HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

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Speig Yotosala
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Re: HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

Post by Speig Yotosala »

He lost a billion isk Orthrus to a Nereus, Atron, and Talos. That is hard to fathom from a pvp perspective, almost worthy of an ALOD article on the Mittani. Great job guys!
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Dakk Ralnik
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Re: HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

Post by Dakk Ralnik »

Ok,

Now to play devil's advocate.

First, The main reason we were able to pull this off was we achieved that most coveted of all military advantages, i.e. almost complete surprise. Up to that point HSG Unistas would scurry to station and pretty much stay there. It never occurred to them that we might change that pattern and sortie in force. In fact I believe that It will be a while before this tactic will work again now that it's been used successfully.

Second he was so busy with the Nereus and the Atron I don't think he really noticed my Attack Battle-cruiser land on grid at optimum range. I don't think I fired more that twice maybe three times tops. If he had re-acted to me instead of the freighter and the frigate the outcome may have been very different. At the very least we would have needed the other Unistas who were warping in. Also, except for drone skills I possess precious little in the way of skills other than hybrid applied damage and engineering to support the fits needed for DPS and tank. This means, that with hybrid weapons, I throw out way more DPS than you might expect for a toon of my skill points.

Third while we were successful in the engagement we didn't utilize anything resembling proper fleet discipline. We were in different squads and I'm not even sure we all were receiving boosts nor did we utilize the fleet control points established in corp bookmarks. I even created them and didn't think to use them.

Fourth, everyone waiting to un-dock should have been at the closest station or fleet rally point not just me. All of us warping from that location would have sealed the engagement regardless of what he tried to counter with.

In closing while we achieved a great success there are several thing we can work on to improve our cohesion and fleet ops.

Lastly, on a personal note, I'm rather sorry to hear USF GUNNER was booted from his corp. You can be the very reincarnation of Lord Admiral Horatio Nelson and still find yourself in a no win situation which is exactly the position GUNNER found himself in. So shame on them. I seriously doubt that any of his former corp mates would have fared any better given the same ship, fit, and set of circumstances. GUNNER"s congratulation expressed in local after the action did great credit to himself and his corp and if his former corp can't see or understand that then they aren't worthy of having him as a member. I for one would gladly fly with or against him anytime.

Dakk Ralnik
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Neonen Enderas (Biomassed 2017.06.23)
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Re: HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

Post by Neonen Enderas (Biomassed 2017.06.23) »

Dakk Ralnik wrote: Lastly, on a personal note, I'm rather sorry to hear USF GUNNER was booted from his corp. You can be the very reincarnation of Lord Admiral Horatio Nelson and still find yourself in a no win situation which is exactly the position GUNNER found himself in. So shame on them. I seriously doubt that any of his former corp mates would have fared any better given the same ship, fit, and set of circumstances. GUNNER"s congratulation expressed in local after the action did great credit to himself and his corp and if his former corp can't see or understand that then they aren't worthy of having him as a member. I for one would gladly fly with or against him anytime.

Dakk Ralnik
Feel free to invite him. :)
I don't have mercy on him, simply because he knew what his corp is doing. And it's no suprise for me that his corp mates act like this.
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Did someone say "Stealthbomber"? Explosions? And ECM? I'm in! Let's blow shit up! ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
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Speig Yotosala
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Re: HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

Post by Speig Yotosala »

Don't feel sorry for him. His eve playstyle is to cause grief.

His fit is extremely niche. It goes 6.5k (my skills), but it must be very hard to orbit at that speed. The fit depends on never getting scrammed, and he obviously failed at that. I would like to know if the Nereus had a scram and web, and if so, did he burn into the Nereus's scram range? Or was he just unlucky when he landed on grid?
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Selni Tivianne
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Re: HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

Post by Selni Tivianne »

Dakk Ralnik wrote:Ok,

Now to play devil's advocate.

First, The main reason we were able to pull this off was we achieved that most coveted of all military advantages, i.e. almost complete surprise. Up to that point HSG Unistas would scurry to station and pretty much stay there. It never occurred to them that we might change that pattern and sortie in force. In fact I believe that It will be a while before this tactic will work again now that it's been used successfully.

Second he was so busy with the Nereus and the Atron I don't think he really noticed my Attack Battle-cruiser land on grid at optimum range. I don't think I fired more that twice maybe three times tops. If he had re-acted to me instead of the freighter and the frigate the outcome may have been very different. At the very least we would have needed the other Unistas who were warping in. Also, except for drone skills I possess precious little in the way of skills other than hybrid applied damage and engineering to support the fits needed for DPS and tank. This means, that with hybrid weapons, I throw out way more DPS than you might expect for a toon of my skill points.

Third while we were successful in the engagement we didn't utilize anything resembling proper fleet discipline. We were in different squads and I'm not even sure we all were receiving boosts nor did we utilize the fleet control points established in corp bookmarks. I even created them and didn't think to use them.

Fourth, everyone waiting to un-dock should have been at the closest station or fleet rally point not just me. All of us warping from that location would have sealed the engagement regardless of what he tried to counter with.

In closing while we achieved a great success there are several thing we can work on to improve our cohesion and fleet ops.

Lastly, on a personal note, I'm rather sorry to hear USF GUNNER was booted from his corp. You can be the very reincarnation of Lord Admiral Horatio Nelson and still find yourself in a no win situation which is exactly the position GUNNER found himself in. So shame on them. I seriously doubt that any of his former corp mates would have fared any better given the same ship, fit, and set of circumstances. GUNNER"s congratulation expressed in local after the action did great credit to himself and his corp and if his former corp can't see or understand that then they aren't worthy of having him as a member. I for one would gladly fly with or against him anytime.

Dakk Ralnik
I think you're giving him too much credit there - it may have been no win given the fit, but that was the problem. An orthrus is extremely hard to engage when when fit and flown well, but this one is a billion isk faction cruiser with t1 destroyer ehp and like 300 dps. The entire fit revolves around getting the 100MN MWD on, but due to the added mass you need to be travelling in a straight line for something like 13 seconds to not be worse off than using a 10MN one. And then there's turning.

DF appears to have internal issues between the dodixie crew and people that actually jump through a gate occasionally, so that probably didn't help him either.
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Re: HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

Post by Phantom Voidwalker »

Very nice kill and great job HSG! \o/

As others have already said, no need to feel sorry for him:

1. His playstyle of griefing alone is enough to make me think that he deserves no sympathy at all, no matter what happens to him, in EVE.

2. He brought this onto himself, by being careless, underestimating his "targets", and absolutely over-confident.
- Had he been in a standard pvp mindset, he would've expected reinforcement when the atron tackled him, and prepare accordingly.
- Had he been in a standard fit (with 2 BCUs), the tackle atron would've been vaporized right away.
- Had he not flown such a niche, anti-tanked fit (he had no tank fitted, plus 2 nanos and a speed rig which further reduces its hp), you would not have killed him in 2 or 3 volleys.

On a side note, apparently the loot fairy is in a *really* bad mood today ......... :( I mean, wow, just wow.
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Re: HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

Post by Comrade Blade »

The fit looks like an oversized AB fit where somebody thought "wouldn't oversized MWD be even better " without actually understanding why oversized AB works (ie. Scram doesn't slow you down)
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Re: HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

Post by Glasi Vookto »

That fit is good for station bumping. Outside of that it performs very bad due to poor maneuvrability. That, combined with the piloting error of getting within the industrial's scram range, signed his doom. Bad for him and good for us! Congrats on the kill guys.

PS: I doubt this was the reason why he was kicked from the corp. I can't think of any corp that would kick his members for losing a ship in PvP. It may be blingy, but again, that's what they all fly in his corp, so I see no issue with that.
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Re: HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

Post by Azure Rogue »

Glasi Vookto wrote:PS: I doubt this was the reason why he was kicked from the corp. I can't think of any corp that would kick his members for losing a ship in PvP. It may be blingy, but again, that's what they all fly in his corp, so I see no issue with that.
It might not have been the only reason, but that is actually exactly a reason Absolute Defiance corps kick people, and they've done it before as well. They kick people who lose blingy ships in dumb situations (I think a 1bil Orthrus loss to being tackled by an industrial counts).
Last edited by Azure Rogue on 2015.04.14 13:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

Post by Dakk Ralnik »

ok I'll bend to the experience here as far as Gunner's griefing and the corp response to his loss.

But I'll stand by what I've said as far as my analysis of how we in HSG can do better for future fleet actions.

Dakk
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Re: HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

Post by LeFleur »

Dakk, you are right in one thing: we lack the experience to evaluate some threats, so sometimes we don't take fights we can win. When some of the people that can FC are online, things are much more ordered.
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Re: HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

Post by Titus Tallang »

Dakk Ralnik wrote:ok I'll bend to the experience here as far as Gunner's griefing and the corp response to his loss.

But I'll stand by what I've said as far as my analysis of how we in HSG can do better for future fleet actions.

Dakk
Just because other people are salty about wardeccers doesn't mean you have to be. That's not a matter of experience, that's a matter of opinion.

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Re: HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

Post by Karimson Safehold »

Good job strontium.

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Re: HSG action in Jufvitte against Deadly Fingertips

Post by Zeeba Eatah »

You were assigned the fat, middle aged, balding ginger fairy

He says:

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