OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

[Iri Ryorki]

Channels:
- concierge channel: As a chat channel ingame? maybe. But not as a mumble channel. <other stuff>
But if it is an ingame channel you would need to know the name of that channel - which leads to the problem that you already have to aks questions to even get to know that channel - and thus could just get a brief update instead.
<more stuff>
To make a little different proposal: keep fleet chat clean and create a new chat for all the entertainment and general chatter. Questions wouldn't be missed that fast in fleet then - but everyone is automatically in that channel.

I think one of the issues that this channel was hoping to address is that for some periods a lot of people didn't know how to get into the fleet due to an AFK pilot being ninja-bossed and a new advert not being put up, hence needing the channel to exist outside the Fleet. Also, trying to move large numbers of chatty people into a different channel to chat is generally harder than providing a "go here for help" channel for the few who actually want help. I'm not sure the original commentor meant for this to be a Mumble channel, I'd assumed it would be a chat ingame; having the op concierge channel linked from Mess.ILN or Alliance could have gotten around the naming issue.

If cap chains for an operation of this size prove to be too difficult to organize, I might recommend choosing the cap-stable variants for next time.

I'm not sure it was too difficult, it's just that noone really did!

For people who don't know what ninja-bossing is:

Spoiler

If the current Fleet boss logs off without first passing boss to someone else a random person from the fleet is selected to become the new boss. This new boss is then asked if they want to put up and edit the fleet advert. If someone who is AFK is randomly selected to be boss they won't be around to put up a new advert and the fleet is therefore not advertised to anyone, requiring people in the fleet to invite people not in the fleet to join on an one-by-one basis.

If you are Fleet boss please remember to pass boss before logging out

[Richard Marte]

Lots of good comments above on the logi channel.

One quick question - how DO you link a channel? I tend to agree with the advice that we should have just had a channel for each grid, and linked each in MOTD, and come/go.

RE mumble - I really think that logi mumble has the potential to be REALLY useful. The chat window is good for seeing what the cap chain should be (if it is uncluttered). For communications it is about as useful as fleet chat during combat. Could you imagine the FC giving orders via fleet chat? Then why would we expect it to work for logi, when next to the FC it is probably the most hectic role in the fleet? I'm looking at watchlists, I'm looking at broadcasts, I'm looking at my 7-8 targets and modules, I'm listening to cap/dmg alarms, I'm trying to figure out if I should be broadcasting for reps myself (esp since I'm a likely primary). The last thing I want to do is to read a chat window and start typing responses.

If a logi is removed from the cap chain they should just type in chat -1, leave chat immediately, and whisper on mumble something like "cap chain" - that would be the key for everybody else to look at their targets and see if they are missing their partner, and if so to adjust. It isn't for having a conversation, it is for communicating critical information, just like having the tackle say "lost point" or something like that.

Part of me wonders if this should be added to the logi 101 syllabus, or at least logi 102. Getting mumble set up and all that isn't super-intuitive.

[Jeff Kione]

Depends what questions you need answers to I guess. Comms for important questions, fleet chat for everything else. I think more effective use of the MOTD would likely reduce the need for many of the basic questions, although you're limited when only the fleet boss can update it. Perhaps a channel (Operations.E-UNI or similar) where all the organizers can be given access to adjust the MOTD would be a better solution.

[Rothbard Leviathan]

...I have no (successful) first-hand experience with relationships.

Is there a forum medal / ribbon for this? I think it might apply to many of us... (Gold star for each subsequent failed relationship, of course.)

[Bang Chris]

I MAY have slept in and left my Atron on orbit around the C3 hole for 6 hours after the op is finished..

[Kazad Munthor]

I dont have much experience but there goes about the logi. I joined the first travel fleet from Stacmon late. looked at the mumble logi subchannel, and asked Richard in a private chat about the logi subchannel. For RL reasons I didnt make to the hole in that trip, but since the logi chat window always popped when i logged in, things where easy. I spent at most 4 hours in the op, and half of that just watching an HS connection without any action. The actual fight on Sunday was actually pretty smooth. We had a fair amount of warning and some people took over (Iri, Fe, Alexandra and Richard that I remember) and organized things. The POS shooting was a bit more troublesome, I sometimes mumble wasnt clear about it but broadcast worked. I may have warped late in a few oocasion and that may have disrupted the cap chain.

I am sure that a logi commander will help but one person cant be always on. Well, some people seemed to be. Anyway, what I would suggest is that before the op a pattern of the cap chain should be set, like 1 down 1 up and drop the down with someone else need cap. But I have no experience in the various situations that can arise, we may need to change that much, dont really know.

The fact that I (I think most of us) had to use the watchlist to sort the cap chain wasnt a big deal for me. I would love to have an overview tab with the people in my watchlist but that is one of the several question about tabs for logi that I have.

[Grygr Anzomi]

One quick question - how DO you link a channel?

[Jeff Kione]

One quick question - how DO you link a channel?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1m71jp/

[Richard Marte]

I am sure that a logi commander will help but one person cant be always on. Well, some people seemed to be. Anyway, what I would suggest is that before the op a pattern of the cap chain should be set, like 1 down 1 up and drop the down with someone else need cap. But I have no experience in the various situations that can arise, we may need to change that much, dont really know.

I wasn't thinking one commandar for the entire weekend. Just as with the FC role there should always be somebody in charge, and that can be handed off just like fleet boss.

They would be responsible for getting the FC/fleet-boss to update the main MOTD with logi channel links (that shouldn't change much), and updating the logi channel MOTDs as necessary. The logi channel MOTD should contain useful information like one-up/one-down. My memory is fuzzy, but I think that info was actually posted in the MOTD. However, since we don't seem to run these operations routinely (and of course we always have turnover), I'm not sure that everybody would have looked at the MOTD even if it was perfect.

For general fleet operations we have fleet 101 and a fairly consistent set of practices. It doesn't matter what fleet I'm on - everybody knows how to "x up", hold gate cloak, warp, jump, call "point" or "scram" and so on. Logi is more advanced so we don't try to introduce anybody to it (beyond broadcasting), but when we do I feel like we teach people the game mechanics and the general tactics, and even stuff like joining/leaving logi chat, but it seems like there are some gaps, like what to say on comms, MOTDs, and so on.

Don't get me wrong - I think everybody did their best. I just think there are some opportunities to improve.

But I also get the whole argument that more organization means more work during the 99% of time that nothing is going on. I'm just concerned that if that fleet had jumped through the gate with a bit less notice, we'd have had a lot more losses and might have been chasing them all over the system.

[helioswipe moondraft]

I MAY have slept in and left my Atron on orbit around the C3 hole for 6 hours after the op is finished..

Are you still in the hole? If so feel free to contact me, because we still have scouts in the whole this week. This goes for anybody who's still in there.

[Anakardian Onnlin]

So I finally managed to participate somwhat in a large operation.

Saturday I spent a few hours watching a hole with nothing happening.

Sunday was a bit more exciting, mostly because the internet kept crashing and I missed oll of the fight at the highsec hole

After that I shot up some structures as part of teh blob. Strange to see things disappear so fast.

As it was my first operation I was quite surprised at the lack of direction most of the time.
After arriving in the system Saturday I could not get an answer to where to go. When I at last got a place to go it went reasonably smooth.

The same scenario played out Sunday and especially when the structure bashing started it was very difficult to figure out who was giving what directions.
After someone started screaming for everyone to keep quiet there was a bit more order to the process.

Apart from that it was fun to see how many people showed up.

If I get the time to participate again I think I will bring a quiz for the hole watching like we sometimes have on AMC mining operations.

[Sayod Physulem]

What's wrong with using fleet chat to ask questions? There's no need to keep fleet chat "clean", directions come down through comms anyway. The simplest solution is likely to be the best here.

With keep the fleet chat clean I meant: post gifs and other funny pictures somewhere else. The same goes for chatter. So that questions stay longer in the fleet chat.
So the fleet chat should be clean FOR the questions not FROM the questions. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

I think one of the issues that this channel was hoping to address is that for some periods a lot of people didn't know how to get into the fleet due to an AFK pilot being ninja-bossed and a new advert not being put up, hence needing the channel to exist outside the Fleet. Also, trying to move large numbers of chatty people into a different channel to chat is generally harder than providing a "go here for help" channel for the few who actually want help. I'm not sure the original commentor meant for this to be a Mumble channel, I'd assumed it would be a chat ingame; having the op concierge channel linked from Mess.ILN or Alliance could have gotten around the naming issue.

You are probably right on that

RE mumble - I really think that logi mumble has the potential to be REALLY useful. The chat window is good for seeing what the cap chain should be (if it is uncluttered). For communications it is about as useful as fleet chat during combat. Could you imagine the FC giving orders via fleet chat? Then why would we expect it to work for logi, when next to the FC it is probably the most hectic role in the fleet?

I totally agree with you on that. There is just one little problem... if you use the whisper key, you get muted, if someone speaks to the entire fleet. So if you get the Damage Dealers to call their primary in a sub channel, that there is actually some space to talk for the logi - great.
But you know - DD is so important that they have to clutter the whole mumble with their primary
(And the FC often sits in the Command sub-channel which means that he can't whisper in the DD channel probably - or is there an option to do that?)

[Fe Long Amouh]

Day 1
Fitted my Guardian - nervous as first fleet action as the awesome logi boat, having flown cheaper lesser fits previously

Travel fleet seemed to take an age to form and travel due to WH shenanigans but was well organized and good fun - we even caught a WT on the way. Sadly I wasnt able to get in on action due to being logi with no cheeky drones. Finally jumped into the WH and soon fleet formed up on grid to bash - OH MY LORD

"Rep me" x3768273468172361965096, all at once

I was locking, repping and cycling like crazy as the broadcasts came in thick and fast. I may have chastised a logi bro whom i had to rep without a broadcast [sry if i sounded harsh in logi chat] - i think the broadcast chain was a bit overwhelming at times

OP success - logi managed well from what I saw, fleet got a few kills, caused self destruct and secured the WH

Im sure I had to land 4 reps on a few ships at times to stop them going down [or was that Day3? - I do recall one ship being in structure and dead dead dead - logi reps saved it]

Day 2
I was mostly offline, due to being away from the house all day

Day 3
Lots of boring POS and WH spinning -
but good chats and a growing anticipation of the upcoming DT window and then the main event itself.

A few spikes in WH activation got people jumpy but was mostly "FA", we even had the self destructo alt show up to blow more stuff up. DT came and went with out much happening and then it was back to semi afk boredom. I may have taken charge a few times and tried to herd cats in logi chat

FInally the main event finally approached and Id managed to grab some whoring Drones - a fleet showed up in Hi Sec so all logi warped to exit and managed to secure a few kill mail whoring entries when they finally jumped in on us. A nice bit of tension release before the POS destruction. As logi couldnt really do much at the tower it was finally decided that logi would help on the WHs and leave the fleet to its own devices as no real logi required.

QQ no logi at fleet- so 3 of us sent of to provide cap and maybe even Armour reps - so more drone action for me on POCOs

Then the confusion - how do we leave, when do we leave, is there a fleet etc? So I ended up leaving a bit early and having to drop my Guardian in the transporter and flew home in my Noob Ship. In my defence it was late and I had an early start so was keen to GTFO and log

Conclusion-
Great start and End, some confusion but not bad considering 130+ pilots at times.
Middle bit a necessary but dull event
Manic for Logi on Day 1 with all the reps, some people need to call for reps or check they are in fact broadcasting [had a few "Wheres my reps?" gripes]
I would do it again


Some images grabbed whilst bored - no real battle action shots Im afraid
http://imgur.com/a/biolQ?gallery#0

My cheeky KM whoring via drones
Rattlesnake [last day]
http://killfeed.eveuniversity.org/?a=ki ... _id=275160
Ishtar [last day]
http://killfeed.eveuniversity.org/?a=ki ... _id=275165
many many structures [see battle log]
http://killfeed.eveuniversity.org/?a=ki ... _id=275165

[Lothar von Richthofen]

I am glad I could contribute with my humble presence and contribution. Many thanks to all the organisers of this useful and fun operation!

[Admiral Akbar it'satrap]

combat comms were best comms