[AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

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Alexander Oromov

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Post 2018.06.26 21:22

[AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

Debriefing

I haven't been FCing for more than 2 months already and thought it would be a good idea to go out this Tuesday. We started with 9 people out of Ostingele and got a few +1's and -1's along the way. We did not have the critical mass for some potential engagements along the way and didn't find any targets of opportunity just until the end.

FC Fleet Evaluation

SPOILER WARNING!
Fleet Awareness ------ ♦ ♦

    Hideo brought his Interceptor and took over as scout
    Hideo can improve his way of relaying intel by following the scheme: Who, where, what (local, grid, scan)

Fleet Cohesion --------

    we had some adorable new players with us who were doing great by following commands during their first fleet
    discipline to hold on gates was lacking which spooked away some of our targets

Fleet Energy ------ ♦ ♦

    Hideo did great with the scouting, averoth took over hunter duty and was ready to jump and help out Hideo
    there were several questions in fleet chat that were answered by fleet members, thank you guys!
    I wish to gradually increase communication through voice communications rather than chat in future

    PS: For some of us it was the first time to fly with each other. Once we get more accustomed to each other, we'll come together just fine.


Roam members (15)
SPOILER WARNING!
Alexander Oromov - Federation Navy Comet, Republic Fleet Firetail
B'aldrick Aivoras - Federation Navy Comet
Buzz Uisen (had to leave due to connection issues, thanks for trying!)
Durnik Risalo
Hideo Date - Stiletto (Scout)
Jun Mikoto - Kestrel (2IC)
Memery Rowkay - Thrasher
Mols Halleck - Keres
Phileas Levesque
Qi Ria Yutton - Moa
Toma Heleneto
Trillian Ituin - Federation Navy Comet
Union Pivo - Federation Navy Comet
Zarquu Fussuhfusus - Deacon, Caracal
averoth trojan - Federation Navy Comet (Hunter)


Kills and Losses

This is a curiosity of a kill. Qi Ria Yutton got on the kill while trying to catch up to us. I appears to have been ABA Gnosis vs RDRAW Hecate and Gate Guns.

(18:29:56) Loes
Gnosis +70.04m

This is another curiosity of a kill. We never had a Deacon in our fleet, but it appears to be Zarquu joining fleet from Tama and being caught by a Vigilant. Nasty!

(19:12:40) Tama
Deacon -96.99m

The next two losses are just unbelievable. We had a innocent Talwar at a small, Hideo went for it and called point. As we warped fleet in it appears that a Hel undocked. I called fleet to slide, because the fighters were already on grid. Our initial tackle, Hideo was cought. It appears Union who just joined up at that moment also got caught on the acceleration gate.

(19:12:40) Hikkoken
Stiletto -40.83m
Federation Navy Comet -40.35m

It was about time to get some first kills. I caught a Coercer and a Slicer and we burned them down. The fast web-scram Comet is really surprising to many of the locals. The Slicer did try to pull range, but didn't make it vs my overheated MWD.

(19:20:33) Hirri, Nisuwa
Coercer +11.26m
Capsule +0.01m
Imperial Navy Slicer +30.62m

We did pick up speed and I caught the Coercer. We burned him down, but I had to use a lot of heat. Just as I caught the incoming Wolf, he was damn fast, I overheated some more on my MWD. I finally webbed him, and just as I was about to web him, my web burned out, than I activated my scram and it was enough. My SAAR couldn't take more heat and had to reload. Unfortunately, I didn't make it, as the Wolf went down. Semi-good trade.

(19:33:03) Pynekastoh
Coercer +16.51m
Federation Navy Comet -38.19m
Wolf +51.3m
Capsule +6.36m

Next, I went to reship into Heydieles as my capsule got smartbombed into Heydieles. Pretty funny. We were patient to see if he's coming back, but he didn't.

(19:33:03) Abune
Capsule - Genolution 'Auroral' 197-variant -0.01m

We went to Sujarento and had to jump around the complexes to finally catch this unprepared Punisher.

(19:54:39) Sujarento
Punisher +7.25m
Capsule +0.01m

In Tama I spotted quite a lot of action on dscan. I saw a Phantasm at large with a group of frigs and destroyers. A rather unusal picture I did assume that the Phantasm was fighting a gang. I warped in, with the thought to third party, they were together though. I have already called in our gang though. Before gang lands, I die to the massive DPS, we primary the Daredevil, kill it and I call scatter. Trillian is going down and unfortunately, Zarquu gets caught in his Caracal as well.

(19:54:39) Tama
Republic Fleet Firetail -49.86m
Daredevil +121.04m
Federation Navy Comet -37.05m
Caracal -34.26m

We decide to call it and burn back to home. I call out a smart bombing Rookh gate camp. B'aldrick is having trouble with the route and get's caught by a Cynabal which appears to be with the Rookhs.

(19:54:39) Kedama

Federation Navy Comet -34.8m
Capsule - Genolution 'Auroral' 197-variant -20.92m

Stats
ISK Destroyed: 314,405,233.81
ISK Lost: 393,271,680.51
ISK Delta: -78,866,446.7
Efficiency: 44.428%

Let's hope for better Karma on Thursday!

____________________________________________________
Submit your feedback and reimbursement requests through the Fleet Feedback and Ship Replacement Program forms.
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Alexander Oromov

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Post 2018.06.26 21:33

Re: [AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

BTW some minor things we learned on this fleet:

Lame Locals :P

- add Khornes Children (Bait) and Horus Lupracal Lupracal (Hel) from Red Light Unicorns as negative standing to your contact list (Supercarrier Trap)
- add tahoma sakure as negative standing to your contact list as well (Smartbomber)

Safety Settings :)

- Check your safety settings before fleet! I added it to the pre-fleet routine.
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Analiese Aubernet

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Post 2018.06.27 03:37

Re: [AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

Horus Lupracal has been cloaking his Hel/Nidhoggur off of plexes in Hikkoken for a while. Avoid the children of the chaos gods!

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Jun Mikoto

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Post 2018.06.27 04:13

Re: [AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

o/

Thanks for the fleet, sorry that i had to drop a bit early, but i catched a cold and wasn't fit at all.

Regarding the Carrier:

Couldn't we kill his fighters and then point him just a bit just for the scare or to get a QRF from his freinds? With 3 damps from a maulus his locktime on a frigate should be minutes not seconds.
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Durnik Risalo

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Post 2018.06.27 04:35

Re: [AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

This fleet was an extremely frustrating fleet for me. Granted, I've only been on about 8-10 fleets and thought I was getting to the place where fleets were slowing down enough to follow and understand.

So, to be somewhat more specific:
1) we had fleet members everywhere at times (some trying to catch the fleet, some trying to regroup, some trying to go forward, etc) -- I'm hoping the FC knew this and was compensating/adjusting (but it wasn't evident to me)
2) it was *very* difficult trying to understand who the FC was talking to when he was with the scouts in different systems. I didn't know who the "we" or "us" was directed to at times: either the scouts or to us fleet members?
3) the inconsistency of commands and directions was very confusing throughout the fleet's duration

I don't really know how to describe this fleet's style -- it was either meant for fleet members that are advanced enough to know how to respond by the situation and not by words (i.e. an advanced fleet) or for fleet members that are comfortable with chaos. I guess I can assume I'm neither... yet.

I'm writing this to let others know how at least one newbro experienced this fleet. Take it for how I mean this post: something further for all of us to consider and *possibly* from which to learn -- or not.
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Alexander Oromov

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Post 2018.06.27 08:20

Re: [AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

Analiese Aubernet wrote:Horus Lupracal has been cloaking his Hel/Nidhoggur off of plexes in Hikkoken for a while. Avoid the children of the chaos gods!


Thanks, good to know. Saw him for the first time and it's noted now.

Jun Mikoto wrote:Regarding the Carrier:

Couldn't we kill his fighters and then point him just a bit just for the scare or to get a QRF from his freinds? With 3 damps from a maulus his locktime on a frigate should be minutes not seconds.


We wouldn't have the DPS to kill his fighters (even if we did, he'd just launch the next set) and we wouldn't have been able to stay on field (I assume Union and Hideo just got alpha'd off the field). With the right set up super carriers can even alpha jump freighters. The Hel was also sitting a thousand kilometers (or at least a couple of hundred kilometers) from the complex (didn't pay attention), so our Maulus would not help. Also carrier lock speed can actually be decent if you fit it for mischief like complex traps in Hikkoken, but he'll assign his fighters to that Talwar anyways, so it's really a loss there.
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Alexander Oromov

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Post 2018.06.27 09:01

Re: [AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

Durnik Risalo wrote:This fleet was an extremely frustrating fleet for me. Granted, I've only been on about 8-10 fleets and thought I was getting to the place where fleets were slowing down enough to follow and understand.

So, to be somewhat more specific:
1) we had fleet members everywhere at times (some trying to catch the fleet, some trying to regroup, some trying to go forward, etc) -- I'm hoping the FC knew this and was compensating/adjusting (but it wasn't evident to me)
2) it was *very* difficult trying to understand who the FC was talking to when he was with the scouts in different systems. I didn't know who the "we" or "us" was directed to at times: either the scouts or to us fleet members?
3) the inconsistency of commands and directions was very confusing throughout the fleet's duration

I don't really know how to describe this fleet's style -- it was either meant for fleet members that are advanced enough to know how to respond by the situation and not by words (i.e. an advanced fleet) or for fleet members that are comfortable with chaos. I guess I can assume I'm neither... yet.

I'm writing this to let others know how at least one newbro experienced this fleet. Take it for how I mean this post: something further for all of us to consider and *possibly* from which to learn -- or not.


Sorry to hear that this fleet was very frustrating for you, Durnik.

From a birds eye perspective:

We had a very small fleet of around 9-10 people of which 2-3 were brand new to fleets. I only flew with 4 of our pilots before, but didn't do so for more than 2 months. Even though we did the SGT with Hideo, he did scout for me for the first time in a regular fleet and during the fleet we had 4 people joining up from Stacmon, Tama, and elsewhere while we were already deep into our roam. One of them brought a cruiser to our fast-paced small-sized ships gang.

So, to a certain degree it was to be expected that when flying with a brand new crowd, that people have to adjust to each others style and way of communication.

Regarding your commentary:

(1) fleet split up: I consider folk that's joining up mid-fleet or brings cruisers to a small-sized fleet to be responsible to catch up. Don't get me wrong, I love reinforcements, but as a FC I'm not eager to slow down fleet or sacrifice our core's key strength (which in our case was speed and agility).

(2) who were people talking to: Generally, I'd love people to use the "who, where, what (local, grid, scan)" scheme for communication and intel. Since, we didn't learn or practice that, we went with the informal approach which, I agree, is inconsistent. I'd love to change that.

(3) insecurity regarding commands: Yes, I do tend to have a communication style that's more suitable for more advanced members, but I also believe that's how people learn the fastest. Cold water approach. In this fleet's case, however, I believe it was more an extension of our setup that I described above. Since we were small and informal, I kept it that way. However, if FC is not directly addressing fleet, than everyone on gate has to assume that I'm talking with the scouts and hunters and that the core of the fleet should NOT jump or warp away unless they are specifically told to do so.

Nevertheless, I hope we will be able to improve on all aspects in future fleets and would be happy to see you again roaming with us. To tackle the issues you described, I will also restart my scouting and communication class and probably work on some new player friendly speech (the later might take a while, unless I can use the one Hideo did for his fleet).
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Durnik Risalo

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Post 2018.06.27 17:24

Re: [AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

Thanks for he reply. Yes, I realize the fleet composition required adjustments and probably played some part in the experience.
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Phileas Levesque

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Post 2018.06.27 19:33

Re: [AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

That was my first time :p

Well, my first Fleet.

So I was very lost.

But I did learn a LOT.

I learned there were Safety Settings, I will be able to shoot at something next time. Let's say, if I can catch up the Fleet. But I've read in the wiki a Maulus should appear "fashionably late" , so I wasn't totally wrong !

Some-one shot at me ( no-one told him I was the useless one :p ) but I did survive, tanking the damage and warping away. That was, I think, my only contribution :D

Will roam again !
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Alexander Oromov

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Post 2018.06.27 20:43

Re: [AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

Thanks for the feedback. Highly appreciated. Looking forward to tomorrow.
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Rose Alice

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Post 2018.06.28 07:51

Re: [AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

Jun Mikoto wrote:
Regarding the Carrier:

Couldn't we kill his fighters and then point him just a bit just for the scare or to get a QRF from his freinds? With 3 damps from a maulus his locktime on a frigate should be minutes not seconds.


As someone is who has killed a carrier in assault frigs it is still hard and scary work and takes a long time.. If the carrier has network sensor array equipped the lock would probably be seconds due it's bonus.

If could just bring in fighters and pulse a smart bomb while calling for friendly help, reinforcement could take 5 mins and as long as he was active tanked fit he should have a problem.
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Alexander Oromov

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Post 2018.06.28 09:09

Re: [AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

And this was not a carrier, but a super carrier, which on top of it was out of reach.
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Alexander Oromov

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Post 2018.06.28 09:10

Re: [AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

Anyways, I changed today's fleet to Shield Atrons, taking a step back, going less fast and focusing on one thing tonight, cohesive fleet movement and no lemmings.
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Hideo Date

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Post 2018.06.30 09:36

Re: [AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

Chin up Alex! It was just an unlucky evening, happens^^
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Alexander Oromov

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Post 2018.06.30 11:38

Re: [AAR] Wolf Pack VIII - Slow and Desastrous ^^

Thanks Hideo. Thursday's fleet was quite fun, looking to improve gradually.

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