534 (354 AM + 180 Hammerheads instead of 315+217)
dps tanked goes from 121 to 178 (and EHP buffer goes from 35k to 53k)
cap goes from 62% stable to 7:23 (10:06 with AB off)

So you get better tank at the cost of less cap stability.
Obviously you can trade back tank for cap, but I'm not sure about alpha CPU budget. The Shield Power Relays downgrade well.
The choice between drone damage amp and 3rd MFS depends on how much you actually use your drones and how much you are in AM range.

Please take this as an encouragement to experiment with fits, not as a recipe.

Fly boldly
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Mathew Colin

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Post 2017.04.04 20:07

Re: Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

Dear O'b Haru Sen,

Thanks you very much for your input!
I've looked at your remarks and fit in details, and it was very interesting :-)

Too bad I don't really know how to integrate pictures (I'm made screenshot of the simulation of my and your fit in EVE online...).

To make a résumé, here are my observations concerning your fit and mine (note that I've not any implant):
- it is indeed requiring more CPU that an alpha clone can give (I'm at -28.2). This is a problem :-)
- my cap is depleted in 4:37 (-130%), and even without my Gauss Guns activated, it's still not cap stable. This is really a problem :-)
- the signature radius has been clearly increased (317m to 392m). Probably not dramatic, but I would be a bit stressed to get closer to Battleships...
BUT
- your passive shield (55hp/s) is STRONGER that my passive+active shield (10+31.9=41.9hp/s). OMG, your passive shield tank is crazy!!!!
- your ehp is massive (49530ehp vs 33012ehp). :shock: This is nonsense, seriously, love it!
- your damage are slightly highler (438.2dps vs 435dps) - with antimatter Charge M + Hammerheads (although drones lose a significant power). To be honest, I prefer to have a drone damage amplifier II back and lose some theoric dps (I'm really using drones a lot).

I'm going to try to find both a passive fit based on your fit. I would actually be interested in an active one as well.
Keep you aware of my research in my next post!

Fly shield tanked!
---
Mathew Colin
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Mathew Colin

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Post 2017.04.04 21:29

Re: Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

PS: I just noticed that I should have post my topic in the "PvE Ship Loadouts" part, not the "Player vs Environment" since I'm speaking about Gnosis fitting for L4 missions... Is it possible for me to move the topic there?
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Mathew Colin
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Mathew Colin

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Post 2017.04.04 22:01

Re: Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

Ok, this is the best passive-shield tanked Gnosis I could do as a Gallente alpha clone (w/o implant), using O'b Haru Sen fit:

In order to make it CPU viable and cap stable, I've added two Capacitor Power Relay II, which means I've sacrifice something:
- I've removed 1 Shield Power Relay II (I'm still at 41hp/s, thus equivalent to the passive/active shield I've had)
- I've removed 1 Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
- I've also exchange 1 Magnetic Field Stabilizer for a Drone Damange Amplifier II (it's more a play-style consideration, it lowers theoric dps a little bit).

=> I must say that this is a MUCH BETTER fit from the previous I've had, and I wish to thank O'b Haru Sen for your advise.
=> If I find anything even better, I'll let you know. I'll first try this fit in real condition :-)

Fly well fitted,
Mat

[Gnosis, passive rails alpha]
Damage Control II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Shield Power Relay II

10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Kinetic Deflection Field I
Limited Thermal Dissipation Field I
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II

Hobgoblin I x5
Hammerhead I x5

Antimatter Charge M x400
---
Mathew Colin
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O'b Haru Sen

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Post 2017.04.05 12:01

Re: Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

Hey Mathew

I'm very glad I could be of help. :oops:
Sorry, can't check your fit and further the discussion unfortunately, since my cable modem died yesterday so no EVE for a couple of days :cry:

Regarding active shield tank the two main fitting approaches are:
* fit smallish shield booster (probably medium for a Gnosis) and perma-run it - easier to fly, but requires full cap stability
* fit oversized shield booster (probably large for an alpha-Gnosis) and pulse it (activate only when shields are around 30%) - can often get away with only 1-2 minutes of cap. The reason to do this is that larger shield boosters are more efficient wrt capacitor to shield HP conversion

In both cases the most useful secondary module is a Shield Boost Amplifier while the rigs are often used to improve capacitor (Capacitor Control Circuit or Semiconductor Memory Cell) just like in your original fit.

BTW most of this stuff is of course also covered in the Shield Tanking and Capacitor Management classes and teaching materials.
The slides at https://slides.eveuniversity.org/list.html may also be helpful.

o/ Haru
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Ernesto Guevarti

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Post 2017.04.05 12:21

Re: Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

I think the only thing to ask regarding this, as you seem to have most of it under control, is the simple question - are you finding it worth it isk / lp wise to do L4s like this, because I think you may be better off sticking with L3s as although they pay less you can do them a lot faster, and probably need to worry a lot less about checking each mission and declining some of the harder ones?

If you are doing it for reasons other than isk / lp / standing then the above is a moot point for you, but if you have feedback it may be useful for people to know before they go down this route.
Daniel Wittaker wrote:You could have a bright career ahead of you in Goonforums. That's some upvote-quality Helldump posting. Well done, sir.
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Mathew Colin

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Post 2017.04.05 19:30

Re: Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

Dear Haru,

I'll try both of these active shield tank approaches, and give you the feedback as soon as possible. If finally, with my limited Gallente Alpha clone, I manage to have a shield with a lower total hp but a significantly higher hp/s active regeneration, I will probably go in the "active shield tank" one. I've already bought a second Gnosis to have an active & a passive shield tanked to compare.

Thank you again for your very precious input and I hope to continue to optimize both fits in the close future!
Mat'

O'b Haru Sen wrote:Hey Mathew

I'm very glad I could be of help. :oops:
Sorry, can't check your fit and further the discussion unfortunately, since my cable modem died yesterday so no EVE for a couple of days :cry:

Regarding active shield tank the two main fitting approaches are:
* fit smallish shield booster (probably medium for a Gnosis) and perma-run it - easier to fly, but requires full cap stability
* fit oversized shield booster (probably large for an alpha-Gnosis) and pulse it (activate only when shields are around 30%) - can often get away with only 1-2 minutes of cap. The reason to do this is that larger shield boosters are more efficient wrt capacitor to shield HP conversion

In both cases the most useful secondary module is a Shield Boost Amplifier while the rigs are often used to improve capacitor (Capacitor Control Circuit or Semiconductor Memory Cell) just like in your original fit.

BTW most of this stuff is of course also covered in the Shield Tanking and Capacitor Management classes and teaching materials.
The slides at https://slides.eveuniversity.org/list.html may also be helpful.

o/ Haru
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Mathew Colin
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Mathew Colin

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Post 2017.04.05 20:06

Re: Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

Dear Ernesto,

I can't objectively answer this question, since I've just started L4 missions. But your question is the essential question: I've planned to take the time to run L3 & L4 with the final optimised Gnosis (something like "1 week doing L3" vs "1 week doing L4") and I will publish the results here with clear numbers.

What I can already say more subjectively (not precisely calculated, but clearly felt):
- L4 requires a well fitted Gnosis (>100M ISK worth). I was able to run L3 soooo easily with a much less expensive Gnosis... So, there is obviously an initial cost. And remember, I'm indeed an Gallente Alpha clone without implants, but I'm (almost) fully skilled (I played EVE before Alpha clones were released).
- It is indeed possible that, for the LP part, L4 might not be as efficient, but it's probably my fault for the moment. I'll come back with numbers.
BUT
- L4 brings much more of these Battleships worth 300k-600k ISK that are easily shootable. I'm currently making 10M of bounty per hour in L4, I was not making that much in L3 (or in ratting in low-sec actually).
- L4 brings generous loots. Just yesterday, I looted for 24M (estimated ISK by EVE, not the actual price I'm going to sell I guess) after the 1st gate stage only! (I stopped the mission at the 2nd gate, it was very late). I've tried looting in L3, but it was not worth it, and was just doing L3 super fast. Now, before finishing the mission by talking to my agent, I'm taking an Imicus with a special fit including a MWD + 3 cargo holds expenders and do a quick loot that is far more worth it than the bounties + the mission rewards together (that are nothing even at 1-2M).

Anyway, I would clearly suggest that each Alpha Clone try to take a Gnosis and do some L4. For a Gallente one with a clear Railguns/Drone kitting way of doing PvE, I can tell that it is possible. When you start to reach the limits, it really starts to be interesting, and for the moment I'm enjoying these High-Sec L4 very much.

I'll be back with a more scientific / objective answer asap.
o7
Mat'

Ernesto Guevarti wrote:I think the only thing to ask regarding this, as you seem to have most of it under control, is the simple question - are you finding it worth it isk / lp wise to do L4s like this, because I think you may be better off sticking with L3s as although they pay less you can do them a lot faster, and probably need to worry a lot less about checking each mission and declining some of the harder ones?

If you are doing it for reasons other than isk / lp / standing then the above is a moot point for you, but if you have feedback it may be useful for people to know before they go down this route.
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Mathew Colin
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Mathew Colin

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Post 2017.04.11 10:06

Re: Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

Dear Ernesto Guevarti,

The more I'm doing L4, the less I'm convinced it is the best solution to make ISK / LP...

I've been able to improve my fit based on the discussion on this forum and I've now an Active-Large-Shield cap-stable (120hp/s) and a decent dps (450dps/s) Gnosis, with a small radius. Works pretty well. But even with this I'm still not able to finish my current mission (an Amarr Battleship fleet of 12 ships with some epic range & damage, extremely annoying...).

I'm having a lot of fun, L4 are much more enjoyable than L3, I'm starting to upgrade my fit with faction module / ammunition / drones and I'll ultimately find a way to go through all L4 missions I think. But this was not your question: from my current experience, it is not wise to do this from an ISK/LP perspective.

o7

Ernesto Guevarti wrote:I think the only thing to ask regarding this, as you seem to have most of it under control, is the simple question - are you finding it worth it isk / lp wise to do L4s like this, because I think you may be better off sticking with L3s as although they pay less you can do them a lot faster, and probably need to worry a lot less about checking each mission and declining some of the harder ones?

If you are doing it for reasons other than isk / lp / standing then the above is a moot point for you, but if you have feedback it may be useful for people to know before they go down this route.
---
Mathew Colin
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Flux Is Life

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Post 2017.04.11 10:33

Re: Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

Then you might consider getting someone else to join you. Two pilots doing lvl 4 missions together is worth more than the sum of their parts.

You might allready know this but I'll write why anyway. NPC rep randomly, but it has an average value. Assume that value on some ships is 300 hp/s. If you only deal 400 dps then you practically deal only 100 real dps. If there are two pilots dealing damage (400 dps from both) on the same target then you hurt the target by 500 real dps. That is a speed up of 500%.

Worth noting is that this assume you hit same target allways. So for you it can help to ask around and see if someone wants to join you doing lvl 4s.
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Post 2017.04.11 13:15

Re: Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

Hi Flux,

Sure, being two would make everything easier, and undoubtedly more fun! Once I'm really happy with my fit, I'll not hesitate to bring some additional Unistas living around Dodixie with me (actually, by that time, I might be living in Boystin - Solitude).

And for those who want to try Lev4 in a Gnosis, here is my current up-to-date fit (still not perfect), but really working well most of the time!!

[Gnosis, ActiveShield]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II

10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Large Shield Booster II
'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration
'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I

Hobgoblin I x5
Hammerhead I x5

Antimatter Charge M x3000
Iron Charge M x3000
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Mathew Colin
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Sin Tsukaya

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Post 2017.04.11 14:02

Re: Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

Mathew Colin wrote: Now, before finishing the mission by talking to my agent, I'm taking an Imicus with a special fit including a MWD + 3 cargo holds expenders and do a quick loot that is far more worth it than the bounties + the mission rewards together (that are nothing even at 1-2M).


Random tip: Bookmark the first wreck you leave in each room. Then even when you de-spawn the deadspace pocket (i.e. hand the mission in), the bookmark will still take you to a grid containing the wrecks from that room. (It drops them out of deadspace into an analagous patch of normal space. This basically means you end up on a grid containing the wrecks and none of the scenery).

A traditional mission-running approach would involve dropping a MTU in each room as you first start killing things. Then you swing by later, and pick it up, full of loot. Optionally, you do so in a salvage-fitted destroyer (I don't think you can use salvage drones on an Alpha account, so I'd use a Catalyst. T1 salvage rigs and highs full of salvagers will *tear* through a pile of wrecks.)

Caveats:
* Has to be the same *character* collecting the MTUs as dropped them. Doesn't have to be the same ship.
* Unlike wrecks, MTUs can be found with combat probes. Some people like to scan down and shoot MTUs. The less populous the system, the less likely, as a rule.
* MTUs are 100m3 each. This is normally a real limitation, but actually the Gnosis is amazing in this regard. I think 5 rooms is the most any mission has - but would stand to be corrected by a regular mission runner.

EDIT: Important. When you drop an MTU, *Bookmark it*. Otherwise *you* will have to scan it down again. (Keep an expanded probe launcher in your mission base, just in case you forget.)
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Mathew Colin

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Post 2017.04.16 14:36

Re: Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

Dear Sin Tsukaya,

Thank you very much for your input, since I'm just recently a mission runner, I didn't knew about this MTU approach. There are clear risks though, and I thank you for pointing them out as well :-) I will probably try the MTU approach!!

Considering your second point, I'm currently using a salvage-fitted Imicus, but will definitely check in the EVE-simulation system if a catalyst is a better choice! I'll tell you.

And you're right, Alpha clone can't use salvage drones.

Fly safe,
Florent
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Mathew Colin
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Mathew Colin

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Post 2017.04.16 21:47

Re: Gallente Alpha Clone : L4 solo

And for the Gallente Alpha (but ISK rich) players, here is my ultimate Gnosis "Faction" Fit.
This thing is worth 650M ISK, and is NOT 6.5x better than the classical active-shield fit I've shown above. But still, it is an epic ship!!

Cap-stable -- almost 150hp/s -- more than 550dps

Note: if you're ready to go there, you're probably crazy, but who cares!! :-)

[Gnosis]
Power Diagnostic System II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II

Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
'Palisade' Cap Recharger I
'Palisade' Cap Recharger I

Federation Navy 250mm Railgun
Federation Navy 250mm Railgun
Federation Navy 250mm Railgun
Federation Navy 250mm Railgun
Federation Navy 250mm Railgun
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I

Federation Navy Hobgoblin x5
Federation Navy Hammerhead x5

Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M x5000
Federation Navy Iron Charge M x5000
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Mathew Colin
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