Theory Crafting: Stratios for killing Gurista-ratting ishtar

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K'Anpo Rimpoche
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Theory Crafting: Stratios for killing Gurista-ratting ishtar

Post by K'Anpo Rimpoche »

I’m looking for some ideas and advice about specific-purpose fitting of a PvP Stratios. I’ve trawled through killmails, checked out the fitting kitchen and other sites, and played in PYFA, but my first effort proved a dismal (and expensive) flop.

The role I am building for is semi-solo Ishtar killing in Guristas space, specifically YMJG-4 in Vale of the Silent … my current home-away-from-home.

I’m out there solo camping with my Sabre and want to introduce some more DPS via an alt and multiboxing. I am bubble camping so have no difficulty isolating my quarry at whatever range I want. The difficulty is in killing them.

The local rats steer the ratters towards delivering, and protecting against, kinetic > thermal >> other damage types. My research suggests that people use one of two distinct fits for this sort of PvP, either: Some sort of dual-repper armor tank with tailored resists; or a heavily tanked armor buffer fit, also with tailored resists.
My first attempt was the former type of fit, but the first Ishtar I caught dropped Caldari drones and just shredded me. My staggered dual armor reppers could not keep up and my heavy drones were delivering less than half the damage-per-hit that his were.

I opted for the active armor tank type of fit, figuring it was much more serviceable deep in hostile space where I have no easy access to stations or other friendly structures. Of course, the trade-off is that my buffer is limited so I absolutely need my reppers to be able to keep up. I’d had a previous fight, in that ship, with an RML Osprey Navy Issue. Even though I did not kill him that fight went down as I’d planned: I could stagger my reppers; My cap booster kept up; and the neut control allowed me to disengage and bravely run away when a tengu appeared.

Since my loss I have had a number of comments and fitting suggestions from the locals (FRT have been very civilised about my camping and killing them) so, while I train a few more stratios-support skills, I’m looking to better understand my fitting options and their pros-and-cons before I build another sacrificial-stratios.

I’m not posting a specific fit here, although I have several options lined up in PYFA, mostly because I’d like to explore the ideas and theory … and not get bogged down on critiquing one particular fit. My recent lossmail does show what I chose to run with, but I am not terribly happy with that – obviously :lol:

https://zkillboard.com/character/2116982653/

I suspect the answer to most of my questions is going to be “It depends”, but:
  • Is active or passive armor tanking innately better for this purpose;
  • Am I right to try boost kinetic >> thermal armor resistance;
  • Are Minamatar drones, delivering primarily explosive damage, the best choice;
  • Is there a ‘best fit’ approach for this sort of thing?
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Arin Mara
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Re: Theory Crafting: Stratios for killing Gurista-ratting ishtar

Post by Arin Mara »

I've read the questions even before I went to Venal. Now, a month later I've returned and there are still no answers :P

Are these questions so difficult that they cannot be answered? How about a few rules of thumb? ;)
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Miriel Larose
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Re: Theory Crafting: Stratios for killing Gurista-ratting ishtar

Post by Miriel Larose »

To answer your questions quickly...

Is active or passive armor tanking innately better for this purpose; I think active armor tank for PvE is the way to go.
Am I right to try boost kinetic >> thermal armor resistance; Vs Gurista, yes (https://i.imgur.com/dQm7EPO.png)
Are Minamatar drones, delivering primarily explosive damage, the best choice; no, vs Gurista: Kinetic >> thermal (https://i.imgur.com/dQm7EPO.png)
Is there a ‘best fit’ approach for this sort of thing?; no. Test, test, test, tune (Singularity is your friend). Really depends on your playstyle.

My own experience with a Stratios

Stratios is my main ship right now and I mostly use it to farm C1-C3 WH. I use it for combat, relic and data site. It also fitted for PvP.

Essentially I have multiple fit loaded in my cargo hold and I'm using a Mobile Depot to switch when needed. (See the annexe at the end)

My plan

In my PvP fit, I find a C1-C3 wormhole, park 100KM away from a moon or planet. Launch my probes and my mobile depot then orbit around it at 2400m cloaked. I scan the entire system and THEN I decide the fit I want to go.

If there's another exploration ship in the system, I hunt them down. A relic/data site? I swap my scramblers for an analyser + cargo scanner. Combat site? If the system is safe, I switch for the combat fit (it's the fit where you're the most weak if ganked, so you have to watch your d-scan.). Other Cruisers or BC? I find another WH or maybe try to hunt down the Cruiser. In my case, I usually try to find another WH.

Here's the PvP and Combat "stances" of my Stratios.

Code: Select all

[Stratios, PvP Stance]
'Meditation' Medium Armor Repairer I
Dark Blood Reactor Control Unit
Reactive Armor Hardener
Drone Damage Amplifier II
'Meditation' Medium Armor Repairer I

Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Warp Disruptor II
Medium F-RX Compact Capacitor Booster
Warp Scrambler II

Small Energy Nosferatu II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Explosive Armor Reinforcer I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator II



Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Gecko x2
Ogre II x7
Vespa EC-600 x5

Navy Cap Booster 800 x11
Nanite Repair Paste x50
Agency 'Hardshell' TB5 Dose II x1
Standard Exile Booster x1
Sisters Core Scanner Probe x16
-------

Code: Select all

[Stratios, Combat stance]
'Meditation' Medium Armor Repairer I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Multispectrum Energized Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
'Meditation' Medium Armor Repairer I

10MN Afterburner II
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Target Painter I
Cap Recharger II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II

Medium Explosive Armor Reinforcer I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator II



Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Gecko x2
Ogre II x7
Vespa EC-600 x5

Optimal Range Script x1
Tracking Speed Script x1
Scorch M x3
Conflagration M x3
Sisters Core Scanner Probe x16
Drones explanations


* Geckos, omni damage, bling, optional, dps for PvE (unless you want to lose 200mil in a PvP fight if the other focus them)
* Ogre II, thermal, PvP, main dps
* Hammerhead II, thermal, PvP, vs frigates if ogre doesn't hit, vs drones
* Hobgoblin II, thermal, PvP, vs drones
* Vespa EC-600, ecm, PvP, align, drop opponent target lock then warp out


The main goal is to have overlapping rigs between the stances and to have a couple of module that overlaps too.

The PvP fit is based on the "100MN Armour Rep Stratios" of this fit kitchen https://ashyin.space/fit-kitchen-stratios/.

The reason why I went for a PvP Double Rep fit is because armour buffer doesn't really work in a PvE environnement and Stratios with shield is not really a thing. Also, armor plating will take a lot of space in the cargo hold.

Anyway, with this setup, I'm able to run most of the C3 combat site (I didn't test them all). Also, I actually never did PvP with this fit in Tranquility, but I tested it a lot in Singularity (the test server). I play it as a kitter and it usually win vs buffer tank. Vs active tank, you can win, but it takes a long time and it really depends on how many booster cap you have in your cargo hold. My goal with the PvP fit was to be able to match with other cruisers, hunt down exploration frigates and run away vs BC+. With 5x vespa EC-600, you'll always be able to flee in 1v1 scenario.


My recommandation would be to test some fit in the Singularity server. Ask for a friend and test some PvP matchup if there's one you expectially want to beat.

Annexe

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Waruiru
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Re: Theory Crafting: Stratios for killing Gurista-ratting ishtar

Post by Waruiru »

Usually ratters have just enough tank to survive the rats. If you add dps to that, they go down, especially if you add a web and the npc damage goes up. They are part of your dps and you want to time the rat wave so they have been pushing the Ishtar tank and will keep doing so once you engage. Have you read up on how the local sites work, so you can time it? But you mention bubble camp, so are you catching them away from the rats?

You are right about their tank against the rats. They will likely have a big enough drone bay to have different damage types, and ecm, so don't over specializeyour tank. Explosive damage seems reasonable.
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Artoria Lapointe
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Re: Theory Crafting: Stratios for killing Gurista-ratting ishtar

Post by Artoria Lapointe »

So, I am gonna try my hand at this, but I am only new, so take what I say with many, many grains of salt, but I do tend to nose dive off the deep end when I start a new game, so let's do this!

Okay, so looking at zKillboard, and comparing most of the Ishtar's I found on there, there is what I can call a common Shield fit, and an Armour fit, I have used PYFA to work out the numbers, and here is what I have, I will also list tanking numbers with both active Assault Damage Control and just an online Assault Damaged Control, worth noting though, not all the fits on zKillboard had this module, but better to prepare for it rather then not.

Shield fit
- 747 DPS with Tech 2 Wasps (Assume these are in use, since Gurista NPC)
- 100.8 EHP/s Active Tank Vs. EM (With Activated Assault Damage Control: 373 EHP/s Vs. EM)
- 13.1k EHP Vs. EM
- Cap Stable @ 49.4%
- Max Speed: 219 m/s

Armour fit
- 747 DPS with Tech 2 Wasps (Assume these are in use, since Gurista NPC)
- 71.1 EHP/s Active Tank Vs. Explosive (With Activated Assault Damage Control: 256 EHP/s Vs. Explosive)
- 12.4k EHP Vs. Explosive
- Cap Stable @ 47.5%
- Max Speed: 1065 m/s

Now, with these stats, I worked on matching a Stratios Hull to cope with these numbers, in worse case scenario, once again, take all this with a grain of salt, I have been trying to learn as much and as fast as I can, I will explain some of my choices bellow.
[Stratios, K'Anpo Rimpoche]

Medium Armor Repairer II
Multispectrum Energized Membrane II
Damage Control II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Medium Armor Repairer II

Stasis Webifier II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
50MN Microwarpdrive II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Warp Scrambler II

Small Energy Neutralizer II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Core Probe Launcher II, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
- 333 DPS with Tech 2 Praetorsand 309 DPS with Tech 2 Beserkers
- 832.2 EHP/s Vs. Kinetic and Thermal (Pure)
- Dual Injected (Basically Cap Stable for a reasonable amount of time)
- Max Speed: 1744 m/s

Some quick notes;

1. With the Armour fit, it appears to be using a mix of Sig/Speed/Active Armour Tanking to "Tank" the NPC's, I do not know enough about how Sig and Speed Tanking works so I am not sure if that will effect your applied DPS, however, that bigger Propulsion mod they have strapped to the Hull has given it the turning circle of a ship in the Suez Canal, so yeah..

2. I went with the single Energized Plate rather then 2 as they have diminishing returns, and given that you can guess with reliable certainty what your targets damage output type will be, the Reactive will have you covered a little more in the surprise situation, and you get 100% out of it since it does have diminishing returns.

3. I went with 1x Tech 2 Aux Nano Pump and the 2x Tech 1 Aux Nano Pumps over switching one for a Nanobot Accelerator, even with the diminishing returns, as the Aux Pump doesn't mess with you Cap, and since you need that to survive, I figured it was ideal to capitalize on it, plus the extra 40-50 EHP/s wouldn't have made a difference.

4. I know the fit doesn't have much DPS on paper, but you don't really need it to smash these green eggs, and since they are a Drone focused ship, you can alleviate any DPS on your own Tank by focusing down their Drones.

Sorry if I missed anything, but wow, I love this game and this PYFA thingy, hope any of this helps, and if I am dead wrong, sorry, just trying my hand at this with what I know, also, if anyone knows the math behind Sig and Speed Tanking, also how Transversal and Velocity work, I would love to talk to you!

Fly safe, and good luck with your hunts!
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