[The Crazy 8's] E-Uni vs Goonswarm and Pandemic Horde in B-9

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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.10.29 07:11

[The Crazy 8's] E-Uni vs Goonswarm and Pandemic Horde in B-9

This was a 4th "Crazy" fleet, and that was Just WOW. . Those who've participated at fleet do know what I mean...

For those who does not know, "Crazy" means we don't follow a streamlined flow of the fleet where FC controls everything. Instead, we have quite a big freedom of actions: many scouts who look on content where they want, free comms (with respect/preference/priority to scouts). As FC I still control many things, but expectations to pilots here are a bit higher than usual.

Kudos to all, the biggest to logies: gaheris Anninen and Senmori Askold you guys stayed alive and kept us alive SO LONG!!!

Kudos to bomber pilots: your bombs just rocked! Pontifex, Deacon - even though we did not kill them it was nice to watch how bombs work. We need to learn to coordinate better, but as for the first go that was great!

That fight in B-9C24 was the hit of the day: even though we killed less than 300M ISK, that was exactly type of fight I wanted us to practice at.
Kudos to PwnOhSaurusRex from Goonswarm for accepting a fleet fight. He was generous enough to not primary myself, but in a heat of the battle, I guess they picked whoever was closer. And barely killed me. And Pandemic Horde 3rd partied the fight...
We eventually pushed Goonswarm guys from the grid, and in turn needed to retreat when PH undocked their QRF.

Thanks to Jyo and Z0x: I guess 2 scouts are enough if we go to nul-sec even in the "crazy" format...

Thanks to all for pieces of advice on avoiding that Nidhoggur and finding content. At some point we barely fall-back to Black Rise, but I'm happy we made our way into 7RM :)

// Reference to the fleet announcement: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 6&t=106935

Ok, let's go through some details.

Form-up.

We got 2 logies Senmori Askold and gaheris Anninen . Please do remind who was that as now I owe him a Kirin :)
We also got 2 scouts: Jyo and Z0X, Soul Vapor in a dictor (Flycatcher), 3 bombers (Arashi, Gerrath, and Space).
During form-up we also had EWar (Griffin), but don't see him on kills...
The rest DDs in Harpies (shield buffer), Enyo (self.rep), Slicer, Garmur.

Roam members (20)
SPOILER WARNING!
Arashi Shizukana
Beavis Alland
Budda Sereda
Ca'ain
Calder Ormand
Dark Matter1972
Farzol Nassan
Gerrath Sabrinn
Jyo Cbip
Lucius Septimus Severus
Rasterous
Senmori Askold
Soul Vapor
Space Warfare Development
Trevor Grambling
Tsuwen Sun
Will Musana
Wokum
Z0X Ambrye
gaheris Anninen


Roam through the solitude.

After undock we moved into NSC to pick-up 1 pilot and moved towards FD- and ice belts that were nearby. It looks like a quite dead space. But we were lucky to catch a Hecate. It was interesting to bait him. Scouts reported neutrals, I asked if there is a bubble on the out gate, they told "yes". I needed vanguard, cold for it, but as this was "Crazy" fleet I decided, why asking for help and moved ahead.
I simulated 'stupid' warp to the gate, was pulled into the bubble and in few seconds a Hecate landed on me. I made mistake and let him scram me... but we killed him quick enough. And bubble too, because why not?

(02:49:31Z) PF-346
Hecate +75.86m
Mobile Small Warp Disruptor I +0.97m

Placid.

Later we moved towards 7RM, and spotted a DST jumping into Maut from HS, we tried to catch him... but he still ran away and we gave up in Mercomesier where he presumable docked and logged off.
Scouts found some content in Mercomesier-Athounon pocket, but those folks had set of pickets and we only caught Caracal, the rest ran away as soon as fleet went into a system.

(03:09:38Z) Mercomesier
Caracal +21.72m
Capsule +0.01m

Whole way through low-sec our very own Soul Vapor wanted to bubble the gate :) and swearing how he "likes" the low-sec :) Ok, he got his chance later :)

Pure Blind.

We moved towards 7RM as planned, but same as last time (see Crazy 8's #3: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 6&t=106877), where not able to reach it from the first go. First, we decided to check ratters in a pocket near the RQH, spotted quite a few ships on dscan, but there were pickets: pretty much each gate has a citadel 1000km off with something sitting tethered. Quite a few VNIs docked up as soon as scouts enterred the system.

But, scouts know their duties and Z0X found and caught a Rattlesnake which for some reason did not listen to his corp-mates. Guys, be in fleet and comms when ratting:

(03:31:07Z) HPS5-C
Rattlesnake +830.97m
Capsule +561.06m

In the middle of the fight, I was asked if that's a time to drop a bubble and called to hold. I wanted to postpone bubble till the moment when we almost broke an RS so we could disengage on our own if needed.

It was a small response fleet in a form of few faction BS here and there, we would be able to shoot and kill it, but I got impression we got a cool loot so commanded to move into low-sec to secure it. 200M ISK, not too bad, but TBH, we should have taken fight. We could secure the loot by just dropping it in a container somewhere in safe BM.

This guys was caught on the gate:
(03:41:08Z) Mantenault
Procurer +24.45m

I wanted to come back to Pure Blind and tickle PH in their home, but was scouts reported about Nidhoggur sitting 2000km from the gate, updated about his capabilities to instalock up-to 9 targets... so I decided to not take the risk and we moved back into Placid.

Again Low-sec.

I was lost on some information I received from scout and he was killed while we were 2 jumps away.
(03:50:14Z) Vlillirier
Malediction -53.27m

It was almost 2 hours and I asked to 'c'-up if you want to continue:

[ 2017.10.29 03:54:14 ] Tsuwen Sun > c
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:14 ] Wokum > c
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:15 ] Lucius Septimus Severus > c
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:15 ] Z0X Ambrye > c
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:15 ] Senmori Askold > c
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:15 ] Calder Ormand > c
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:16 ] Gerrath Sabrinn > C!
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:16 ] Trevor Grambling > c
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:17 ] Beavis Alland > c
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:17 ] Jyo Cbip > c
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:18 ] Soul Vapor > c
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:18 ] gaheris Anninen > c
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:18 ] Arashi Shizukana > c
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:21 ] Will Musana > c
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:21 ] Space Warfare Development > C

I did not know any content-rich place near by and wanted to look into FW space, so asked to l-up if you ok with low-sec. Answer was:
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:24 ] Senmori Askold > n
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:24 ] Beavis Alland > n
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:25 ] Farzol Nassan > N
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:25 ] Will Musana > n
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:25 ] Soul Vapor > n
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:25 ] Tsuwen Sun > n
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:25 ] Trevor Grambling > N
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:26 ] Arashi Shizukana > k
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:26 ] Gerrath Sabrinn > N!!!!
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:27 ] Wokum > n
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:28 ] Calder Ormand > n
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:31 ] gaheris Anninen > n
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:33 ] Gerrath Sabrinn > Big fat N!
[ 2017.10.29 03:54:55 ] Gerrath Sabrinn > I wanna bomb something!

You guess what that means... :)

Cloud Ring and Fade.

Cloud Ring was just a few jumps away, unfortunately, we moved through it, trying to catch a Tengu, but could not :( He was cloaky and I assume nullified, but we tried :)

But... with all this we get close to Pure Blind from the other side... :) So, Fleet, set desto to 7RM

Fight with Goonswarm and Pandemic Horde.

In B-9 I did my 2nd mistake. The first one was to let Hecate scram me. That time I was saved by fleet and logies, this time I was punished for carelessness.
Scouts were scouting side pockets and in best traditions of "Crazy" fleets, I went to scout ahead of us. What I've noticed was is a chatter in local and I offered them a fight. We started discussing details, and at some point I saw a Caracal on the gate, he engaged me, I landed a point and called fleet to join the party, the only problem they were quite a bit far from me, and I wanted to preserve the point... maybe I should not... because it was not either ISK nor point positive.

(04:38:50Z) B-9C24
Harpy -50.28m
Caracal +35.53m
Capsule +0.01m

I got in a chat with PwnOhSaurusRex and he confirmed they will give us a fight in a kitchen sink fleet. We agreed to fight in F-NMX6.

gaheris Anninen needed to drop a fleet so he landed me his Kirin. As I ended up a logy I asked somebody to take FCing from here. Nobody was really excited about this, so Tsuro offered to jump into a Kirin and I got his Harpy.
Capsule -6.28m - not sure if that should be + or - :)

While we were waiting for the fight, scouts spotted VNI. I was hesitant engaging it as I thought that's PwnOhSaurusRex's fleet member and I wanted to honor the agreement and not fight until we both ready. Unfortunately, that VNI was not related to our opponents and just distracted me. While scouts streamed me intel, Soul (in a dictor) somehow appeared to be on the gate, our friends jumped into him and killed.
(04:46:12Z) B-9C24, J103839
Flycatcher -101.49m
Nemesis -86.02m
Capsule -0.01m

@Soul and Space: I'm curious how did you guys appear to be on the gate while the whole fleet was 40AU off? I guess you planned to keep fleet on the gate so we hammer them? That was a "Crazy" fleet, so that was your call, but ... please you should have fleet's support if you going to engage superior forces.

Opponents had Deacon, Pontifex, Heretic, and 7-8 Confessors.

It was an exciting fight, and I'm proud we execute it well by losing NOBODY during the engagement. Yes, I do not consider 2 recent loses as an engagement. TBH, I would expect opponents not even kill them as we planned to fight in F-NMX6 and they should have waited for us in that system... but we also need to be more cautious.

- we did land at range from the gate, out of bubble
- primaried a single logy (could not break him... really? Later I learned why)
- tried to switch primary
- stayed out of scram range
- disengaged while taking heavy damage
- bombed opponent to push through the edge
- loaded ammo as per engagement range

Though, for me, that was pretty much first kiting experience in nul-sec, same about having bombers as a super-weapon.
What I and some/many of us could do better in this fight:
1. Realize quicket that opponent are AB fit, with this we could come MUCH closer than we did (and prevent opponents from disengaging so easily). Though, they did have an MWD Heretic.
2. Call for point and secondary point on primaries.
3. Better coordinate bombs drop. Ok, we did learn quickly how to do that, but only after the 1st bomb drop.
4. Think what could be probably Deacon, Confessor, Pontifex, Heretic resists. For Amarr T2 that are Thermal (often plugged) and Kinetic. My default ammo type preference is Thermal, would work well today.

Here is a recording from my view of the part of the fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in7FFCL ... e=youtu.be

As you can see, quite a while we could not break anything. I could not understand why Deacon is tanking so well.
From Confessor's kill after the fight, I learned we fought RR Confessors, where 6 of them essentially work as 2 more Deacons. We could try breaking 1 of confessors or dictor/boosher by making hard switch, but because we were spread out that did not work well. May be I should have called to anchor up on me... and try primaries hard-switch?

Thing started changing once we dropped one bomb, and later another.

Plus Horde's guys joined fight... so Goonswarm armor gang left leaving one confessor. We killed quite a few ships from Horde, cleared the field completely, and loot the field. Hurray!!!

(05:02:43Z) B-9C24, F-NMX6
Confessor +100.58m
Myrmidon +91.09m
Dragoon +9.59m
Rupture +36.73m
Capsule +0.01m
Capsule +0.01m
Coercer +6.69m
Capsule +0.01m
Thorax +32.54m

In 5-10 minutes they cam back in much bigger number and either we were more relaxed and careless or whatever but we quickly lost few ships and I call it a fight (not sure if that's a proper English idiom). I'm interested to hear from those who remember more details.

(05:18:02Z) B-9C24
Omen +33.45m
Capsule +0.01m
Garmur -85.02m
Kirin -48.16m
Capsule -20.48m
Capsule -0.01m

On the way back we found a Bhaalgorn. I can spend 30 more minutes describing the way we fought it, it was AWESOME fight and confirmation to that was 3-4 guys who screemed "YEAYYY!!" when he poped :)
I will only say Bhaal did escape from us once :)
(05:38:53Z) RQH-MY
Kirin -70.45m
Enyo -50.87m
Bhaalgorn +521.28m

Later we were given a master class on kiting by https://zkillboard.com/character/95235307/:
(05:59:56Z) RQH-MY, Alamel
Taranis -43.42m
Purifier -112.72m

And you caught a Catalyst on the gate
Catalyst +12.09m

... but paied a Slicer to gate guns...
Imperial Navy Slicer -54.42m

After the fleet was over, Jyo who stayed thirsty killed a Retriever, but tool pulled his kill mail, so be it :)
(06:48:32Z) Iges
Retriever +31.81m
Capsule +0.01m

ISK Destroyed: 2,427,267,688.82
ISK Lost: 782,902,196.33
ISK Delta: 1,644,365,492.49
Efficiency: 75.612%

Overall, great fleet, food for thoughts before the next fleet:
1. Bombers did make a day, so I will need to have 20-30% of them in a fleet. Train them guys, and learn how to fly: they are just awesome!
2. Fits: guys, please never, NEVER EVER, undock if you have a spare module or rig slot. Ask FC if you can't find what you need: we better wait few more minutes than lack something.
3. Fleet fits: at least some do need tuning.

Feedback.
Please share your feedback: https://goo.gl/forms/W6OTiwPMD2Lu1lmL2 and hope to see all of you in the next fleet (12th of November, 2:00 EVE time).

P.S. Extra SRP were payed to Dictor and logy
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Ca'ain

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Post 2017.10.29 07:40

Re: [The Crazy 8's] E-Uni vs Goonswarm and Pandemic Horde in B-9

(05:59:56Z) RQH-MY, Alamel
Taranis -43.42m
Purifier -112.72m
Catalyst +12.09m
Imperial Navy Slicer -54.42m


I was flying through to the Gurista's Epic Arc and joined for a sad destruction. Tried to engage, didn't disengage fast enough. Blame it on sleep.
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
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Birdinator Wyld

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Post 2017.10.29 09:04

Re: [The Crazy 8's] E-Uni vs Goonswarm and Pandemic Horde in B-9

Listened in most of the night, happy to see bombers being utilized in the atmosphere, they are certainly a strategic force amplifier. Been tentative to join since I fly keres primarily and its another thing to track as an fc, but I think instead of following along through comms, I will join you in fleet. I spoke with members on both sides and both positively enjoyed it... Except for the Bhaalgorn pilot lol
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.10.29 18:35

Re: [The Crazy 8's] E-Uni vs Goonswarm and Pandemic Horde in B-9

Birdinator Wyld wrote:Listened in most of the night, happy to see bombers being utilized in the atmosphere, they are certainly a strategic force amplifier. Been tentative to join since I fly keres primarily and its another thing to track as an fc, but I think instead of following along through comms, I will join you in fleet. I spoke with members on both sides and both positively enjoyed it... Except for the Bhaalgorn pilot lol

He was lucky to escape us once, but made a mistake warping to a gate... luckily for him he did pick up our logy (at that moment we already have the only 1).
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.10.30 01:54

Re: [The Crazy 8's] E-Uni vs Goonswarm and Pandemic Horde in B-9

Updated 1st post with full AAR :) Hope it will be an interesting reading! :)
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Jyo Cbip

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Post 2017.10.30 19:11

Re: [The Crazy 8's] E-Uni vs Goonswarm and Pandemic Horde in B-9

Thanks for this fleet, it was lots of fun!

A couple comments-
First on the fleet format. "Crazy 8s" was originally a small gang fleet format, called so because the fleet size was limited to 8 pilots, who were expected to reserve a spot beforehand. This small fleet size is what enabled the kind of flying where pilots could be semi-independent and FC command could be decentralized. I'm not saying this to diminish the success of this fleet, but a 20 person fleet I do not consider a small gang fleet and you did not FC it as such. In fact, I observed that we were most successful when it was not FC'd as a small gang but instead as a regular fleet with strong command from Budda. Our losses happened when we got disorganized and our successes came when we were most coordinated. This was especially important as we had the added complication of the bomber wing which required coordinating to avoid bombing friendly pilots and drones.

I'm mostly bringing this up as I think this kind of fleet could be even more successful if the pretense of this being a small gang fleet is dispensed with. Also, as someone who loves flying in small gangs (which i consider at least <10, usually <5 pilots), I do not think a fleet like this gives a good small gang-like experience, because it's much much more difficult in a fleet of 20 to have decentralized command and scouting without causing total confusion. Additionaly, since this is a newbro-friendly Uni fleet we have, on average, less experienced pilots who will need one-on-one feedback and instruction to effectively fly as a small gang. We have had some small gang events that have been awesome (thinking of Luca's competition and the original, size-limited Crazy 8s) and I'd love to see more of that in the future as well as larger fleets like this.

IMO, all scouts should be in interceptors- Z0X did great but I do remember times when his warp speed caused him to not be able to leapfrog ahead of the fleet after checking a system off the main route as an inty-flying scout would be able to do. The additional speed and tackle capabilities of a true fast-tackle fitted inty are also a huge asset in the hands of a skilled pilot. For example, we spend quite a while playing with an Omen Navy in RQH-MY on the Mantenault gate who picked off a couple dudes. I was the only scram and point-fit inty in the fleet. So that is a good ship to chase and hold down a kiting ONI, but being the only inty on field he could easily pop me on the approach and there would be no way for the rest of the fleet to catch him after. However, 2 intys with skilled pilots makes it at least possible to trade 1 inty for the other getting tackle and staying under the ONI's guns. With spiraling in maybe it is even possible solo with no losses, but i'd be much more inclined to try with 2 rather than only 1 inty and reships far away. To be honest it makes me kinda sad to see not a lot of people flying intys in Uni right now (at least on the few USTZ fleets I can fly) as when I joined up I flew with some great inty pilots who emphasized the value of these ships and used them to impressive effect. As an inty pilot (go ahead, judge me as biased and egotistical ;)) I think intys are as deserving of special SRP as dictor and CD- they literally are the primary content-finders of your fleet and they are best suited to fly ahead of the fleet to quickly catch ratters or people going gate-to-gate due to their fast warp speed (this is how the two blingy BS kills were caught).

Also AAR correction:
The Procurer kill in Mantenault was actually mining in an ore anom- we had taken a bio break and were in/around a citadel in Mantenault, but he kept mining and I caught him at the anom. Again, not to harp on this but it show that in practice this was fleet was not operating like a small gang- only your scout was hunting for targets, despite most of the fleet being in system for a while and clearly having this guy on dscan.
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Space Warfare Development

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Post 2017.10.30 22:12

Re: [The Crazy 8's] E-Uni vs Goonswarm and Pandemic Horde in B-9

B-9C24, J103839
Flycatcher -101.49m
Nemesis -86.02m
Capsule -0.01m

@Soul and Space: I'm curious how did you guys appear to be on the gate while the whole fleet was 40AU off? I guess you planned to keep fleet on the gate so we hammer them? That was a "Crazy" fleet, so that was your call, but ... please you should have fleet's support if you going to engage superior forces.
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My bomber was at a bookmark 1AU aligned to the F-N gate in B-9. The fight started in F-N. I hit the Dscan and nothing appeared on the F-N gate so I made the call to warp to 0 and jump into F-N. In warp, bad guys came into B-9 from F-N and generated a bubble. Folks were busy fighting in F-N, I did not hear anyone in F-N call out targets were jumping from F-N into B-9. I landed in the B-9 bubble and burned out. I heard Arashi callout the bubble after I landed in it, but my align time to the sun was a horrible 12 seconds. I was focused on the yellow flashes and the sun on the right side and did not see the local list populate on the left side. I wish my eyeballs could split in two directions like a chameleon, or I need to grow a cyclops third eye. My ship was destroyed outside the bubble at the F-N gate in B-9 by four Goon Confessors.

Lesson learned:
-I had no bookmarks in this area of space. I had to choose to stay with the fleet or fall behind and make bookmarks. No gate bookmarks, no warp-to points.
-In a crazy fleet, the communication goes only as far as the fleet fight. There is no way anyone can see a small group jump through the gate among that chaos of flashing yellow lines. If I am in the next system, out of dscan range, with no bookmarks, I'm on my own.
-I will continue to trail behind the fleet and spend that extra ten minutes in each system the fleet passed through to create tacticals around the out gates. I won't be able to reach most fights, but I will accomplish the fleet goal of surviving at range.
-I cannot step on fight comms, so I will just remain safe and cloaked until an opportunity to ask questions presents itself.

Recommendation:
-Please create a separate DD bomber wing in fleet and mumble, to help coordinate bomber movement through the systems and improve communications at the gates.
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.11.01 02:33

Re: [The Crazy 8's] E-Uni vs Goonswarm and Pandemic Horde in B-9

Jyo Cbip wrote:Thanks for this fleet, it was lots of fun!
A couple comments-

Great! Did not hear much feedback last few months!

Jyo Cbip wrote:First on the fleet format. "Crazy 8s" was originally a small gang fleet format, called so because the fleet size was limited to 8 pilots, who were expected to reserve a spot beforehand. This small fleet size is what enabled the kind of flying where pilots could be semi-independent and FC command could be decentralized. I'm not saying this to diminish the success of this fleet, but a 20 person fleet I do not consider a small gang fleet and you did not FC it as such. In fact, I observed that we were most successful when it was not FC'd as a small gang but instead as a regular fleet with a strong command from Budda. Our losses happened when we got disorganized and our successes came when we were most coordinated. This was especially important as we had the added complication of the bomber wing which required coordinating to avoid bombing friendly pilots and drones.

I'm mostly bringing this up as I think this kind of fleet could be even more successful if the pretense of this being a small gang fleet is dispensed with. Also, as someone who loves flying in small gangs (which i consider at least <10, usually <5 pilots), I do not think a fleet like this gives a good small gang-like experience, because it's much much more difficult in a fleet of 20 to have decentralized command and scouting without causing total confusion. Additionaly, since this is a newbro-friendly Uni fleet we have, on average, less experienced pilots who will need one-on-one feedback and instruction to effectively fly as a small gang. We have had some small gang events that have been awesome (thinking of Luca's competition and the original, size-limited Crazy 8s) and I'd love to see more of that in the future as well as larger fleets like this.

I agree with many concerns here.
TBH, I did hope I will get more than 8 guys in a fleet. I did believe fleet should flow well because of the success of the previous fleet ( https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 6&t=106877 ). That time we also had more than 8 people and many scouts, yet it was fine.

But, from the other side, In a non-small fleet (more than 6-8 participants) I as FC can't expect every pilot to know what to do. There is high chance that we get newbro in a fleet or somebody who doesn't know how to execute that particular tactic. And it is hard to add an educational element in this environment. So I will consider this for my future fleets.

Jyo Cbip wrote:IMO, all scouts should be in interceptors- Z0X did great but I do remember times when his warp speed caused him to not be able to leapfrog ahead of the fleet after checking a system off the main route as an inty-flying scout would be able to do. The additional speed and tackle capabilities of a true fast-tackle fitted inty are also a huge asset in the hands of a skilled pilot. For example, we spend quite a while playing with an Omen Navy in RQH-MY on the Mantenault gate who picked off a couple dudes. I was the only scram and point-fit inty in the fleet. So that is a good ship to chase and hold down a kiting ONI, but being the only inty on field he could easily pop me on the approach and there would be no way for the rest of the fleet to catch him after. However, 2 intys with skilled pilots makes it at least possible to trade 1 inty for the other getting tackle and staying under the ONI's guns. With spiraling in maybe it is even possible solo with no losses, but i'd be much more inclined to try with 2 rather than only 1 inty and reships far away. To be honest it makes me kinda sad to see not a lot of people flying intys in Uni right now (at least on the few USTZ fleets I can fly) as when I joined up I flew with some great inty pilots who emphasized the value of these ships and used them to impressive effect. As an inty pilot (go ahead, judge me as biased and egotistical ;)) I think intys are as deserving of special SRP as dictor and CD- they literally are the primary content-finders of your fleet and they are best suited to fly ahead of the fleet to quickly catch ratters or people going gate-to-gate due to their fast warp speed (this is how the two blingy BS kills were caught).

I would also love to have scouts, especially in nul-sec fleets to fly interceptors.
In my few previous fleets I did provide extra SRP to ceptor pilots, ... and TBH, see no big reasons to not do the same going forward.
So, 2 things I did:
1. Initiated a discussion about increasing SRP for ceptors across of the E-Uni (from logistics department, LSC, NSC). Will see how successful that will be.
2. Paid extended SRP for ceptors loses in this fleet.
3. Will keep providing it going forward. And if I forgot, please feel free to remind me gently about this post :)

Jyo Cbip wrote:Also AAR correction:
The Procurer kill in Mantenault was actually mining in an ore anom- we had taken a bio break and were in/around a citadel in Mantenault, but he kept mining and I caught him at the anom. Again, not to harp on this but it shows that in practice this was fleet was not operating like a small gang- only your scout was hunting for targets, despite most of the fleet being in system for a while and clearly having this guy on dscan.

I agree. It was my intention to encourage more people to take initiative finding content, but it was fair: whoever was going to be a scout or tackle committed in the very beginning (you, Z0X, and myself in some ocasions).

Space Warfare Development wrote:@Soul and Space: I'm curious how did you guys appear to be on the gate while the whole fleet was 40AU off? I guess you planned to keep fleet on the gate so we hammer them? That was a "Crazy" fleet, so that was your call, but ... please you should have fleet's support if you going to engage superior forces.
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My bomber was at a bookmark 1AU aligned to the F-N gate in B-9. The fight started in F-N. I hit the Dscan and nothing appeared on the F-N gate so I made the call to warp to 0 and jump into F-N. In warp, bad guys came into B-9 from F-N and generated a bubble. Folks were busy fighting in F-N, I did not hear anyone in F-N call out targets were jumping from F-N into B-9. I landed in the B-9 bubble and burned out. I heard Arashi callout the bubble after I landed in it, but my align time to the sun was a horrible 12 seconds. I was focused on the yellow flashes and the sun on the right side and did not see the local list populate on the left side. I wish my eyeballs could split in two directions like a chameleon, or I need to grow a cyclops third eye. My ship was destroyed outside the bubble at the F-N gate in B-9 by four Goon Confessors.

12 seconds is only if you turn the MWD on, and you should not while you are running away.
And... you had a cloaking device..? Was something nearby so you could not cloak?

Space Warfare Development wrote:Lesson learned:
-I had no bookmarks in this area of space. I had to choose to stay with the fleet or fall behind and make bookmarks. No gate bookmarks, no warp-to points.

You can make BMs while in warp landing on the gate. With some practice, it is possible to make BMs in a range from 1000 till 10000 km from the gate. Better than nothing and costs almost no extra time.

Space Warfare Development wrote:-In a crazy fleet, the communication goes only as far as the fleet fight. There is no way anyone can see a small group jump through the gate among that chaos of flashing yellow lines. If I am in the next system, out of dscan range, with no bookmarks, I'm on my own.

I feel like I should restrict 'crazyness' of fleets to be applicable to small gangs only. What do you think?

Space Warfare Development wrote:-I will continue to trail behind the fleet and spend that extra ten minutes in each system the fleet passed through to create tacticals around the out gates. I won't be able to reach most fights, but I will accomplish the fleet goal of surviving at range.

Clearly, it is your call, but I would recommend to try first making BMs flying OFF the gate and landing on the gate together with fleet warp. Don't stay behind too far: no guarantee you will come through the same wasy soon again. And we don't have too many fights to allow luxury of skiping some of them.

Space Warfare Development wrote:-I cannot step on fight comms, so I will just remain safe and cloaked until an opportunity to ask questions presents itself.

This is a hard case to make a call.

Space Warfare Development wrote:Recommendation:
-Please create a separate DD bomber wing in fleet and mumble, to help coordinate bomber movement through the systems and improve communications at the gates.

That sounds right. Will do, and if I forget, please do remind!

Thanks Jyo and Space!
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.11.08 03:58

Re: [The Crazy 8's] E-Uni vs Goonswarm and Pandemic Horde in B-9

So, 2 things I did:
1. Initiated a discussion about increasing SRP for ceptors across of the E-Uni (from logistics department, LSC, NSC). Will see how successful that will be.
2. Paid extended SRP for ceptors loses in this fleet.
3. Will keep providing it going forward. And if I forgot, please feel free to remind me gently about this post :)

I'm glad to report that SRP for Fleet Interceptors loses was increased by Logistics department for 5M and is 15M now, LSC - for 10M as well and is 25M now!
Plus my extended SRP 15M (viewtopic.php?f=266&t=107204) makes it totally 40M SRP for losing interceptor at my fleet from LSC!

No reasons to not train and fly! :)
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Jyo Cbip

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Post 2017.11.10 22:44

Re: [The Crazy 8's] E-Uni vs Goonswarm and Pandemic Horde in B-9

Budda Sereda wrote:
So, 2 things I did:
1. Initiated a discussion about increasing SRP for ceptors across of the E-Uni (from logistics department, LSC, NSC). Will see how successful that will be.
2. Paid extended SRP for ceptors loses in this fleet.
3. Will keep providing it going forward. And if I forgot, please feel free to remind me gently about this post :)

I'm glad to report that SRP for Fleet Interceptors loses was increased by Logistics department for 5M and is 15M now, LSC - for 10M as well and is 25M now!
Plus my extended SRP 15M (viewtopic.php?f=266&t=107204) makes it totally 40M SRP for losing interceptor at my fleet from LSC!

No reasons to not train and fly! :)


Yay! More inty pilots!!

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