So I am going off some ideas I found off Reddit, but I'm not entirely sure how well they work. This is also a crash course on armor tanking for me, so I might be totally out of the ballpark here.
179k ehp overheating with current skills in PyFA. The msot most promising fit. Spoiler
[Impel, Tanky]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Shadow Serpentis Armor EM Hardener
Damage Control II
800mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
400mm Steel Plates II
Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermal Hardener
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
[Empty Med slot]
Improved Cloaking Device II
[Empty High slot]
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
This next fit I find a bit more dubious but it is an interesting idea. Using warp speed to outrun a roam. 6.16AU Spoiler
[Impel, speedy tank]
Experimental Hyperspatial Accelerator
Experimental Hyperspatial Accelerator
Experimental Hyperspatial Accelerator
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Thermal Hardener II
Warp Core Stabilizer I
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Medium Micro Jump Drive
Improved Cloaking Device II
[Empty High slot]
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Lastly this is another I came across but it is 17% over on CPU, I'm not sure the fitting can be salvaged... It also used the cloak trick with a MJD instead of a MWD, is that even a thing? Anyway... Spoiler
[Impel, Wormhole]
Warp Core Stabilizer I
400mm Steel Plates II
IFFA Compact Damage Control
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Shadow Serpentis Energized EM Membrane
Shadow Serpentis Energized Thermal Membrane
Medium Micro Jump Drive
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Core Probe Launcher I
Improved Cloaking Device II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Ha, that missing mid slot, I also wonder what to use it for. Dampeners don't help due to long lock times. Adaptive invul? Otherwise an interesting fit. I use occator+mastodon, and prefer to bank on the cloak/mwd method in most space, with scouting and/or tacticals to try to dodge bubbles in null. I adapted my fit for impel, 108k/77k ehp vs omni, 11s align: Spoiler
[Impel, Impel cloaky]
Damage Control II
Dark Blood Armor Kinetic Hardener
Inertial Stabilizers II
Inertial Stabilizers II
Inertial Stabilizers II
Shadow Serpentis Armor EM Hardener
Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermal Hardener
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Improved Cloaking Device II
Festival Launcher, Snowball CXIV
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Update: Turns out I was wrong or that things have changed over the years.
Did some further testing and with the Caldari Navy Cloak you still need at least one inertia stabilizer to do the MWD+cloak trick, two if you fit a plate. With two inertia stabilizers you don't need the faction cloak at all, unless you fit a plate.
So while the conclusion that active fits are probably the best choice for utilizing the ship's bonus, the actual numbers of the fits I initially gave are obviously not achievable if you want the MWD+cloak trick to work, you'd have to drop one or two hardeners for inertia mods.
First, I'd recommend investing in a Caldari Navy Cloaking Device because with a normal one you'll not be able to do the MWD-cloak trick perfectly with plates, it'll work, but you'll be decloaked just for a wee bit before hitting warp. But the faction cloak has a lower penalty which bridges this gap and allows for perfect MWD-cloaking for ~35 mil, without requiring you to go plateless or fit agility mods so you're left with access to every single low-slot for tank or utility. Second, considering the Deep Space Transports innate bonuses are geared towards overheating bonuses, I wanted to compare a passive fit to an active one and if there's a mixed version that would do as well. I also did a quick check to see if hull-tanking was viable, but it just fell short of even the lowest passive-armour fit, so dismissed it right away.
Module choices and why:
[list][*]Caldari Navy Cloaking Device - See above, removes any issues with not being able to warp immediately after the MWD-cycle ends. This can be achieved by using a fancier MWD too, but they tend to cost a lot more than the navy cloak.
[*]Imperial Navy 800mm Steel Plates - A very cheap upgrade to increase armour for a very low cost.
[*]Faction Hardeners - Cheap alternative to reduce CPU usage, just make sure you pick the ones with the same resists as the T2 module and look at all the available factions because some are cheaper than others (and this fluctuates over time).
[*]Empty midslot - I left it empty because I'm torn between what to put in there, because some of these options are either highly situational or drastically impacts your fitting options for more important things:[list]
[*]Microjumpdrive - It would only help against warp disrupters as a warp scrambler would shut this down as well as the MD, at which point you could just burn with your MWD. Maybe it'll have situational use.
[*]Sensor Booster - With an ECCM-script you increase your sensor strength to make you less easily scanned down, but would you cloak up if you didn't want to be found, making this a moot point?
[*]Afterburner - Another situational option would be an AB to get some speed to burn back to the gate even if you're warp scrambled.
[*]Cap Battery - A Thukker Small Cap Battery to give you a few more seconds before someone neuts you out, due to the neut resistance bonus you get from it, not from the small capacitor capacity increase.[/list][/list]
Here are some rudimentary fits for testing (not claiming they are optimised or perfect in any way, shape or form):
[code][Impel, Transport (passive)]
Imperial Navy 800mm Steel Plates
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Energized EM Membrane
True Sansha Energized Kinetic Membrane
Dark Blood Energized Thermal Membrane
Dark Blood Energized Thermal Membrane
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
[Empty Med slot]
Caldari Navy Cloaking Device
[Empty High slot]
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II[/code][code][Impel, Transport (active)]
Imperial Navy 800mm Steel Plates
Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermal Hardener
Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermal Hardener
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Shadow Serpentis Armor EM Hardener
Shadow Serpentis Armor EM Hardener
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
[Empty Med slot]
Caldari Navy Cloaking Device
[Empty High slot]
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II[/code][code][Impel, Transport (mixed)]
Imperial Navy 800mm Steel Plates
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Dark Blood Armor Kinetic Hardener
Dark Blood Armor Explosive Hardener
Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermal Hardener
Shadow Serpentis Armor EM Hardener
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
[Empty Med slot]
Caldari Navy Cloaking Device
[Empty High slot]
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II[/code]So to sum it up, here's the comparison between the fits:
Passive - 131k ehp with no overheating abilities for increased tank (estimated fitting cost of 231 million ISK). Active - 49k ehp base, 131k hardeners on, 279k overheating (estimated fitting cost of 129 million ISK). Mixed - 74.4k ehp base, 133k hardeners on, 247k overheating (estimated fitting cost of 133 million ISK).
This also scales with fitting budget for the active/mixed fits (the passive fit isn't cost effective to bling), as you can get enough increased survivability to warrant the extra cost. Upgrading the hardeners to Deadspace X-Types (both fits) and swapping the membranes to one C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane and one A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating (for the mixed fit, plating due to CPU constraints), you get the following:
Active (deadspace) - 49k ehp base, 172k hardeners on, 735k ehp overheating (estimated fitting cost of 853 million ISK). Mixed (deadspace) - 82.9k ehp base, 177k hardeners on, 582k ehp overheating (estimated fitting cost of 909 million ISK).
If you have need for increased warp speed and drop the Trimark-rigs for Hyperspatial-rigs, it would have some drastic reductions in tank (roughly 30% loss since shield and hull ehp aren't impacted):
Passive - From 131k ehp down to 94.8k ehp. Active - From 279k ehp overheated down to 210k ehp. Active (deadspace) - From 735k ehp overheated down to 515k ehp. Mixed - From 247k ehp overheated down to 175k ehp. Mixed (deadspace) - From 582k ehp overheated down to 408k ehp.
Last edited by Cassiel Seraphim on 2019.08.30 21:18, edited 1 time in total.
you can't really do a Cloak & MJD trick - you can start it but you will be decloaked after half of the MJD spool-up time... which leaves plenty of time to lock and scram you...
Titus Empire wrote:It also used the cloak trick with a MJD instead of a MWD, is that even a thing? Anyway...
Zoltan Irvam wrote:Hi,
you can't really do a Cloak & MJD trick - you can start it but you will be decloaked after half of the MJD spool-up time... which leaves plenty of time to lock and scram you...
Zoltan
It's not there to replace the MWD in the MWD-cloak trick, but rather as a supplemental "try to get away if you're warp disrupted" module, as you'd microjump far enough away to break the disruptor and then try to get off grid again before they catch up to you.
well, one of the original fits had just AB and MJD along with a T2 cloak - for whatever reasons. Of course having an MJD as a safety measure when cloak & MWD fails makes sense...
Had a discussion on WHC-slack this evening and it turns out I was wrong or things have changed, so the navy cloak is no longer a cheap "fix" for the MWD+cloak trick, you need at least one inertia stab or two if you fit a plate. Updated my post accordingly.
