[AAR] engagement ivy vs rvb at ithar

[Christoph Patrouette]

I don't even ask why the caracals were in grapple/web range...

Because we had people with 31km range on the caracals. We asked.

EDIT: Looking through the logs, looks like that might have been a different fleet. But we had to assume somebody had L1 skills for everything...

EDIT2: Never mind, i was correct. Got disconnected during the fleet and was looking at the wrong log.

So we had to stay under 30km away from the BSs, with navigation as it is, probably a distance of 20km.

EDIT3: If it is of interest i can upload a video of the fight tomorrow or the day after.

[Yrgrasil]

I don't even ask why the caracals were in grapple/web range...

Because we had people with 31km range on the caracals. We asked.

EDIT: Looking through the logs, looks like that might have been a different fleet. But we had to assume somebody had L1 skills for everything...

EDIT2: Never mind, i was correct. Got disconnected during the fleet and was looking at the wrong log.

So we had to stay under 30km away from the BSs, with navigation as it is, probably a distance of 20km.

EDIT3: If it is of interest i can upload a video of the fight tomorrow or the day after.

Yeh even if there is some guys who have not trained yet the blap skillplan, it would be the better call to stay still at 35-40km range then, because geddon neuts are kinda nasty (its still in neut range tho, but at least not optimal).
Also geddon is not a bhaal, so web/grapple is unbonused and has only just the usual 13/14km heated before boosts

[Taylor Moon Mahyisti]

EDIT3: If it is of interest i can upload a video of the fight tomorrow or the day after.

i would like that please

[Batto Ashitaka]

I may have been guilty of calling for hardeners on as logi. Maybe It wasn't clear enough it was for logi only (I just typed "cap chain and hardeners on).
The reason I did this is because in several if not all fleet I noticed as logi several people will forget it, even people that knows better.
This is problematic enough on a dps ship, but it is critical on a logi pilot as you will always have one less ship repping him.
With cap chain, there is no reason an osprey should not have it's hardeners on, I'm not saying it was the case in this fleet, just that I have seen it enough to start reminding it for logi.

If it's a bad thing to call for I apologize and will stop doing it.

For my experience as logi. when primaried I was neuted, webbed, scram/pointed. There was enough neuting pressure to have to reactivate modules despite cap chain. This also means that in the first engagement once picked off I was quickly gettinf far from my anchor (and the fleet).


Asuka already touched on the logi anchor issue and there was a cap chain misunderstanding on the second engagement. I'll just say this :

Let's make the logi channel the default option, not just for sorting out cap chain when more than 3 but also having our little briefing.
Just have the logi FC create his own channel, he'll put anchor instruction and useful info for logi (like cap chain method, the way the anchor should move) on the MOTD.
If the situation changes, edit the MOTD.
The logi FC will brief the logi squad in that channel at the begining and even ask for advices when the anchor is in a learning phase.

With this setup we could have avoided positioning issue and have a 100% formed cap chain even as people die and we must readjust on the fly.

With the kind of ewar we were facing we should have definitly positioned ourself out of harm's way, I think all logi had an opti just below 30km so even if the caracal squad is suddently on top of the ennemy we should have enough leeway to avoid an incoming battleship

Anyway, despite the issues, I'd like to thanks my fellow logi, I was too sick/sleepy to step up in the role of anchor so I probably would have done worse.

[Turlough Dominian]

If it's a bad thing to call for I apologize and will stop doing it.

its fine to help give reminders , e-uni got alot of new players also so i think the reminders help, obviously pick the timeing when to do it not like when fc chit chatting, but ye is fine to call for hardeners on etc

also for hardners on , its jsut two words boom nice and quick <3

[Cutecumber Roll]

No offence but this is a terrible AAR.

Nothing in the original post explains how a fleet with a full logistics wing managed to whelp itself to a force 1/3 as strong.

This was not in any way an OP success. You lost a fleet more valuable than the structure you were defending.

This isn't just some big oopsie resulting from an unfitted structure. The fact the structure wasn't fitted barely even matters for this AAR tbh and certainly shouldn't be the entire focus of everything you wrote.

You whelped a fleet and the goal of this AAR should be to evaluate the mistakes made that led to that.

You have an awesome comment from Asuka which does a good job evaluating many of the mistakes made here. I disagree with a few of his conclusiuons but he is looking at the right things: pilot errors, positioning problems, some of the shitfits you had in fleet... & he is absolutely right that a good LC who is ON COMMS would have made a world of difference.

Work on incorporating some of that sort of evaluation in your future AARs. Starting the thread with some real self reflection after a massacre like this really helps steer the conversation in the right direction early.

[Yto Itinen]

I'm not gonna comment on a fleet where I was not present, but if some previous E-UNI losses have come from our FCs/fleets not being ready or experienced I think this fight underlines some organizational problems, which up to now has been a strong point of ours.

The fact that the structure was unfitted has been underlined and I hope management will take some time to consider the state of our structures and make sure this does not happen again. If it's a financial problem, let us know and we will help, we're not gonna count coppers on effective defenses.

What Ares said about the fact that he couldn't get a read on fleet numbers and Asuka's comments on logi confusion underline for me an even bigger problem, that of a bad chain of command and lack of versatility. The standing fleets are there for random responses to quick, almost undetected attacks and ganks, hoping for a last second save of those who are in danger. This was a structure defense operation, and it should have had a proper fleet and a proper mumble channel with sub-channels. We have both of these things, not using them is a tactical and organizational error. Switching fleet and comms will take seconds for those that are already active and those who are left in the standing fleet can redirect newcomers/edit the MoTD/ answer slack pings. Having to speak over FC as a Logi Fc in some QRFs has made me very aware of the trouble created by crowded comms, but since those were hastily thrown together we made do.

TL;DR:An operation that required 26j would have definitely needed a fleet reform and separate mumble comms.

Fly fun UNI, and fly smart!

Yto Itinen

[Ky Hanomaa]

We did have both a separate Mumble channel as well as a separate fleet - what was bothering me was that there were people still hanging around in AMC who refused (even after asking them for help) to take part in the defense of their own structure. On top of that, there were like Ares said already way more people in our fleet than people actually attending which is still confusing me - were they speeding towards us? Or did they only want to listen in on how we were holding up with no intent of helping us out?

[Laura Karpinski]

The fact that the structure was unfitted has been underlined and I hope management will take some time to consider the state of our structures and make sure this does not happen again. If it's a financial problem, let us know and we will help, we're not gonna count coppers on effective defenses.

It was not a financial problem, but thank you for the offer. Structure is now fit properly.

[Falling Snow KumaMoto]

I was on mumble comms and in fleet (though I moved myself to the "not present" tabs at the bottom of the fleet). I was in a shuttle zooming down from HSC, but the fight ended as I jumped into Ashab. There may have been noncombatants hanging about for all I know, but for sure I was not the only one too slow to help.

[Christoph Patrouette]

VIDEO