[WHC] the beast visits

[Savannah Tokila]

fight on the 7.8.2019 in Innu

Roam members (10)

Spoiler

Amoni Panala - Republic Fleet Firetail, Federation Navy Comet
Ana'ander Lamora - Retribution, Oracle
Canbti Remuw - Imperial Navy Slicer, Oracle
Che Galtor - Enyo, Talos
Dallidiem Igraine - Enyo
Gergoran Moussou - Retribution
Githzy Galtor - Praxis
Macilles - Deacon
Marcus Arilia - Nemesis
Savannah Tokila - Jaguar

Video, Translated in CC courtesy Bessie Busybody, thank you for this.

I hear Tempest in Innuendo on Eggs. I immediately call SS, thinking this is a rolling ship. So i jump into my jaguar quickly, to get initial tackle. We can hopefully bump him away from eggs with enough SS Ships, as that, in the past, has proven to work, remember SS can bump rolling Battleships!
Macilles heeds my call to a Deacon, the only Deacon, I undocked, not having the information, that the Tempest is moving away from the hole, if i had, id have waited with the undock until we got a second Deacon. after i land, i call that people shall undock and warp to me, while i tackle the Tempest, only after people were undocked, i realised that the Tempest was not at 0 on the Hole, and actually burning away, and i started to get a second Deacon, yet nobody responded. Watching the Video, we had 5 minutes, until he put ec drones onto the deacon, and then after 7 minutes, the deacon got close, but without a second deacon to help, and rep, he died, and not even 20 seconds later our second deacon, now our only deacon landed, We had enough time for someone to reship away from dps into a second deacon for these past minutes, which i was trying to repeat constantly, now instead of having two deacons and a praxis to neut (turns out, the neut damage isnt actually that good for the praxis, but its what we had available in that moment) we only had a single deacon, which definitely cant hold a praxis, i think i was trying to say, that the praxis should orbit the tempest (BTW; if you have no guns, always orbit instead of sitting still against something that has guns!), i think i remember saying that the praxis should have some sort of velocity, and when it was getting close to hull, i called that the praxis should try and burn away to try and gtfo. which didnt work, apparently.

The praxis dies, and i call for specific people, who i checked were not in enyos, comets or deacons, to reship into Oracles or Taloses, and when theyre ready warp to me (on the tempest), at 70, to dish some damage out. which eventually worked, but also, his cap charges were gone then.

The loki got wayyy too close to my liking. there were more than enough heavy tackle on grid, to keep it tackled. and in that moment i wanted more deeps, not more tackle.

During this, people wanted me to reship into LA, which i tried for a short period (thinking, an ashimuu with logi support wouldve given us the neut pressure needed to end it), trying to get exeqs lined up, but as was propably obvious then, we had issues fielding deacons, so i wasnt convinced this would go over well, especially with the tempest then applying better, so i called for LS long range dps, Bombers wouldve been fine as well, the long range advantage was important, as i did not want to try and get a solo scythe repping, as this fight nobody was stepping up for logi, so i had low hopes, so range tanking it was.

I think with the thinking downtime, id have gotten if we were stabilised with two deacons, instead of trying to get a second deacon, after say 2 minutes wouldve given me enough time to properly organise neuts and or dps in a controlled way, led to a cleaner kill, with less chaos and losses.

Kills and Losses

(22:08:07) J211936
Republic Fleet Firetail -20.52m

This is why keeping your Transversal, especially without an ADC up is important.

(22:13:52) J211936
Deacon -44.92m

This was a question of time without a second deacon, second deacon landed too late to save this deacon.

(22:17:15) J211936
Gnosis +89.31m
Capsule +8.51m
Praxis -106.93m

Gnosis is his Fueltruck. Praxis was offered to Neut him, but wasnt enough fast enough.

(22:23:15) J211936
Tempest +453.39m

reship of exess light SS ships to LS dps at range yielded this

Stats
ISK Destroyed: 551,212,565.54
ISK Lost: 172,366,799.35
ISK Delta: 378,845,766.19
Efficiency: 76.179%

[Pink Kondur]

I wasn't there, but i've watched the video on contemplated on a couple of options.

In hindsight what you could have done is get a C3WR solo exec on field instead of a deacon. Their reps reach out to 50km optimal while the AC tempest should only have a range of 30km. The SS should have enough buffer and speed tank to survive until they are locked and medium reps land. IMO calling for some LS support after a while was a good call to increase DPS, as at that time you did not know he was running out of cap charges.

Concerning the praxis: I know you didn't have another option available next to the praxis, but i'd like to speculate on what would've happend if you did.
Let me start out with the mentions that I personnaly would not want to warp either an ashimmu (twice the price) or bhaalgorn (even pricier) on grid without proper logi support.
Ashimmu neuts only reach out 10+5km, which is inside grappler range. From my pyfa endeavours, this still means about 100 DPS + drone damage on the ashimmu pre-grappler. I don't think it would have survived that long.
Bhaalgorn neuts reach 24+12km, so effective dps is reduced to drone dmg which it will tank for a while or can use its flight of lights to clear off.

When you do the number the Bhaalgorn seems to be the obvious choice. I do however think that a bhaalgorn (or any heavy asset) on grid might have caused a ping for help from his side. Baiting out heavy stuff has been a proven tactic to get some kills.

Keeping all this in mind i personally still might have gone with the Praxis over an ashimmu or bhaal, just because it is cheap to throw around .

[Marcus Arilia]

So one thing I think not mentioned was that coms chatter got pretty messy in multiple spots. It was identified pretty early that large deeps and neuts would likely be needed. One of the bigger confusion points was towards the end when LA and LS we’re called within about 10 sec of each other. You did a good job though Savannah once coms got messy of bringing it back and specifying individual pilots to go back and reship. It was a fun fight, granted all I did was launch torps from 60 off.

[Savannah Tokila]

i really like the thought of the C3WR exeq, although the transition period between the logi types i think wouldve been very hard or just not working. as it was already hard to find a second deacon, i didnt see it happening that we could get the additional people in heavy logi while we were already out with not enough logi.

so that transition was the biggest reason i was not prepared to drop an ashimmu even though it was possible, and the praxis was offered as a sacrifice to bob nearly, bc with rolling it just wont die!

but i think starting out with the C3WR wouldve not quite worked, right away, maybe after the mwd was shutdown and heavy tackle stablished, tho.