LSC Fits

For discussion of ship fittings
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Shauny Tsero
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Title: LSC Manager, Orientation Officer, Titles Officer, Teaching, Ensign
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LSC Fits

Post by Shauny Tsero »

Hey all!!

I'm not going to post them all here but at LSC we have the fits Urban made, which some of you will know he was one of the gurus in uni. Not that I doubt him but before we put any up on Workbench we would like some input.

Please may I direct you to https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 4&t=116208 and please do post any constructive comments which will improve and/or update the fits.

Much appreciated!
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LSC Manager, Orientation Officer, Titles Officer, TA, Ensign, Former Student Advocate, Former Mentor Manager
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Taylor Moon Mahyisti
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Re: LSC Fits

Post by Taylor Moon Mahyisti »

hm ok, some interesting fits here

for the punisher you've got a kitey fit there, which is not something i see very often. for a kitey punisher it's not a bad fit, but the punisher isn't really meant for that. try out this tormentor instead, you do lose the element of surprise from having a kitey punisher, but it's easily worth it because you have a lot more dps and a defensive web.
Spoiler
[Tormentor, kite ultra-cheapo]
Damage Control I
Extruded Compact Heat Sink
Type-D Restrained Nanofiber Structure
Type-D Restrained Nanofiber Structure

5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Faint Scoped Warp Disruptor

Small Focused Anode Particle Stream I
Small Focused Anode Particle Stream I
Small Focused Anode Particle Stream I

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Energy Locus Coordinator I
Small Energy Locus Coordinator I



Acolyte I x2
Warrior I x2

Standard S x3
Ultraviolet S x3
Multifrequency S x3
rifter - not bad, i like it

thorax - good, i like the dual prop even though you have to go with electrons. but you can switch the plate for restrained which gives you better speed. restrained mwd has almost the same cap life as enduring but lower sig radius, so i would go with that as well, and you have enough cpu to t2 the scram and the web which doesnt cost very much.

have you considered using quad light omens instead? it's basically the same ship but with an extra low instead of a mid, which is potentially useful. you'd probably find it difficult to dual prop this though, so if that's a priority maybe stick with the thorax
Spoiler
[Omen, *blaster thorax]
1600mm Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Stasis Webifier II
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Warp Scrambler II

Quad Light Beam Laser II
Quad Light Beam Laser II
Quad Light Beam Laser II
Quad Light Beam Laser II
Quad Light Beam Laser II

Medium Energy Burst Aerator II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I



Valkyrie II x3
Hobgoblin II x2

Imperial Navy Multifrequency M x10
Gleam M x5
Nanite Repair Paste x50
Aurora M x5
celestis - looks pretty good

exeq - good fit, but consider using augorers instead. it does mean people have to cap chain, but it's well worth it as it has better repping power and tank, and can give out combat caps (only occasionally with this fit though, be careful not to collapse the cap chain)
Spoiler
[Augoror, 4/1 AB]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Shadow Serpentis Armor Explosive Hardener
Damage Control II
800mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates

Sensor Booster II
10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Sensor Booster II

Medium Remote Armor Repairer II
Medium Remote Armor Repairer II
Corpum A-Type Medium Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium Remote Armor Repairer II
Medium Remote Armor Repairer II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermal Pump I



Warrior II x4

Targeting Range Script x2
Scan Resolution Script x2
Nanite Repair Paste x50
ECCM Script x2
armageddon - very interesting fit, never seen something like that before. hard to tell how it's gonna be without flying it, let me know how you get on with it. i have seen rr domis before, not for a while though but they are reasonably good i think.


brutix - good. if you have some combat caps available you could maybe lose the cap booster

prophecy - good, but maybe consider using a command dessie for this role instead because of the link bonuses and booshing
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Gergoran Moussou
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Re: LSC Fits

Post by Gergoran Moussou »

I'm not able to access the LSC forum anymore, but I know which fits you are talking about.

The Rifter, Tormentor, and Punisher are pretty standard solo/small-gang roaming ships. They work pretty well for the purpose, with the main drawback being that faction frigates are prevalent enough for them to generally be at a disadvantage unless they outnumber the adversary. It's a good idea to add recommended ships larger than frigates for solo/small gang roaming, though. Those tend to be nano ships. I'd point to Omen Navy Issue, Oracle (T2 pulse lasers are a must for both, I think WHC has fits that I'd go with for both), Osprey Navy Issue (like a Caracal but better), Orthrus as examples. I tend to be more interested in fleet doctrines so this is a little bit outside the area where I know most.

Taylor Moon's mention that if dual-prop is a priority, Thorax is a better choice than Omen is correct. That doctrine is specifically a dual-prop Thorax doctrine which works very well in Low-Sec engagements. It's a well-known doctrine which has been around for years. I wouldn't use those fits for kitchen sink or small gang roaming, but once you have the numbers to fill out a proper fleet, that's the first doctrine that I'd go for in Low-Sec (and my favorite T1 cruiser doctrine overall). I've seen more variation in the Celestis fit than anywhere else in the doctrine (mainly in what's in the high slots that gives it a secondary anti-tackle/anti-drone role: LSC forum has RLML, UniWiki has smartbombs, Pandemic Horde Inc. corp fittings version has LML).

I'm not a fan of the other doctrine. Taylor Moon is correct that it's based on RR Dominix (in fact, it does include Dominix as well as Armageddon). Spider tanking is a thing, but it generally doesn't work as well in the current meta as dedicated logi ships and dedicated damage ships, on top of the fact that both drone ships and battleships tend not to do very well in PVP situations nowadays, outside of niche situations that generally require ships which cost more than I would be comfortable with if I was responsible for Uni SRP. LSC's neighbors the UNF have used Armageddon fleets to defend their structures (although the armor timer fight that I joined them in a few days ago was Harbingers, to make it easier to work with the Villore Accords fleet that they got as backup), but the fit is focused on capacitor warfare entirely, without and cap-chaining or remote repairs. They bring dedicated logi with them instead. I would go with a Bhaalgorn instead (the cheapest of all faction battleships because of how many people farm Delve) because it has stronger neuting power and can be fit with bonused turrets while not being that much more expensive. I just don't think that a battleship doctrine is worth dealing with until LSC takes off a bit more. Even recognizing the reasons why E-Uni generally encourages its members to avoid using capital ships, it's probably better to arrange capital support for a fleet of T2 or faction cruisers or battlecruisers (I'd suggest something other than the long-range alpha HAC fleets that dominate the big Null meta, they don't necessarily work as well with the numbers that LSC is likely to have or the ranges of Low-Sec engagements).

While the drawbacks of battleships are such that the hulls which tend to be viable as fleet doctrines are almost always faction battleships (Machariels, in particular), if I was to go with a T1 battleship doctrine, it would be something like NSC's Maelstrom doctrine, to focus on high alpha damage.

This was the result of the only time that I know of that doctrine ever being undocked (also the only time that I remember BLAP Vexors being used, which was something like the second fleet that I was ever in). When I asked Urban about it a while later in LSC Slack after I had moved over there, he said something to the effect of "mistakes were made, FAX was dropped."

https://zkillboard.com/related/30045353/201905210100/

If LSC needs to form up a more expensive fleet than Thoraxes, the go-to doctrine should be something much cheaper than a battleship fleet. E-Uni uses the same Ferox fit that basically everyone in Null uses, but the numbers and range of Low-Sec engagements mean that I wouldn't really use that in Low-Sec. Autocannon Hurricanes would be my first pick (with one advantage being that they use most of the same support ships as Ferox and Caracal fleets, such as Ospreys), with Harbinger, Brutix, and artillery Hurricane all also being worth consideration. And if going beyond that, HACs and faction cruisers/battlecruisers are similar price to T1 battleships fully fit, but more versatile and can be used effectively with a lower SP investment than it takes to use battleships effectively. Hurricane Fleet Issue, Gila, Sacrilege, Drekavac, BNI, HNI are all reasonable candidates that see some amount of use. I've had the idea to run dual-prop Deimos/Vigilant with T2 logi in the same way that the Thorax doctrine, but I've never seen this actually implemented.

Shauny, feel free to discuss this with me further.
Former E-Uni FC (LSC/WHC).

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Gergoran Moussou
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Re: LSC Fits

Post by Gergoran Moussou »

Just thought of something else.

Stealth bombers are great for third-partying on big fights if you find them.

Like this fight in Vey a couple of weeks ago that I was in, a great target to third-party on: https://zkillboard.com/related/30003790/202003130100/

Uni SRP page only covers Null and J-Space with bomber base SRP, but there's no reason not to use them in Low-Sec. Low-Sec disallows the use of bomb launchers, but that's nowhere near a deal-breaker. Bombs aren't nearly as important as torpedoes (focused voids are very useful at neuting out the capacitor that keeps a capital ship's tank functioning, but I've never been in a situation to use damage bombs) and the bomb launcher blooms the ship's signature radius in addition to using up fitting space, so a ship with an online bomb launcher is easier to kill.

Most of the situations in which I've flown bombers have been in Null, but I have used them in Low-Sec and they're great overall as a third-party ship for going into an ongoing fight. For specific fits, I'd start by stealing the Bombers Bar Habakuk fits since those are specifically designed for Low-Sec.

With the specific example fight that I gave as a potential target, it was over a structure grid. Considering the neutrality policy, I recognize that the corp tends to be very reluctant to participate in such fights. However, I don't see why there would be an issue with third-partying. Obviously coming to explicitly side with the WANGS/GalMil or the mixed anti-Pen Is Out fleet (a few CalMil, CalMil's largest alliance is in Rekking Crew and their main FC brought a fleet that I was in up from Rekking Crew staging, a lot of the other defenders have ties to GalMil, I can't think of any real unifying factor besides that they all have some dispute with WANGS) would be out of the question. However, that's not nearly the same thing as showing up to an ongoing fight and getting a few kills in (while I can't imagine many situations where it would be a good idea for E-Uni to be someone's batphone, it's probably a good idea to relax the structure rules in general while keeping neutrality as an important consideration since the main way that actual fights occur is over structures, since structures are one of the main ways that fights occur and I don't think that the neutrality policy should strictly prohibit hitting structures to get a fight on the armor timer or something the way that it has generally been understood, but rather that people should be very careful when doing that).

Bombers Bar Habakuk fleets tend to target gatecamps, so that's obviously a good use case as well. If someone can tackle a carrier running L5 missions, this is the main sort of ship that I'd suggest that the initial person ping LSC Slack for as backup.
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Re: LSC Fits

Post by Gergoran Moussou »

Heavy interdiction cruisers are an important ship for Low-Sec but I don't think there's a need to put up an official fit because it would be hard to use them without breaking neutrality.

Since warp interdiction bubbles don't work in Low-Sec, the only practical way to tackle a supercapital ship is with a HIC's scripted point (or a lot of regular points) because of their inherent warp core bonus. This makes them more useful in Low-Sec than in Null, but because E-Uni doesn't really have the firepower to take down a Nyx or Hel, the most that I could reasonably expect LSC to do would be bait out someone dropping a Hel, tackle it, light a cyno for a few dreadnoughts, and maybe one or two of the dreadnoughts might be from LSC or NSC but it would require working with some other group which has a few dreadnoughts. While neither LSC nor NSC should actively seek to avoid using capital ships if members of one campus or the other are interested in using them (throwing them around recklessly in such a way that the campuses might draw excessive attention and people trying to bait them out should be discouraged, though), I can't imagine this particular use being remotely neutral, especially considering which alliances drop supers in Low-Sec and which alliances have enough capital ships staged in the area to be worth calling as backup.

Other uses for HIC as heavy tackle can be done reasonably well enough with a much cheaper ship, since nothing else has the same sort of massive warp core bonus as supercapitals, so shouldn't need an infinite-strength point like what a scripted WDFG functions as. One particularly nice target, the deep space transport, has an inherent bonus, but it's much lower and a standard-fit interceptor with both a long point and a scram is able to keep it tackled until backup arrives.
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