Muninn

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Azrael Feanorian

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Post 2018.05.22 10:20

Muninn

Greetings,
here we go with the Muninn HAC.

Currently Wiki Published Fits:

Muninn: Shield Muninn
SPOILER WARNING!
[Muninn, Shield Muninn]

Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Shield Extender II
50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Explosive Deflection Amplifier II

720mm Howitzer Artillery II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hornet EC-300 x5


Republic Fleet EMP M x1


Internal NOTES:
- we lost the Smart Bomb (-1 High slot)
- I used the extra Mid slot to add some Explosive resistance (added something like 3K EHP) (any other use is welcome)

NOTES for the Wiki:
With all skills at V, this Muninn moves at 2162 m/s (3087 with heat), does 488 dps with 26.9km optimal and 30.8km falloff, and has 39.9k EHP (with Uniform Damage Pattern). Volley damage is 3629.



Muninn: PvP Medium range
SPOILER WARNING!
[Muninn, PvP Medium range]

Damage Control II
800mm Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Explosive Membrane II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II
[Empty Med slot]

650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Projectile Burst Aerator I


Hobgoblin II x5


Republic Fleet EMP M x1
Optimal Range Script x2
Tracking Speed Script x2


Internal NOTES:
- Lost the Auto Target in the High slot
- We do have a FREE MID SLOT. I'm not familiar with a PVP Muninn what do you suggest to add?
- ATM: 20.7km optimal. 442 dps + 99 drones (2497 volley). 30.8k EHP. 13.8 dps passive recharge. 2044m/s (cold). Stable 42%.

NOTES for the Wiki:
- TBD
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Raido Kudonen

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Post 2018.05.22 12:13

Re: Muninn

So, first off, HACs should never undock without the Assault Damage Control.

Shield Muninns have been pretty much totally figured out at this point. Two extenders to somehow get your buffer to the point where a Ferox FC staring angrily at you isn't lethal, enough TEs to get your arty range out to adequate levels, otherwise DPS.

SPOILER WARNING!
[Muninn, cookie cutter]

Assault Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Mark I Compact Power Diagnostic System
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II


Acolyte II x5


Armor Muninns aren't really a thing, for a lot of reasons. The biggest one is that the Minmatar T2 resist profile is just terrible for armor tanking - you get huge bonuses to EM/thermal, which armor already naturally tanks, and nothing for kinetic/explosive, which are the natural resist holes for armor. (This is the same thing that makes Minmatar T2 shield resists really really good.) The Muninn also suffers, in its armor configuration, from severe DPS shortfalls; you pretty much need gyros to do good damage with arty, and medium ACs are garbage, so your ability to do good DPS trades off with your need to fix gaping resist holes.

One of our FCs tried very hard to bring back armor Muninns, and when we last talked about it, we converged on something like this as a complement to old-school AHAC Zealots. However, I don't think we ever really used them. A cursory look at zkill will show that we use shield Ishtars and shield Muninns for our alliance HAC fleets, those or Eagles for my corp's fleets, and our allies up north use MWD armor Ishtars.

SPOILER WARNING!
[Muninn, does this really work at all?]

1600mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Shadow Serpentis Armor Kinetic Hardener
Shadow Serpentis Armor Explosive Hardener
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Assault Damage Control II

10MN Afterburner II
Tracking Disruptor II, Tracking Speed Disruption Script
Tracking Disruptor II, Tracking Speed Disruption Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
"What is good in life, Raido?"
"To crush your enemies. To see them bubbled before you, and to hear the lamentations of their carebears."

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Budda Sereda

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Post 2018.05.23 10:26

Re: Muninn

I was honestly surprised to see the even resist profile and 220k EHP is decent. DPS is just 400 with drones, but what about adding Gyro instead of one of resist modules? Losing 30k EHP sounds too much, but it raises DPS up to 462.
And why Tracking Disruptors? For an AB fit, I would expect Dampeners...?Or it should be refit based on the expected type of engagement?

What about fit for Solo PvP, I know it is also not very popular, but ... if one will want to come up with a troll fit It could bring some fights due to general disrespect to Muninn?
Something like this:
SPOILER WARNING!
[Muninn, MWD AC MAAR - Solo Brawler]

Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Assault Damage Control II
Energized Explosive Membrane II
Energized Kinetic Membrane II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I


Warrior II x5


P.S. OMG, Sleipnir now is only 60M more expensive than Muninn... Inflation...
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Raido Kudonen

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Post 2018.05.23 11:50

Re: Muninn

Budda Sereda wrote:I was honestly surprised to see the even resist profile and 220k EHP is decent. DPS is just 400 with drones, but what about adding Gyro instead of one of resist modules? Losing 30k EHP sounds too much, but it raises DPS up to 462.
And why Tracking Disruptors? For an AB fit, I would expect Dampeners...?Or it should be refit based on the expected type of engagement?


Muninn EHP is about 15% lower than Zealot EHP, which starts to really stack up with ADC and links. And Zealots aren't even good. You can swap the gyro in for an EANM, but the Zealot EHP I just gave is with three heat sinks so...

Ideally, you'd mix Muninns and Zealots together, and somehow figure out a way for them to not be hard countered by having battleship-sized utility neuts.

You refit ewar based on engagement, but historically AHACs and similar doctrines have relied heavily on TDs. They're meant to hard counter battleship fleets due to battleships' poor tracking, and one of the reasons AHACs are bad now is that CCP nerfed sig links hard when command bursts were implemented. These days, the TDs are helpful because they make Feroxes cry.

Budda Sereda wrote:What about fit for Solo PvP, I know it is also not very popular, but ... if one will want to come up with a troll fit It could bring some fights due to general disrespect to Muninn?
Something like this:
SPOILER WARNING!
[Muninn, MWD AC MAAR - Solo Brawler]

Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Assault Damage Control II
Energized Explosive Membrane II
Energized Kinetic Membrane II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I


Warrior II x5


P.S. OMG, Sleipnir now is only 60M more expensive than Muninn... Inflation...


There are lots of bad things about that fit, but I'll focus on the facts that 1) you shouldn't T1 rig HACs, and for solo you shouldn't T2 fit them either; 2) MAAR isn't enough tank for a brawling fit, ever; you need dual reps just to be relevant; 3) you'd lose to basically any other solo fit HAC because of this and the bad DPS. Even a Vagabond.
"What is good in life, Raido?"
"To crush your enemies. To see them bubbled before you, and to hear the lamentations of their carebears."

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Tal Tracyn

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Post 2018.06.04 13:24

Re: Muninn

Heres mine.... i really miss the extra high slot.
SPOILER WARNING!
[Muninn, 3FIDDY]

Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Medium Armor Repairer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Warp Scrambler II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800
10MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II

425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II


Warrior II x5
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