[AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

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Nienke Solette
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[AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Nienke Solette »

Oh boy, what a weekend. This is the second out of three AARs. Thanks to all who joined and helped, I had a blast!

Please note that I have recorded this fleet and videos are online and public on YouTube (as indicated at undock-time). If you still object on your voice being on the recordings, please let me know via Forum-PM, Slack-PM or direct EVE-Mail. Oh, and apparently my recordings did not include command whispers, so I learned something from it! ^^

The planned route was a nice circle through Gallente/Caldari Faction Warfare territory. See also this DOTLAN Map.

Roam members (13)
Spoiler
Alecks Kautsuo - Kestrel
Analee Tsasa - Kestrel
Asuka Rossi - Kestrel
Bruice Almighty - Kestrel
Ch4rl13 D4M3 B3rry - Kestrel, Ibis, 2IC
Cody Canada - Kestrel
De W Javqe - Kestrel, Velator, 3IC
Ersin Oghuz - Maulus
Esjay Kuovo - Kestrel
Ether Kirk - Kestrel
Giacomo Belenos - Kestrel
Khalista Hemah - Kestrel
Nienke Solette - Kestrel, Velator

Please let me know if I forgot anything or anyone and I'll edit this list!
Kills and Losses

The interesting part of the fleet started in Abune at the Oinasiken gate. Traffic was relatively high (Federation Navy Comet, Succubus, Garmur) and I hoped to catch something. Fleet ended up jumping the gate a couple of times and not catching anything, I should have put a vanguard at the other side just like the BLAP Merlin fleet on the 4th. Commands were a bit messy and I was busy with helping a newbro find the fleet, so I decided to let the fleet orbit the Abune gate in Oinasiken while our scout was creating a safe for us to warp to. Next time, I should try getting content on gates in LowSec with a Kestrel fleet, I did not think of the gate-guns and paper tank...

The messy part didn't end here, the scout pushed a wrong button which is why we ended at a Small plex (Best Laid Plans). At this point I was 1) considering to use a filament to yeet the fleet again for funsies and 2) trying to get comms clear and 3) clear up the messy part. I decided to slide the gate and see what was in it, partly because I thought it would put us in a safer spot. When landing there were many NPCs so I called to not shoot anything because of faction warfare. Furthermore, I called to anchor up and turn the prob-mod on, just to see which pilots were in a "Sunday afternoon let's chill mood" or if there were any newbros who needed a bit of help. Just to see if I could get it cleaner. It also became clear here that not everyone was following the doctrine: there was an AB-fit kestrel amongst the fleet which was unfortunate.

Then, a Stiletto and a Kikimora landed on the plex and started spiralling in, which is why I decided to warp the fleet to a fresh safe from our scout. Apparently, they had scanners because they followed rather quickly. I warped the fleet to a Small plex to keep the speed high.

Video 1
(14:00:26) Oinasiken
Kestrel -10.1m
Kestrel -5.48m

Then, a Stiletto and a Kikimora landed on the plex (we were at +100k distance) and started spiralling in, which is why I decided to warp the fleet to a fresh safe from our scout. It looked like they had scanners because they followed rather quickly and landed at 200+km. I warped the fleet to a Small plex to keep the speed high. Apparently not high enough, the Stiletto was able to land directly on top of us at the acceleration gate. I called it primary while a Kikimora landed at 50km and a Retribution at 10km. The Stiletto was able to gain distance fast because we lacked scram. Our scout was also in a doctrine Kestrel, which was the reason for that. Next time I must check if the scout has a proper ship.

When the Stiletto and Kikimora were out of range I decided to switch to the Retribution. Like earlier this weekend I did not call it secondary which would have increased a quicker switch. I also wanted to try to give countdowns for engaging to get as much DPS in a second as possible, but the earlier messiness was probably causing me not to do that. Our 2IC went down and I was afraid of losing more ships (our 3IC and EWAR had 1/4 shield left) at an early stage of our fleet, so I decided to warp the fleet out. I also saw the Retribution was at 35km from my own position, again ignoring the fleet positioning. In hindsight, the Retribution was already in half armour and I think we could have taken it down. Broadcasting targets: I didn't broadcast the Stiletto but did properly broadcast the Retribution.

After this fight, I wanted to go out of OIN, regroup somewhere and arrange a fight with a former Unista whom we valiantly de-shipped on the Hyperkitten fleet last Friday. So we went to Pynekastoh to dock up for a bit, managed the reshipping and getting an MWD for our off-doctrine Kestrel. I didn't want to keep the whole fleet waiting too long, so after 5 minutes we undocked again.

Video 2
(14:17:27) Pynekastoh
Garmur +68.09m

After undocking, I wanted to wait a bit in a Novice plex for people still reshipping and returning. We warped to the plex and landed almost at the same time as a yellow flashy Garmur. Called it primary and we took it down. In the video, I can see that my primary concern was keeping myself safe, which is why I aligned back to the station. Next time, I should work with a set default orbit which makes sense and use it. Furthermore, for Alpha-Bird Kestrels in LowSec, I would consider an AB fit instead of an MWJ fit next time. For more range, I can consider swapping the point out for a different utility module (damps/paints/something else?).

Video 3
(14:22:41) Pynekastoh
Federation Navy Comet +21.85m

After the kill, we took the acceleration gate to wait for our arranged fight. While waiting there, a Federation Navy Comet and a Tristan landed at 30km from us. Again forgot to call a secondary point on the Tristan, so that one warped off. We got the FNC, though ^^.

We stayed in the Novice plex to prepare for the arranged fight. When everyone was ready I warped us to the Large plex at 0 where an Imperial Navy Slicer was spotted on D. We landed at 100km from the INC.

Video 4
(14:31:30) Pynekastoh, Rakapas
Kestrel -5.14m
Kestrel -10.05m
Kestrel -9.29m
Kestrel -7.55m
Kestrel -10.29m
Kestrel -5.41m
Kestrel -11.33m
Maulus -5.22m
Kestrel -5.47m
Kestrel -7.67m
Kestrel -5.47m
Kestrel -11.61m
Velator -0.01m
Velator -0.01m
Ibis -0.01m
Capsule -0.01m
Capsule -0.01m
Capsule -0.01m

We stayed in the Novice plex to prepare for the arranged fight. When everyone was ready I warped us to the Large plex at 0 where an Imperial Navy Slicer was spotted on D. We landed at 100km from the INC. I did not call to anchor up but let the fleet orbiting the beacon, which in hindsight is a mistake. Two Wolves and another INC landed (one Wolf at 30km and the others at around 125km). I called the closest Wolf primary (incl. broadcast) and we started our pew-pewing. The Wolf got at distance fast (around 60km) and I called to go back to the beacon. In the video, you can see we were quite spread out (around 100km spread) which was not a good thing, they could take us one at a time because of this. The fleet got point on the other Wolf because it approached up until 20km from me. However, without scrams, there wasn't much we could do to slow them down with our Kestrels. We got the second Wolf into armour but again it got enough distance to get out of range.

Our EWAR was distracting one of the INCs and I called for him to bounce and come back in if possible. At this point, we lost around three to four ships and we kept bleeding. 2IC and 3IC had to bounce for repairs when our EWAR returned. One of the Wolves and INCs came in a bit closer to around 35km and I started orbiting and engaging the Wolf with my prop-mod activated. This pulled me away from the fleet and the INC got point on me after which it took me down. At this point, 3IC was just back on the grid to take over with only six of our ships left on the grid. I think the fight went on like this and we did not manage to take anything down. A bit sad but a very good learning experience for all of us, I think!

After the fight, Titans were reported in our neighbouring system. We went tourist mode and saw an Avatar at a Fortizar near the State Protectorate Logistic station. We had some more fun and I took the pod express home near a Cyno at the NPC station near Rakapas V.

Stats
ISK Destroyed: 89,942,905
ISK Lost: 110,107,905.31
ISK Delta: -20,165,000.31
Efficiency: 44.960%

Overall evaluation
  • (Positive stuff)
  • I had my first arranged fight with Tuskers
  • Slowly getting broadcasting targets drilled into muscle memory
  • We saw an Avatar in LowSec
  • Good learning opportunity
  • A 100M fleet whelp is, in my opinion, reasonable. Especially when everyone learned from it ^^

    (Learnings)
  • Messy attempt to catch targets at the OIN-ABU gate with gate guns with paper-tank Kestrels. This is not the way to get proper content for an Alpha-Bird Kestrel fleet.
  • Check our Scout's ship before leaving the form-up system
  • Anchoring is really, really important with skirmish fleets
  • Own distance from the target is not the same as the fleet's distance from the target
  • AB-fit Kestrel with something else than point may be better in LowSec
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Nienke Solette
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Re: [AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Nienke Solette »

AAR is now finished and recordings have been added. Any feedback is welcome! Again, thanks for the fleets last weekend everyone, I had a blast.

If you have any objection about your voice being on the public videos, please let me know!
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Re: [AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Taylor Moon Mahyisti »

sound like you guys have a nice time!!! fimalent fleet are very fun, you guys should try some time. comet pilot was silly, you can fit for <2s align which is nice because you can warp anywhere you want and if it looks bad just warp out :D :)
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Re: [AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Budda Sereda »

Learning experience and everything else is fine, but losing 10+ frigates to 2 wolves and 2 slicers (that's what I see on few kills)... should be considered as BAD.

Not that you should stop FCing, Nienke, absolutely not, keep trying. But you need to think VERY hard how you could get at least some kills, write your ideas, ask for opinion.

You mention 1 point: orbiting was a mistake. Correct you had to keep fleet together. What else?

I'd say:
1. Try to ALPHA kill ships, lock 1, count 3-2-1- shoot.
2. Focus on slicers, they have much smaller tank.
3. Try to slingshot Wolves, and OH mwd so you can land to shots from each Kestrel before Wolves will pull the range.
4. Maybe even shoot them while they close range: if they are out of range but approach you they might be still hit.

And dont feed the whole fleet. If you lost a few ships and can't catch them just disengage
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Re: [AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Asuka Rossi »

Mmm i also need to know what happened to my kestrel too... https://zkillboard.com/kill/80855652/ . Some explanations?
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Re: [AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Taylor Moon Mahyisti »

Asuka Rossi wrote:Mmm i also need to know what happened to my kestrel too... https://zkillboard.com/kill/80855652/ . Some explanations?
by my analysis, it seems that you got blown up :D
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Re: [AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Asuka Rossi »

Taylor Moon Mahyisti wrote:
Asuka Rossi wrote:Mmm i also need to know what happened to my kestrel too... https://zkillboard.com/kill/80855652/ . Some explanations?
by my analysis, it seems that you got blown up :D
Seems so, just didnt noticed another unista on the kill mail until now LOL
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Re: [AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Nienke Solette »

Spaaaiiiii xD
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Re: [AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Nienke Solette »

Budda and Asuka thanks for giving feedback! I'll react on that with some explanations/opinions in this post:
Budda Sereda wrote:Learning experience and everything else is fine, but losing 10+ frigates to 2 wolves and 2 slicers (that's what I see on few kills)... should be considered as BAD.
Yes, it is bad. But if we learned and if we had fun, I'd consider this as goal accomplished, especially if it's in line with the Uni's goals.
Budda Sereda wrote:Not that you should stop FCing, Nienke, absolutely not, keep trying. But you need to think VERY hard how you could get at least some kills, write your ideas, ask for opinion.

You mention 1 point: orbiting was a mistake. Correct you had to keep fleet together. What else?

I'd say:
1. Try to ALPHA kill ships, lock 1, count 3-2-1- shoot.
2. Focus on slicers, they have much smaller tank.
3. Try to slingshot Wolves, and OH mwd so you can land to shots from each Kestrel before Wolves will pull the range.
4. Maybe even shoot them while they close range: if they are out of range but approach you they might be still hit.

And dont feed the whole fleet. If you lost a few ships and can't catch them just disengage
1. I actually talk about this in my AAR. I wanted to try alpha-ing ships, which I would do as FC for the first time. Like I said, because of the messiness and probably distractions at the RL place I was at at that time, I did not while I should have. Again, if I / others learned from that and we had fun, not that big of a deal.
2. I actually did not know that, thanks for the tip!
3. Because I did not anchor, I really couldn't use this point. Yes, it's something I need to think of next time I FC a skirmish fleet and actually let the fleet anchor, thanks for the second tip!
4. Since the Wolf landed at 30km it really wasn't at close range, again your point is not applicable to our situation at that time. We tried closing the gap but the Wolf simply was faster. If they actually had landed at closer range, I think I'd call them primary and try hitting them. Your point about them approaching you and still shooting because they might still be hit is a valid one though, will keep that in mind for the next skirmish fleet.

Last point about feeding the whole fleet; I got feedback on one of the earlier fleets that weekend to not call scatter too soon. I guess this was the other end of the spectrum. I guess I just need more experience to "feel" when I (or any other FC in the same or a different fleet) need to call scatter or bounce myself.
Asuka Rossi wrote:Mmm i also need to know what happened to my kestrel too... https://zkillboard.com/kill/80855652/ . Some explanations?
I think Bruice tried to shoot you out of range or just before you died? He was positioned somewhere at the main blob though, which actually could have been in range, it's a bit hard to see in the video... It gives an interesting killmail though ^^
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Re: [AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Budda Sereda »

Nienke Solette wrote:
1. Try to ALPHA kill ships, lock 1, count 3-2-1- shoot.
1. I actually talk about this in my AAR. I wanted to try alpha-ing ships, which I would do as FC for the first time. Like I said, because of the messiness and probably distractions at the RL place I was at at that time, I did not while I should have. Again, if I / others learned from that and we had fun, not that big of a deal.
I've checked AAR again, and don't see that. Sorry if I missed.
Nienke Solette wrote:
3. Try to slingshot Wolves, and OH mwd so you can land to shots from each Kestrel before Wolves will pull the range.
3. Because I did not anchor, I really couldn't use this point. Yes, it's something I need to think of next time I FC a skirmish fleet and actually let the fleet anchor, thanks for the second tip!
Fair. And also, aplha killing would not work if you were not anchored due to a) different distances and missiles travel time, b) even if that were guns, not missiles, you'd have different optimal ranges and that would be much more efficient.
Nienke Solette wrote:
4. Maybe even shoot them while they close range: if they are out of range but approach you they might be still hit.
4. Since the Wolf landed at 30km it really wasn't at close range, again your point is not applicable to our situation at that time. We tried closing the gap but the Wolf simply was faster. If they actually had landed at closer range, I think I'd call them primary and try hitting them. Your point about them approaching you and still shooting because they might still be hit is a valid one though, will keep that in mind for the next skirmish fleet.
Let me describe what type of "sh.t" usually happens. Fleet of relatively inexperienced pilots tries to engage a kity "sh.t". Sometimes, FC knows that's a bad idea and he calls fleet to stay together. But there is always a 'snowflake' who feels smarted than others and goes for tackle... he is pulled from the fleet to the 50-70km and dies. Killers come back to the fleet back to 30-50km ... bait,... and pull another snowflake. He think, ok, now I will catch them, it is so close... and the same, he dies.
Over the course of 10-15 minutes fill is depleted. Everyone has fun from engagement, but fleet will end.

Here is an alternative.

Fleet warps into a site and sits still. Kestrels even with alpha skills have 44km range, Beam Slicers - 63km, Arty Wolves - 30km optimal + 20km falloff.
Those slicers just CANNOT stay in range if 10 Kestrels sit together. Wolfs will stay 15-20 seconds and have to run.
So they will stay at 50km range, and can shoot you. Fleet would anchor up, and hunt them. They will keep out of range and each 30-40 seconds kill one of Kestrels. Unless Kestrel pilot is smart and bounce. And that's what he should do.
FC should realize, he is 1000 m/s slower, he can't catch anything, he should either:
a) align fleet somewhere and fleet warp and moon walk. Yeah, you did not get fight, but you can't fight "kity b.s." that is staying out of range.
b) start moving to the opposite direction and MWD away so Wolves+Slicers have to come to you... Maybe even OH MWD 1-cycle. FIrst thing, this will "increase your missile range" (question to everyone "WHY?"). After 1-2 cycles, when Wolf and Slicer are back to 50km, call fleet to approach them and OH MWD again and OH your launchers. This way those kiters might come to 30-40km and you can kill them.

Yes, this is hard to pull and it looks simple on paper and might not work. But this is MUCH better than staying disorganized and feed.
Nienke Solette wrote:Last point about feeding the whole fleet; I got feedback on one of the earlier fleets that weekend to not call scatter too soon. I guess this was the other end of the spectrum. I guess I just need more experience to "feel" when I (or any other FC in the same or a different fleet) need to call scatter or bounce myself.
Correct, though, calling scatter probably is not the best option. Boradcast any celestial, call people to align and fleet-warp to it at range in 5 seconds (10 seconds if your prop mode was ON).

Last point. I apologize if my feedback was a bit harsh. The main reason of this is that often I don't see from emerging FCs enough self-criticism in the AAR and I do believe this is a very essential part of learning.

You are ABSOLUTELY correct: you can whelp and have LOTS of fun. Yet, I'd like to see FC admits: even though we all had fun, I should 'bla-bla-bla'...

Again, to Nienke and everyone who will try to FC:

Keep FCing, damn it!

Trust me, when I was learning, I was doing similar or worst mistakes and getting MUCH harsh feedback.
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Re: [AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Anidien Dallacort »

FIrst thing, this will "increase your missile range" (question to everyone "WHY?").
Missiles don’t truly have a range - they have a velocity and a maximum flight time.

Made up numbers - a missive has a maximum velocity of 5000 meters per second (m/s) and a maximum flight time of 10 seconds (s). The missile will fly toward the target, at 5000 m/s until it reaches its target at which point it explodes, or until it has flown for 10 seconds without reaching its target. After these 10 seconds, the missile will have flown 5000 m/s * 10 s = 50,000 meters. This would be the range shown in the launcher tooltip.

The principle here is to understand that the missile becomes an independent body from the launching ship the moment it is launched. The flight time begins at the point in space at which the missile is launched, and the missile will travel directly to the target until it hits or its maximum flight time expires.

The effective range increase - which exists because we think about the distance between our ship and our target at the moment we fire - occurs when the target ship is moving toward the missile. Essentially, once launched, the missile has a set line of length equal to maximum velocity times maximum flight time - so if the target ship enters that line within the flight time of the missile, it will be hit even if it started outside that line when the missile was fired.

In more variable terms, imagine the distance between the ships when the missile is fired, is equal to d. The missile has a maximum velocity of v1, and the target ship is traveling toward the missile at velocity v2. The missile and the ship will meet each other at some point in between, where the distance from the targets starting point to the intercept point is d1, and the distance from the missile starting point to the intercept point is d2.

Note that d = d1 + d2, since d is the distance between the missile and the target starting point (the missiles starting point being the same point as the ship that fired it the moment it fires).

The time froM starting positions to the intercept point is t, and is the same for both the target and the missile (since they will by definition hit the intercept point at the same time).

Distance = velocity * time, so:

d1 = v1 * t
d2 = v2 * t

And since d = d1 + d2, then d = v1 * t + v2* t, therefore d = t * (v1 + v2)

Back to our hypothetical missile of 5000 m/s velocity and 10 s flight time. Imagine the enemy ship is flying toward the missile at 500 m/s. Per the equation above, d- the range between the two ships the moment is fired, is (calculating maximum range by using maximum flight time for t):

d = 10 s * (5000 m/s + 500 m/s) = 55,000 meters

The enemy ship was “out of range” by 5000 meters when the missile was fired, but is still hit - effectively, because it flew into the missile.



Therefore,

If you are missile equipped, and burn away from an enemy that will chase you in a straight line, you increase your range due to them flying directly opposed to the missiles you are firing at them as they chase.

The faster they are, the more “bonus” range you get. [note though, that target velocity is a detriment to the damage applied, so a faster target pulls more range for your missile when they are chasing you, but gets less damage. At least the missile hits).
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Re: [AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Anidien Dallacort »

P.s: on this point from the end of my last post:

“ If you are missile equipped, and burn away from an enemy that will chase you in a straight line”

The straight line concept is a bit of a simplification - though becomes somewhat true in the case of an enemy that uses an “approach” command on a ship running away from it.


Space is three dimensional, so if a target is moving toward the launching ship but not directly toward it, it is the component of the velocity of the target toward the missile that will matter - essentially, only a portion of the velocity of a target moving indirectly toward you launching ship, will count to increase range.

This is a little more difficult to gauge in EVE since three dimensional Cartesian components of velocity is not measured. However, the polar coordinate data that IS provided, is still helpful.

If an enemy ship has a negative radial velocity to your missile launching ship, your missile will gain “bonus range”.

The closer the negative radial velocity is to the actual velocity of the target ship minus your velocity moving away, the more of that ships velocity is counted toward that bonus range. This is also stated in game as low transversal, since radial and transversal velocities effectively oppose one another.

Even this is assuming the target ship is faster than you - even if radial velocity is positive, you might still be getting bonus range, if the ship is moving toward the missile - but is doing so more slowly than you are moving your ship away from the target. But if you can fly faster than the target, why aren’t you just commanding field position, instead of trying to utilize this concept? (There might be a reason, not saying there never would be!)

Things get even crazier when you consider “instantaneous” velocity and approach angles - so a ship spiraling in on your missile launching ship, and maybe varying it’s velocity as it does, makes exact calculations of the bonus range, on the fly, difficult.

Understand the concept. Burn away and fire the missile. If you start seeing damage applied - keep running and shooting!
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Re: [AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Gergoran Moussou »

The issue with burning directly away is that it makes it easier to track. You're going to want to pull distance while NEVER burning straight toward or away from the enemy. Smaller ships like Kestrels survive by maintaining angular velocity. Reducing angular velocity to zero in order to maximize linear velocity relative to a specific point of origin is going to get small ships killed because it makes it easier for larger, low-tracking weapons to hit them, especially as the Kestrels get further away (since the ship's own linear velocity relative to its point of origin has a reduced effect on angular velocity relative to the hypothetical Megathron).

Keep in mind that this does not apply to missile ships. Maximizing linear velocity in any direction is the way to reduce their application.

To give an example of what happens to a small ship when it does not have enough angular velocity, look at this. I was flying at somewhere around π/3 radians relative to this Machariel while moving in to tackle. At around 50km off, he took me out in a single volley. I should have begun at a wider angle and narrowed it as I got closer. Consider how difficult it is for large artillery guns to track frigates in general, that my assault frigate is both more durable than a Kestrel (admittedly, this particular fit is more of a glass cannon fit) and has a hull bonus which reduces the microwarpdrive signature radius (thereby reducing the Machariel's ability to track). T1 ships such as Kestrels would have no chance of surviving such circumstances. https://zkillboard.com/kill/80414498/
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Re: [AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Willuw Everquest »

Budda Sereda wrote:Learning experience and everything else is fine, but losing 10+ frigates to 2 wolves and 2 slicers (that's what I see on few kills)... should be considered as BAD.

Not that you should stop FCing, Nienke, absolutely not, keep trying. But you need to think VERY hard how you could get at least some kills, write your ideas, ask for opinion.

You mention 1 point: orbiting was a mistake. Correct you had to keep fleet together. What else?

I'd say:
1. Try to ALPHA kill ships, lock 1, count 3-2-1- shoot.
2. Focus on slicers, they have much smaller tank.
3. Try to slingshot Wolves, and OH mwd so you can land to shots from each Kestrel before Wolves will pull the range.
4. Maybe even shoot them while they close range: if they are out of range but approach you they might be still hit.

And dont feed the whole fleet. If you lost a few ships and can't catch them just disengage
That's great feedback - of course you could have said all that without being a prick up front - Just calling it as I see it. O7

What Unista knows how to slingshot? Is that an expected skill of E-Uni newbro fleet members? If you start your feedback with "You Suck", I am not sure who would want to FC anything … ever - especially knowing full well that just about any UNISTA has a hard enough time anchoring on the FC or other basic skills - which is due to the complexity of this GAME. If you start off w/"You Suck" the rest of your feedback will go out the window because you have already lost the reader. You do have to consider the skill level of the fleet members here...

Sounds to me like what the intended outcome of ANY Uni fleet is - is being accomplished - learning is taking place, without failing...that includes whelping entire fleets - how is one supposed to learn?
"I see a massive blob of Blinky-tiny spheres floating around in space on my screen...with 27 windows open everywhere ...and I am trying to feverishly activate the right modules on the right targets that are being called with shaky hands… if I can do that that's 90 % success to me..." Willuw - 3 Aug 2019
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Gergoran Moussou
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Re: [AAR] 2020-01-05 // Alpha-Bird Kestrel LowSec roam

Post by Gergoran Moussou »

Fleets going badly is something to be expected for a new FC. I'm not sure that it's particularly good to avoid saying it. To put it bluntly, inexperienced FCs have to experience failure after failure in order gain the experience necessary to succeed consistently. While I managed to become good enough in WHC's environment that I ended up with a winning record, I still haven't gotten out of the "mostly failing" stage with just a few months more experience than Nienke (and the fights that I FCed in WHC weren't among the toughest fights that I found myself in during my time as part of WHC, and part of why I was so successful in those fights was that the corp's best scouts and line members with the most PVP experience were also at WHC, there are very few situations where the FC can succeed alone without other people like scouts helping).

You have to remember that this game is almost 17 years old now. If you find yourself up against a fleet, rather than just catching ratters or blobbing solo PVP people, you'll almost certainly find yourself against people who've seen your fleet comp plenty more times than you and only showed up because they brought something that they thought stood a reasonable chance of beating you (this is why having good scouts is important, for roaming fleets, probably more important than having a good FC, knowing what you're up against and whether or not you want to take the fight is important). To put it into perspective, by the time that I left E-Uni in October, I was the most experienced person who frequently did FC stuff in USTZ. In WAFFLES, everyone else has been playing for years longer than I have and the most recent person to become an official FC for the corp (Budda Sereda, who joined a bit over a month before I did) hasn't even played as long as many of the other corp FCs have been FCing. Whenever you go out looking for fights, you're likely to find yourself up against people like that (or Tuskers; there's a reason why they have a reputation as the absolute best at their specialty and you fought against their specialty) and most are going to be specifically out to win rather than give you a reasonably even match which will be enjoyable for both sides. EVE is a game renowned for having a harsh and brutal learning curve. It may not be what it used to be, but it's it's still not easy. Doing badly is something to be expected and it is not something to be ashamed of. Anyone who has ever gotten anywhere in this brutal game has done so by repeatedly doing badly, learning from those mistakes, and persisting. As far as I can tell, you appear to be trying to improve, which is the correct way to handle the situation.

That which does not kill you makes you stronger. Keep going.

If you want to set up a fight with me, let me know and I can probably get a reasonably even fight for you (I might have trouble bringing small enough numbers.

I'd also suggest trying Talwars for T1 light missile ships because they do more damage than Kestrels and E-Uni has a Talwar doctrine which you can get SRP for last time I checked.
Former E-Uni FC (LSC/WHC).

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