[AAR] Amygnon FOB attempt
Posted: 2018.03.04 08:08
This is a reposting of the response i had at the end of the HSC thread detailing the event, at Ersin's suggestion, i'm resposting it here for pulci discussion. Despite an official cancellation of the event, a few other pilots were setup to make an attempt with a smaller force. This the write up of that attempt. Apologies in advance for the wall of text.
The scheduled event on Saturday did not take place as intended, partially due to the LSC defense fleet that had taken priority, and it seems do to lack of commitment to wanting to field ships, and in retrospect this was an exceptionally good thing indeed given the level of failure and losses that would have been incurred if the full compliment of people i was looking for had shown up. And i cannot stress this enough, what did happen was a failure, though it could have been much worse.
Despite the warnings/misgivings expressed in this thread i decided to, against sound judgement, attempt a crack at the FOB, or rather clearing the initial response fleet utilizing a Nestor and Dominix for remote repair and utilizing a command ship provided by an experienced HSC pilot. To Capt Steel and Artor, i thank you both for your time, and i apologize immensely for putting your ships a such a risk.
The idea was to utilize the battleships to keep one another repaired, and in the event of needing to leave grid utilize large/medium Micro Jump Drives to get clear of the FOB forces, as the forces spawned by the FOB only have Points, not scrams. In practical terms, this worked beautifully, as two of the three ships made it out using this tactic, unfortunately i was slow on the activation and lost my ship to DPS, but a more coordinated use may have prevented this.
However DPS of incoming forces proved too much to be dealt with by un-bonused repairs from the ships, it was exceptionally close however...and may have been enough had i not made the call to spread tank between both Kinetic and Thermal as opposed doubling down on thermal. I'm sure many will ask "why bother taking for two damage types if the spawns only deal one?" The answer to this lies in the fact that it's possible for pirate haulers based from the FOB to return on grid and spawn their own defensive forces, forces which deal Kinetic damage.
After the attempt i was informed that the Haulers might not come back to the FOB if it is "engaged" in the sense the structure itself is attacked, something that would have certainly changed how i approached the issue, however even if our on grid tank held, the bigger issue came down to DPS, or rather the lack of DPS available from only two battleships (the command ship was not armed with weapons).
The simple truth is that given the number of spawns, and tank of those spawns, and logistics spawned to support them, short of risking Geckos, we did not have the numbers to crack even basic frigates through enemy reps, given our short time on grid, and this was not even counting for the possibility of one of us getting jammed out and losing locks on targets.
So what was learned? Well, for a short of a time as was spent on grid with the base itself, several things came to light in the post op analysis.
1) the exact spawning mechanics of these bases are truly unknown/not understood
Given the ships brought in comparison with other fleets spawned by those attempting to gather data, the spawns have a wide variance in type/class of ships spawned in relation to player fleets. Best working theory is that spawns are based on the number of high slots, regardless of if/how they are filled.
2) Usage of the MJD units as "in case of emergency" buttons are a potentially viable tactic/out, assuming Pirate Hauling forces are not present.
3) Tank for only the damage type you have to, not what "might" happen, as was stated earlier, the tank was holding close as times, and those few % points might have made the difference.
4) Incursions this is not.
In all honesty, there may never be a standardized doctrine for these bases to be dealt with a a fleet, due in no small part to the already in place mechanics, and the fact that CCP is still tinkering with some of the underlying mechanics that allow these bases to function.
TL;DR
I try and take a stab at a pirate FOB with two other people, it ends badly for me specifically, we didn't learn as much as we would have wanted, and the problem of a usable doctrine remains unsolved. Can't win them all.
And as a request to those who will inevitably criticize the unfinished doctrine originally placed forth, and other actions taken, i would ask you consider this. Comparatively few people actually committed ships to this, even before LSC had need for a defense fleet, and that the vast majority of the information being worked off of was...incomplete at best. Despite failings, losses were kept to a numerical minimum in terms of ships lost outside of a perfect extraction.
To those of you who are looking to try this in solitude in a few days, i wish you the best of luck, for it seems that RNG is only thing that can be counted upon when dealing with these structures.
The scheduled event on Saturday did not take place as intended, partially due to the LSC defense fleet that had taken priority, and it seems do to lack of commitment to wanting to field ships, and in retrospect this was an exceptionally good thing indeed given the level of failure and losses that would have been incurred if the full compliment of people i was looking for had shown up. And i cannot stress this enough, what did happen was a failure, though it could have been much worse.
Despite the warnings/misgivings expressed in this thread i decided to, against sound judgement, attempt a crack at the FOB, or rather clearing the initial response fleet utilizing a Nestor and Dominix for remote repair and utilizing a command ship provided by an experienced HSC pilot. To Capt Steel and Artor, i thank you both for your time, and i apologize immensely for putting your ships a such a risk.
The idea was to utilize the battleships to keep one another repaired, and in the event of needing to leave grid utilize large/medium Micro Jump Drives to get clear of the FOB forces, as the forces spawned by the FOB only have Points, not scrams. In practical terms, this worked beautifully, as two of the three ships made it out using this tactic, unfortunately i was slow on the activation and lost my ship to DPS, but a more coordinated use may have prevented this.
However DPS of incoming forces proved too much to be dealt with by un-bonused repairs from the ships, it was exceptionally close however...and may have been enough had i not made the call to spread tank between both Kinetic and Thermal as opposed doubling down on thermal. I'm sure many will ask "why bother taking for two damage types if the spawns only deal one?" The answer to this lies in the fact that it's possible for pirate haulers based from the FOB to return on grid and spawn their own defensive forces, forces which deal Kinetic damage.
After the attempt i was informed that the Haulers might not come back to the FOB if it is "engaged" in the sense the structure itself is attacked, something that would have certainly changed how i approached the issue, however even if our on grid tank held, the bigger issue came down to DPS, or rather the lack of DPS available from only two battleships (the command ship was not armed with weapons).
The simple truth is that given the number of spawns, and tank of those spawns, and logistics spawned to support them, short of risking Geckos, we did not have the numbers to crack even basic frigates through enemy reps, given our short time on grid, and this was not even counting for the possibility of one of us getting jammed out and losing locks on targets.
So what was learned? Well, for a short of a time as was spent on grid with the base itself, several things came to light in the post op analysis.
1) the exact spawning mechanics of these bases are truly unknown/not understood
Given the ships brought in comparison with other fleets spawned by those attempting to gather data, the spawns have a wide variance in type/class of ships spawned in relation to player fleets. Best working theory is that spawns are based on the number of high slots, regardless of if/how they are filled.
2) Usage of the MJD units as "in case of emergency" buttons are a potentially viable tactic/out, assuming Pirate Hauling forces are not present.
3) Tank for only the damage type you have to, not what "might" happen, as was stated earlier, the tank was holding close as times, and those few % points might have made the difference.
4) Incursions this is not.
In all honesty, there may never be a standardized doctrine for these bases to be dealt with a a fleet, due in no small part to the already in place mechanics, and the fact that CCP is still tinkering with some of the underlying mechanics that allow these bases to function.
TL;DR
I try and take a stab at a pirate FOB with two other people, it ends badly for me specifically, we didn't learn as much as we would have wanted, and the problem of a usable doctrine remains unsolved. Can't win them all.
And as a request to those who will inevitably criticize the unfinished doctrine originally placed forth, and other actions taken, i would ask you consider this. Comparatively few people actually committed ships to this, even before LSC had need for a defense fleet, and that the vast majority of the information being worked off of was...incomplete at best. Despite failings, losses were kept to a numerical minimum in terms of ships lost outside of a perfect extraction.
To those of you who are looking to try this in solitude in a few days, i wish you the best of luck, for it seems that RNG is only thing that can be counted upon when dealing with these structures.