[AAR] BLAP VEXOR 24 Aug 19:30

[Zeon Alabel]

Roam members (13)

Spoiler

Alexander Oromov - Vexor
Arcturus Anar - Vexor
B'aldrick Aivoras - Hyena
Darth Galifreia - Augoror
Eileen Black - Augoror
Ersin Oghuz - Vexor
Erwin Madelung - Vexor
Mike Kingswell - Augoror
Muzzy Chuck - Vexor
Pest Hibra - Vexor
Pink Kondur - Punisher
Zeon Alabel - Vexor
averoth trojan - Vexor

So we formed up at Heydieles and started our roam after a brief newbro speech.

Kills and Losses

(20:21:59) Kinakka
Brutix Navy Issue +216.84m
We went towards Kinakka and out scout first spotted the BNI. I had the vanguard jump in and try to bait it and we successfully did that at a large. The BNI had a logi coming to help it but we managed to blap it off before the logi could land. As soon as the BNI died, our scout reports a solo Harbinger. We landed on gate with it, jumped through and killed that too. It was then we realised that it was part of a much larger fleet. We repaired and made ourselves scarce from there. But unfortunately BOB was not very happy with our success in getting these two kills. We landed directly into fleet of Wolfs and kestrels with a Pontifex and 5 deacons. Our logi held on for quite a while but then their ECMs landed and we lost all our logi and 3 vexors. It was a close fight and had we had 1 more Aug, I think we could have taken the field. But overall it was a great learning experience.
(20:29:33) Pavanakka
Harbinger +126.81m
Capsule +98.82m

(20:41:16) Eha
Hyena -42.83m
Augoror -14.57m
Augoror -26.01m
Vexor -42.49m
Augoror -26.01m
Vexor -34.09m
Vexor -36.74m
Capsule -47.39m

We took a small break after the fight and we had 4 more Vexers and a tackle still left. So we decided to make our way back to Hey while looking for some lone targets. But alas, it was not to be. We landed in an even bigger fleet this time with Guardians. I was the only one who got caught luckily and died. Then our Newbro decides to just go back and die in a glorious flame of fire. (For the fun of it I am guessing. Should ask him next time. )

At this time we see some Caps in system fighting a spectre fleet. So we quickly end our own fleet (or rather what was left of it) and decide to try and join in with spectre to get on some capital kills.
(21:09:53) Nennamaila
Vexor -26.65m

(21:15:18) Pynekastoh
Vexor -20.66m
Capsule -0.07m
Punisher -7.86m


Overall it was a pretty fun fleet. Learned quite a bit about tactics that can work. I do feel that I need to improve my communication with my Scouts a bit more.
Stats
ISK Destroyed: 442,475,769.09
ISK Lost: 325,362,425.08
ISK Delta: 117,113,344.01
Efficiency: 57.626%

[Alexander Oromov]

I have to complain about this fleet. Upon joining Spectre Fleet, I came across FC wreck on gate, all that dropped was meta modules!

Was fun times with our gang.

@Mike Ersin and I made it all the way to Heyd, Ersin even evicted the fleet on gate, and after that we did even survive the entire Spectre fleet as well

Next week we have 2 more Blap Vexor fleets. Fun times ahead.

PS: Note to myself, next time assist drones.
PS: Note to fleet, use 5x Hammerheads vs deacons (hobgobs apply almost 50% less dps and ogre's probably don't track well.
PS: Note to everyone, dual web scram should be the mid slots in general.

[Mike Kingswell]

Some people have all the luck I guess...next time my friend...next time!

From logi side: even though they broke us in the end it was an intense and realy close fight und great fun!
I do like the cruiser setup since it seems to be more attractive for others to fight and thus get more content.

[Erwin Madelung]

Our logi held on for quite a while but then their ECMs landed and we lost all our logi and 3 vexors. It was a close fight and had we had 1 more Aug, I think we could have taken the field.

From logi side: even though they broke us in the end it was an intense and realy close fight und great fun!

I have to disagree with you two there. This wasn't a close fight. There wasn't a chance that we would break any of the opponents ships. Our DPS with Hobgoblin would have been 8*345=2760. And that's with the rails (I could not apply with my rails) and it's with perfect skills. The opponent had 5 logi one of them died later so we can check their fit https://zkillboard.com/kill/72058541/ 4 of those projected on one fifth gives 2311.8 EHP/s against thermal (their weakest resist but we mostly dealt therm) (cold reps). As we could not fully apply and not nearly have perfect skills + some people seemed to be so nice to use a mixed set of drones against frigates there was no chance to break any logi.
Now let's run the numbers from the other site they had 7 wolf and 5 punisher. Their Wolf fit is https://zkillboard.com/kill/72058559/ and deals 152 DPS cold. For punishers I assume Blaster fit with one MFS in the lows which is 210 DPS cold. This means 152*7+210*5 = 2114 (cold). We had 3 augorors that means only two can repair the third but the statement was that we would have hold with a fourth. Three BLAP Augs with perfect skills and hot reps projected on another BLAP Aug with T2 tank repair 2255.8 EHP/s. So even with one more we would have barely hold. Especially if you consider target swapping, lucky jams, and not perfect skills. This becomes even worse if you consider that one of the Augs was fitted with T1 tank. The numbers then go down to 1968.9 EHP/s. It won't surprise that the aug with T1 tank died first.

I wrote this up because I'm so surprised about the retrospective view that it was close. When we jumped the gate the 2-3 voice in coms agreed that we're in trouble. The best course of action would have been to tell people before we jump that we'll scatter immediately on the other site and then reform. This gives the best chances to lose only 1-3 people and continue the fleet.
I'm aware that it's easy to give such advise afterwards. It's simply a much more stressful situation if you jump a gate a cloak timer is counting down and 1-2 other persons are also talking.

PS: Note to everyone, dual web scram should be the mid slots in general.

The Vexor contracts weren't proper. If you look up the BLAP Vexor on the wiki or in fleetup it's supposed to have a web, a sebo, and a resebo in cargo. If you import those fits by pasting into the game those are sadly not transferred. You either have to create the fits ingame or have to import from file. I did the same mistake a while back.
In the beginning of a fleet the FC should usually make sure that some people refit to webs then. I don't know why the base fit has no scrams for refitting though.

[Zeon Alabel]

Hey Erwin

Thank you for your reply. Yes I agree with most of what you said. The fleet was in no way perfect and a call to scatter might have been the difference from losing 5 ships to 3. My decision not to scatter was based on the fact the if we lose 3 ships in scatter, what we could fight after would have been almost nothing. At the time, my thinking was that we might be able to trade at least a couple of kills for the kind of losses that we had.

As for the logi calculation, while your math is accurate, I wonder if I had called to spread the damps a bit more efficiently among their logi, target switching was also better and we had one more logi, we might not have won the field definitely but would have been able to trade way better than what we did.

I really do appreciate you giving me this feedback however. You raised some very valid points that I will definitely keep in mind in my next fleet.

[Alexander Oromov]

mike, eileen, darth, did you guys overheat your reps? did you also overheat your hardeners? if so, when did you start to do so?

it looked like their howitzer's did not chew through our tank by alpha, but by time, slowly getting us down each volley, right?

[Erwin Madelung]

[...] I wonder if I had called to spread the damps a bit more efficiently among their logi, target switching was also better and we had one more logi, we might not have won the field definitely but would have been able to trade way better than what we did.

While spreading damps is definitely good I don't think we would have broken anything. Above numbers dont even include the command dessie they had. They lost him later too btw https://zkillboard.com/kill/72058556/ . For loots of target switching to help you need to switch through approximately as many targets as the logi can lock. Deacons can lock 8 target. Further the weakest targets the Deacons should be prelocked by logi because logi prelocks other logi What would have helped are webs and target painters. In theory we had webs on the Hyena but he died first https://br.inyour.space/?s=45319&b=8229360&e=90&t=rvr click timeline If we had 2 webs and 1 painter on the primary I'm pretty sure we'd applied perfectly with all the DPS even the heavies and that would be easily enough to power through. (Full DPS with good skills is around 500 for the vexor which would make 4000 DPS by the whole fleet! Well not all have such good skills but just as a ballpark number. And there were some high SP people in the fleet.) That is the reason why I mentioned the contracts. Btw remember that webs need time to create their effect so to speak. After applying the webs the target needs a bit to slow down. Thus you would usually spread webs amoung the primary and the secondary.

mike, eileen, darth, did you guys overheat your reps? did you also overheat your hardeners? if so, when did you start to do so?

it looked like their howitzer's did not chew through our tank by alpha, but by time, slowly getting us down each volley, right?

Already in fleet they said that they didn't went down immediately but after some target switching of the opponents + some jams. My numbers above are for 4 logis. If you only have 3 logi = 2 logi can rep the third. Then they rep 1386.2 EHP/s with hot reps, armor bots and perfect skills but cold hardeners. With hot hardeners it's 1634.1 EHP/s. Opponents dps was 152*7+210*5 = 2114 (cold) or 178*7+241*5 = 2451 (hot). While it buys you time if you heat your hardeners and you should do it, it wouldn't have changed that the aug would have gone down.

edit: typos. (Probably still some there but those I saw the moment after I hit submit.)

[Biwako Acami]

Nice to see the willingness to learn from the FC while trying to keep things positive. One thing I would recommend is reading the Q&A section of the BLAP Vexor. This may have been written before the Meta changes for AFs but there are some good points in there from Raido that really flesh out the strengths and weaknesses of the BLAP Vexor.

IMO the engagement in question was an uphill fight from the get go and losing ships that would help you apply turned it into a struggle. There's nothing wrong with taking on such a fight. These fights really put the FC on the spot and bring to light the cohesion you have built within the group. It wouldn't be a learning fleet without a few whelps. Its a bit sad that fleets are bench-marked by ISK and not lessons learned.