Occator

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Athena Firefly

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Post 2019.01.11 21:33

Re: Occator

I should add that all the fits I linked come recommended from the people in the Hauler's Channel - which is from where I got them in the first place. :D
I haven't flown these fits myself, but I always got the impression they know what they're talking about. ^_^

Oh, and another thing; align time really doesn't matter, since you'll be using the "MWD+cloak-trick" to warp off in 1 MWD cycle anyway. ;)
~~~ I am a leaf on the wind - watch how I soar! ~~~



Teaching Assistant Manager | Fittings Staff | ex NSC Hangar Officer

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Ann'Dra Padecain

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Post 2019.01.12 05:05

Re: Occator

I think align-time is equal or closely related to the time to reach max velocity.
Since you warp at 75% of max velocity this would mean that align-time is the most important factor to determine if the cloak & MWD trick can work at all. I.e. one MWD-cycle may not be enough to reach warp-speed.
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Zoltan Irvam

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Post 2019.01.12 07:35

Re: Occator

Ann'Dra Padecain wrote:I think align-time is equal or closely related to the time to reach max velocity.
Since you warp at 75% of max velocity this would mean that align-time is the most important factor to determine if the cloak & MWD trick can work at all. I.e. one MWD-cycle may not be enough to reach warp-speed.


Thank you, it seems somebody understands it... unlike a T1 hauler, a DST is not so easy to get to be able to use cloak and MWD... And I'm still searching for a working Orca fit which can do it.

Zoltan
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Zoltan Irvam

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Post 2019.01.12 08:07

Re: Occator

Athena Firefly wrote:I should add that all the fits I linked come recommended from the people in the Hauler's Channel - which is from where I got them in the first place. :D
I haven't flown these fits myself, but I always got the impression they know what they're talking about. ^_^

Oh, and another thing; align time really doesn't matter, since you'll be using the "MWD+cloak-trick" to warp off in 1 MWD cycle anyway. ;)


Hi,

the one who showed the Lowsec fit with Istabs and Hyperspatials did know what he was talking about - but as you might have noticed if you had a closer look at the fit in Pyfa or ingame fitting tool, that fit has even less EHP than mine...

You have to balance the Ganknadoes at Jita dockoff against Code at the Perimeter Gates or in Uedama.
At the gates you want a well working cloak & MWD trick, which most of the fits shown in this thread don't offer. At Jita dockoff you need enough EHP to survive a Ganknado or two shooting you in the second before you're off to your instadock bookmark when you collide with some other ship at dockoff - which happens sometimes, non-intentional because the freighter is so fat and chooses to align right from dockoff or on purpose by some friend of the ganknado pilots flying a ship across the dockoff to bump and give them the time window needed to get off a volley.

For that you need those EHP with hardeners off, because you will not have had time to get 6 hardeners turned on, let alone heated before an instalock Ganknado with pre-activated guns has put a volley into you. Or is there a way to activate your whole tank with one click that I missed (and yes, I know about pre-heating a whole rack - which won't help if you haven't activated them).

Having a few hundred thousand EHP with heat is not helpful in my use case as it will only prolong the agony if you fumbled the cloak and MWD trick at a gate and got caught... which I managed to avoid up to now and don't really fit for.

Zoltan
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Hirmuolio Pine

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Post 2019.01.12 15:29

Re: Occator

I don't think ganknados are of any threat to tanked DSTs. A single tornado will apply ~11k damage in a volley (t2 ammo, all V). So a 100k EHP fit would be killed by 10x tornados hitting at once. With the slow cycling of artillery you would need to go AFK to not be able to dock back before the next hit comes.

I think you can pre-heat during undock invuln.
You can activate whole rack by pressing F1-F6 at once. I guess that could be easy to fumble with as many hardeners as six. All the modules should activate on same tick and you become targeted on the next tick.

Aligning on undock is the right thing to do if you think you can take alpha hit.
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Cassiel Seraphim

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Post 2019.01.13 13:03

Re: Occator

Ann'Dra Padecain wrote:I think align-time is equal or closely related to the time to reach max velocity.
Since you warp at 75% of max velocity this would mean that align-time is the most important factor to determine if the cloak & MWD trick can work at all. I.e. one MWD-cycle may not be enough to reach warp-speed.
The formula for acceleration (and deceleration) is in part affected by mass multiplied by inertia, or simply ship agility for short (practically inertia reductions and agility bonuses are interchangeable as they have the same effect and the game often refers to ship agility as an inertia reduction).

Ann'Dra is right that reducing inertia or improving a ship's agility, will not only affect align time in general, but all aspects of it, including both turning speed and pure acceleration/deceleration as well.

Zoltan Irvam wrote:And I'm still searching for a working Orca fit which can do it.
I haven't done it, but I don't doubt people who say it's possible, since we got many modules, rigs and implants by which we can reduce inertia or increase the effectiveness of the MWD burst. Those two aspects will be key to making the Orca do the MWD + cloak trick. Below are a few things that do this, on top of my head.

  • Inertia stabilizers in the low (increases acceleration due to lower inertia).
  • A navy cloaking device (increases the effective thrust of the MWD due to lower speed penalty).
  • Low Friction Nozzle Joints rigs (increase acceleration due to lower inertia).
  • Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' Evasive Maneuvering EM-70X implants (increases acceleration due to increased ship agility).
  • Zor's Custom Navigation Hyper-Link (slot 8) and Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' Acceleration Control AC-60X implants (increases the effective thrust of the MWD).
  • For non-Orca fits, there's also the option to use deadspace MWDs with better thrust bonuses, but that's not available for the Orca due to powergrid restraints.
  • The Higgs rig also lowers inertia to counter the mass increase giving the ship better align times ... but when you combine the Higgs rig with other inertia modifiers it quickly diminishes and ends up increasing your align time after a few stacked modules (two serpentis inertia stabs or two normal + one low friction nozzle joints rig).

If I'm missing a potential modifier, feel free to correct me :)

Since I haven't done this for the Orca specifically (just some of the Deep Space Transports) I don't know exactly how far you need to push it. But I'll make an educated guess that simply using stabilizers (even shadow serpentis ones) and a navy cloak isn't going to cut it. My educated guess is that you'll need to add rigs and/or implants as well to reach the breaking point. Where that is, I'm not sure, maybe around 20s align time or slightly higher if you use multiple implants boosting the effectiveness of the MWD burst.

Either way you'll lose at least a hundred thousand ehp (more if you were using transversal rigs) making you a little more vulnerable in those instances where you cannot use the MWD + cloak trick to stop yourself from being locked (like undocking from a station). I suppose you could reduce that risk by having the appropriate insta-undock bookmarks at any and all stations you visit or resort to only docking at Citadels where you can safely align while being tethered etc.
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Zoltan Irvam

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Post 2019.01.13 22:48

Re: Occator

Hi Cassiel,

thanks for the insight - there is indeed one more rig which helps with cloak and MWD... the Engine Thermal Shielding. It increases the propmod activation time at the cost of armour (which we don't care much about on an Orca) and thus we reach a higher speed at the end of the longer cycle.

I have put the Orca fit with it in the correct thread... I'll see if I can give the Occator more EHP with it...

Zoltan
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