OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

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ViulfR DeWolf
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by ViulfR DeWolf »

Well done all! Sorry to have missed it but there's something special about getting in late, lagged, and stewed only to be surrounded by Mothers on Mother's Day. Oh well, space history was made and war decks will have to consider how much they're willing to (eventually) lose so this was an overwhelming op success!

Again I say Well Done !!!
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Richard Marte
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by Richard Marte »

White 0rchid wrote:
Ailise Thellere wrote: How about a concierge channel, where newbros, people just logging in and updates to where people need to be could be briefed and kept updated. This role would be a part of the leadership so the comms agenda would be managed accordingly? Just a thought.
Yes, I like this idea and it's worth considering I think. While people aren't too intrusive when they come into mains comms and ask where to go, it's a lot more efficient if there's a particular person/channel they can ask. As the MOTD was not always setup.
Yes, this would have been very useful. Also, a place for newer players to ask questions would have been helpful, like the aforementioned wormhole 101 stuff. One of the challenges in an op like this is that you'll have to explain everything 47 times, since due to opsec you don't want to brief everybody beforehand, and people are constantly coming and going during the main event.
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Iri Ryorki
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by Iri Ryorki »

Richard Marte wrote:The other complication was that we were not all on the same grid - you could be on station and in the logi channel, but not part of somebody else's chain who was also in-channel. I found I had to pay attention to the watchlist to get it right.
We came across this problem a few times, yeah. Someone (Fe, I think) split things alphabetically in the logi channel which made it easier, but ended up with slightly weighted groups due to more afk pilots on one side of the split than the other.

I do take your point about idling in the logi channel to allow a faster form-up if Trouble™ occurs, but if we'd made better use of Mumble I think that would've been preferable as it keeps the channel clear for chain organising, which is really what it's there for.
Ailise Thellere wrote:How about a concierge channel, where newbros, people just logging in and updates to where people need to be could be briefed and kept updated. This role would be a part of the leadership so the comms agenda would be managed accordingly? Just a thought.
This seems like a good idea to me also.
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Rand Nystal
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by Rand Nystal »

This was a well organized weekend, thanks to the WHC for hosting it.

I found it to be a tremendous learning experience. I came down with the travel fleet on Friday and decided to live in the target hole all weekend. As I finished Sentry V on Friday night I also got to learn about refitting and such in WH space. It was also a new experience logging in / out while not docked in a station.

Other stuff I learned about were the importance of hole control as well as the details of how to roll one.

All in all, good stuff!
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Fnorg Belvar
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by Fnorg Belvar »

It was a cool experience!

First time in a WH, first time POS bashing, first time in a large fleet operation, first time as logi ! :D

I must admit, bit confusing at times, but there was always someone who guided and helped out.

All in all, good week end!

/Fnorg
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Affra
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by Affra »

I do believe the initial attack of the system could have gone a lot smoother, faster and with more finesse. There was some epic back-seat-fc'ing going on, ppl getting excited that the OP was under way was understandable, and a fleet of this size is always hard to manage.

Props to everyone involved.
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Richard Marte
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by Richard Marte »

Iri Ryorki wrote:I do take your point about idling in the logi channel to allow a faster form-up if Trouble™ occurs, but if we'd made better use of Mumble I think that would've been preferable as it keeps the channel clear for chain organising, which is really what it's there for.
Oh, I wasn't suggesting using the logi chat for communications. I was just thinking that if there was a problem, do we really want the logi commander to be dealing with a million private chat invites begging for an invite back into the logi chat channel?

Is it possible to join the chat channel without being invited? That would solve this particular problem.
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Iri Ryorki
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by Iri Ryorki »

You should have been able to rejoin the channel once you knew the name, though this may not have been made clear when it was first set up :/
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Alaik
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by Alaik »

Richard Marte wrote:Is it possible to join the chat channel without being invited?
Once you've joined a channel, it ought to be able to connect to it again through the "Join channels" window. Sometimes channels seem to randomly vanish from there though, so I'm not sure how useful that is. Channels may well have settings that require invitation, though I would guess a uni logi channel isn't likely to have that restriction.

Another option would be to add the channel link to the fleet MOTD like TVP do for their logi channels. Could do the same with a "Help, What Do I Do" channel too.
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Jeff Kione
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by Jeff Kione »

I was watching the killboards with interest, I always grin when the Uni gets the drop on silly war targets. Shame about all the self-destructing though. I find that to be cowardly.

@ Logibros:

The logi channel is super important. To start with, it should be easily accessible (i.e.: clickable link in the MOTD, no password, etc). You should join the channel when arriving on grid and leave the channel when leaving grid. If you have more than one hole to cover, you should consider having two logi channels.

Here's the thing about cap chains: when you get neuted or jammed or get blapped off the field, everyone else needs to compensate for you. Having a bunch of AFK people in the channel (or having people not on grid in the channel) means that the person above/below you needs to search for the next partner. What should be a simple adjustment to the next person in the channel becomes a much more difficult task.

If cap chains for an operation of this size prove to be too difficult to organize, I might recommend choosing the cap-stable variants for next time.

@ Organizers:

Nicely done. :)

@ Everyone:

Sky Marshal =/= FC. While the Sky Marshal might very well decide to be the FC, they might also decide to delegate the role to others while they keep an eye on the bigger picture. There should however be a designated FC at all times, especially during transitions to new TZs.

I saw some comments about the command channel and my response is that it also needs to be a learning experience for the Sky Marshals. It's not often these sieges come along so it makes sense that the people organizing it might have questions for the more experienced members of the Uni. Sometimes you can't have the back and forth discussion you want to arrive at a solution quickly when you have 190+ people in fleet who also might want to throw their two cents in. Those who are in command can alleviate the boundary by relaying more information to the line members, while retaining the command channel to get timely feedback when necessary. But, the line members should know that often times you're kept in the dark during these types of engagements.

Hole control is not a glorious job but it is an important one. Ensuring that you have things to do (even playing games outside of EVE) really helps to pass the time.

All in all, great job. I'm proud of you guys!
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by Tonk Omnom »

Sweet baby jesus, this weekend was awesome. It was indeed a long time actually getting into J235117, a lot of waiting, a lot of staring at wormholes and listening to the voices. The voices, oh my god the awful voices! Make them stop.....! But nonetheless it was great because the people in mumble and in chats made that time wortwhile still, had loads of fun. And I nearly lost my pizza when Arctic Light jumped into system because I had the box resting on my keyboard and it had to go somewhere else really fast :lol:
Apart from showing me what a great corp I am in, it assured me (once again) that my future in EVE lies in wormholes. I'm looking at you WHC and Future Corps :wink:

Also managed to take some screenshots. Though I probably should have turned up my graphic settings :?

http://imgur.com/a/gVW9l#0
Last edited by Tonk Omnom on 2015.05.12 14:02, edited 2 times in total.
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Sayod Physulem
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by Sayod Physulem »

Channels:
- concierge channel: As a chat channel ingame? maybe. But not as a mumble channel. Because first: it is boring for the concierges to hang out in a dead channel when noone joins and nothing happens. Secondly you would miss when something happens, because you are not in the main mumble channel.
But if it is an ingame channel you would need to know the name of that channel - which leads to the problem that you already have to aks questions to even get to know that channel - and thus could just get a brief update instead.
So while it seems useful at first it might not be as practical as expected.
To make a little different proposal: keep fleet chat clean and create a new chat for all the entertainment and general chatter. Questions wouldn't be missed that fast in fleet then - but everyone is automatically in that channel.

- Logi-channel: I switched back and forth from a guardian to an AugNavy and basically stayed all the time in the chat. Sorry if I caused confusion there :oops:.
Logi sub channel in mumble: In basically every fleet I was, the main channel was just too busy to use any whisper keys efficiently. So the chat is the best source of information. And partly because of that I stayed in the chat channel. To be informed when you need additional logi, so that I can jump into one.

Command:
Concerning the logi commader: this is the same problem like with the FC for the main fleet. Nothing really happens and people come and go, so you don't really bother asigning one. I don't think that's a problem in general. The standing fleets of the Campuses work without an FC aswell, and people just step up when it is needed. And everyone can ask how much logi/tackle is at the holes. Then someone at each hole just answeres that question and the questioner just goes to the place with the least amount of logi/tackle (and asks them to adapt the chain). People can think for themselves and just help others that don't know how a cap chain works yet for example. So I think this organic structure was not really the problem.

I mean the only time a problem came up with the command sturcture was when an FC was actually asigned. Problems didn't came up when there was no FC - problems came up when there was an FC people spoke over. So the problem was not the lack of FC...

Of course this was a little bigger than the usual standing fleet - but I think it was well managed besides that little incident. Now concerning that ... I honestly thought that Titus was the FC until Gareth shouted everyone down and Arimos was the only one that spoke after that. I was also suprised that you wanted Conci to shut up when he asked something about a bubble that sounded important to me at least.
So I guess open comms instead of usage of the command channel would have helped - although I have to admitt that I am not too deep into that.
Last edited by Sayod Physulem on 2015.05.12 18:57, edited 3 times in total.
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Jeff Kione
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by Jeff Kione »

What's wrong with using fleet chat to ask questions? There's no need to keep fleet chat "clean", directions come down through comms anyway. The simplest solution is likely to be the best here.
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by Draxar Natinde »

Jeff Kione wrote:@ Logibros:

The logi channel is super important. To start with, it should be easily accessible (i.e.: clickable link in the MOTD, no password, etc). You should join the channel when arriving on grid and leave the channel when leaving grid. If you have more than one hole to cover, you should consider having two logi channels.

Here's the thing about cap chains: when you get neuted or jammed or get blapped off the field, everyone else needs to compensate for you. Having a bunch of AFK people in the channel (or having people not on grid in the channel) means that the person above/below you needs to search for the next partner. What should be a simple adjustment to the next person in the channel becomes a much more difficult task.

If cap chains for an operation of this size prove to be too difficult to organize, I might recommend choosing the cap-stable variants for next time.
I think we generally managed, but it was really difficult to tell when we were spread out all over the place. Or arriving back, it was really sometimes difficult where everyone was and what the channel should be.

But then again, this was essentially my first time in an operation like this flying logi. When we first got there, I remember thinking "well, are they going to need us for a structure bash?" followed by a "hey, I'm taking damage . . . "

Special thanks to my logi bros for keeping me alive when I got so busy I wasn't actually looking at my own armor. :D
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Re: OP Homulilly: Aftermath of a weekend

Post by White 0rchid »

Jeff Kione wrote:What's wrong with using fleet chat to ask questions? There's no need to keep fleet chat "clean", directions come down through comms anyway. The simplest solution is likely to be the best here.
With 180 people in fleet, chat was moving way too fast to keep track of at most times. It's at the busiest times that you need the answers quickly and it couldn't really happy. The quieter times when fleet chat was slow you could often speak up in comms and it was ok.
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