## [FLEET] Armor frigates 2018-07-09

Member

### [FLEET] Armor frigates 2018-07-09

Roam members (22)
SPOILER WARNING!
Alexander Oromov - MaledictionAlf Saissore - MaledictionAuric Fulcrum - PunisherB'aldrick Aivoras - KeresBuzz Uisen - PunisherCezar Solette - EnyoDurnik Risalo - PunisherEndaras Oramara - PunisherGarm Zandor - Punisher, KestrelHideo Date - DeaconMike KingswellPink Kondur - PunisherRebulah Conundrum - EnyoRikali Laru - EnyoSfortz Ando - PunisherUnion Pivo - PontifexVenkalth - RifterZana Fehrnah - DeaconZarquu Fussuhfususarmenthus brown - Inquisitorashahara - Enyoaveroth trojan - Enyo

Scouts: Alexander Oromov Alf Saissore B'aldrick Aivoras
Logi: armenthus brown Hideo Date Zarquu Fussuhfusus Zana Fehrnah

Formup went pretty well.

Kills and Losses

We got lucky in the begining by 2 nice kills

(18:42:20) Harroule, Agoze
Punisher -9.12m
Cyclone +70.41m
Gila +309.76m

(19:03:44) Aubenall
Exequror +40.17m

(19:16:49) Martoh
Catalyst +7.86m
Atron +0.75m
Capsule +0.01m

(19:31:53) Kinakka
Malediction -51.96m

Here we played on gate with Huricanwe Fleet ONI and Slicer. I faild a boosh, so after 2 attemts we just left them.

(19:48:45) Pavanakka
Rifter -1.55m

When i took out the fleet i got convod by Captain Cean, if we want to take a fight. They had similar numbers, but they had a lot more t2 frigates than we so i declined. Just as i was to call to go back to Stack, we met them on the astra. Thei numbers were lover (we had same amount of logi). They still had mostly t2 frigates (with slicer and malus), but only 6 retributions.

We took to a small and slid. I again went for a boosh, this time i booshed too soon, and we didn't boosh anyone of. One from our fleet was left behind, but he managed to warp of. We then burned towards them, and they booshed to the back of our tail.

Since they were also spred out, their retributions caought with us first, so i agressed retributions first, i did switch between 3 or for of them to activate their adc, and then deacions were in range, but at that time logi told me that we are loosing people too fast so i called for people to disengage.

In retrospect i shouldn't have booshed. Due to our numbers, it would be better to be 0 on beacon, and just go for their deacons first. And after I fail-ed the boosh, i should have probably warped the fleet away (they would have still booshed towards us and possibly catch a few but it would be better for the rest of the fleet), and possibly slide back into hcook.

The good thing was we were not caught off guard, i kept an eye on them on zkill and our scouts found them in time. We decided to take a fight, and I believe it was as fair fight as you can get in eve. I decided that i need some extra booshing practice, so i will schedule a practice, where we can discuss and try to boos people sliding into gates. And when to do it and when not.

(20:01:53) Nennamaila
Kestrel -11.78m
Inquisitor -1.93m
Punisher -8.36m
Capsule -0.01m
Punisher -9.15m
Enyo -67.07m
Punisher -3.47m
Enyo -43.59m
Enyo -45.24m
Deacon -47.35m
Pontifex -109.54m

Stats
ISK Destroyed: 428,954,881.89
ISK Lost: 410,116,207.84
ISK Delta: 18,838,674.05
Efficiency: 51.123%

please provide feedback. I would like to get better at fleet fights, not just get ganks, that's why I try to take those fights. Would you prefer I continue or would you prefer more standard uni "gank" fleet? I was thinking about using trashers for that?

Member

### Re: [FLEET] Armor frigates 2018-07-09

Keep going as you do now. The more consistency we'll get over time, the better fleets and turnout we'll have. And once we get consistency and experience we can pretty much have ganks AND take fleet fights as we see fit.

Member

### Re: [FLEET] Armor frigates 2018-07-09

Definitely keep taking fleet fights. I learned more in that fight with Salt Farmers than any amount of blobbing big shinies. Specifically listening to you call targets and switches and practicing decycling and moving to the new primaries was good practice.

I was wondering why we did not go for their logi first, but it seems they were too far away after their boosh? In this sort of engagement is logi usually primary if you can reach them?

Member

### Re: [FLEET] Armor frigates 2018-07-09

Alexander Oromov wrote:Keep going as you do now. The more consistency we'll get over time, the better fleets and turnout we'll have. And once we get consistency and experience we can pretty much have ganks AND take fleet fights as we see fit.

From own experience I would add to this:
try to stay to one doctrine for awhile. I know that contradicts to FCC requirements, but... each doctrine is different and running a new one every 2 weeks you will "learn" them all (if you can reasonably learn it in 2 weeks), but you won't master it and it will be harder to hit 'above your weight'.
Also, is good to pick OWN doctrine and keep flying something which works well, this helps in building a consistent group of pilots who often fly together.

please provide feedback. I would like to get better at fleet fights, not just get ganks, that's why I try to take those fights. Would you prefer I continue or would you prefer more standard uni "gank" fleet? I was thinking about using trashers for that?

"Gank fleets" are fun till some extent and only if content "keeps coming". It is also good for new FC to start practicing leading fleets and building confidence. But at some point you and your pilots will get bored and you will be looking for fights. Yes, you will have loses. You may feel bad and disappointed.

The thing I'd recommend is to work really hard on getting somebody to backseat you to support in decision making and/or provide you timely specific feedback on what to do better. Writing AAR is better than nothing, but I'm sure that if, for example, Glen was with you in the fleet and if you asked him "Should I boosh or stay at 0" he would recommend you some tactical idea and you would make some kills.

In retrospect i shouldn't have booshed

Yeah, I believe you that's right: brawler doctrine fight at 0. But you've made this decision after the fight when you think calmly. In a heat of the battle, after few hours of roaming when you are already tired, decisions are not always the best and having an experienced FC helps A LOT!
An alternative could be to wait for their fleet to land, scram their logies and try booshing the rest. They will probably try to do the same... but if you have more in numbers you can probably out-dps them.

But ... you did not have more numbers. Even worse, according to kills numbers were even, but their proportion of t2 DD and logies was like 50% higher than yours. Would I take that engagement? I guess I would ask fleet if they all are ready to die, got confirmation (usually people are ok to take uphill fights), and ... also whelped the fleet From one side it feels bad whelping fleets. From another: how can you otherwise learn?

Keep running fleets, take uphill fights, but make sure you have a plan! And if the plan did not work out, learn from that and make a better plan next time.
Last edited by Budda Sereda on 2018.07.09 22:30, edited 1 time in total.

Member

### Re: [FLEET] Armor frigates 2018-07-09

Budda Sereda wrote:
Alexander Oromov wrote:Keep going as you do now. The more consistency we'll get over time, the better fleets and turnout we'll have. And once we get consistency and experience we can pretty much have ganks AND take fleet fights as we see fit.

From own experience I would add to this:
try to stay to one doctrine for awhile. I know that contradicts to FCC requirements, but... each doctrine is different and running a new one every 2 weeks you will "learn" them all (if you can reasonably learn it in 2 weeks), but you won't master it and it will be harder to hit 'above your weight'.
Also, is good to pick OWN doctrine and keep flying something which works well, this helps in building a consistent group of pilots who often fly together.

Yes! A consistent doctrine leads to a consistent experience gain and eventually to mastery. Having a core of regular pilots who know and support each other makes it also easier for new players to join up and improve along everyone else.

Instead of running different doctrines, it's also possible to slowly expand on the existing one, and adjust every once in a while.

Member

### Re: [FLEET] Armor frigates 2018-07-09

This was a fun fleet. However, it was both confusing and frustrating in the aspect of multiple people giving orders. I'm not sure if there were "mentors" in the fleet, but there seemed to be people trying to talk over the FC. This made it hard to discern what/how the fleet was being ordered.

As for the last battle, I'm all for stretching and testing our capabilities. I would love to continue to get into "Fleet" oriented roams instead of "Gank" oriented roams. Obviously, mistakes are going to be made (maybe/probably by everyone in some fashion), but testing ourselves is the only way to improve.

Member

### Re: [FLEET] Armor frigates 2018-07-09

First Video Link https://youtu.be/AzHs73zbSTI

To be Honest i expected the Bosh on the Warp in, and it was alright. (Beside that Kestrel) Cause i come to a fight so if the boosh is succesfull you have a nice start with a free kill, if not you dont have disadvantage. The unfortunate Descison was that you decided to burn toward us, cause well we come to fight so we will not just go way while both fleets have full firepower.

Well but to be Honest that wasn't a so big disadvantage you just needed to burn few kilometers back.
In Fight: The fight was Pretty Solid your T2 Ships Hold, ADC where used everything was pretty solid.
The disadvantage of the Enyo was your short range so Target Changes need longer until everyone applied DMG and let us more time to Switch Reps.

What would i Change:
When you see that you cant fast takeout mainline ships (Retributions in our case), take out the weaker DPS ships so you Logi can better Hold (Slicer, Maulus -> NAVY <-, Cruor, Punisher)

But to be Honest it was one of the Best Fight we had with you Guys in a While
p.s. my english still sucks

Member

### Re: [FLEET] Armor frigates 2018-07-09

Thanks for bringing it Captain Cean,

I will take out similar fleets in future. We will try to get better,

Quick question, have you considered taking more booshers in similar fleet and make it a snatch fleet ?

Member

### Re: [FLEET] Armor frigates 2018-07-09

Alexander Oromov wrote:The thing I'd recommend is to work really hard on getting somebody to backseat you to support in decision making and/or provide you timely specific feedback on what to do better. Writing AAR is better than nothing, but I'm sure that if, for example, Glen was with you in the fleet and if you asked him "Should I boosh or stay at 0" he would recommend you some tactical idea and you would make some kills.

This can be good, but needs to be done with care. I've been on a few fleets with newer FCs where one (or more) more experienced FCs have come along to "support", but have talked over the FC, contradicted his orders, argued with him on open comms and generally made the whole fleet suck, both in the "failing to get fights" and the "well, this is awkward..." senses.

Have support on hand, yes, but my advice would be to make sure that support knows that it's "support" not "competition", and to make use of a command channel or whisper hotkey to keep your support conversations private from the rest of the fleet.

Fleet Command Course Manager

### Re: [FLEET] Armor frigates 2018-07-09

I really enjoyed the fleet - it can get confusing if some more experienced fleet members, who are trying to help, take over comms from the FC for less experienced pilots. Something I need to remember.

As the Keres pilot I felt a little redundant I the fleet fight - I damped the slicer and salty fc (sorry capt lol) and then picked a random deacon or dps. In retrospect the Maulus Navy would have been good. Captain Caen tried to lock me at one point from the video but I suppose the damp did help.

Given the fight what should have been my priorities?

FCC Manager
|
Graduate | Assistant Orientation Manager | Senior Personnel Ofiicer

Member

### Re: [FLEET] Armor frigates 2018-07-09

All I heard about the fight was that it was pretty even regarding numbers and that logistics were at range.

From my intuition I'd say either (1) 2 damps each on a deacon with targeting range scripts if they were at 15-20 km range or (2) if deacons were closer than 15+20km, than probably 2 damps each on a deacon with scan res scripts.

Edit: Looks like 2 Keres damps with max skills will limit the deacon lock range to 14km...

1 damp --> 26.71km
2 damp --> 14.57km
3 damp --> 10.22km
4 damp --> 8.70km