[Meta] Topic Rules Discussion

[Budda Sereda]

Subj. Feel free to post you comment or concerns regarding Rules - please read before post

[Flack Keikira]

I have a question about rule 6) Aim for High Fitting Skills. As a not-particularly-experienced player, a thing I really appreciate is when there's a low skill fit that I can poke at. Otherwise I don't really know what to meta down in order to still have a viable fit. A common workflow is that I downgrade the T2 with elements from a T1 fit if I'm close to fitting, or upgrade the T1 fit with T2 elements that I have trained into.

If the T1 fit has unfittible elements, I basically always assume that I shouldn't even think about that ship - and I don't think that's always the right assumption. It would be really useful if a lot of fits that are meant to be adaptable had at least one "don't even bother unless..." fit as a starting point. I don't know if I ever would have become an explorer, which really why I'm still in Eve, if the "Solitude Exploration Basic" Heron fitting hadn't been a listed fitting.

Notes are good: I think if the notes gave unambiguous instructions on how to downgrade fittings to BLAP/almost-dont-even-bother levels this criticism would go away.

(I appreciate the work y'all are doing here and I know I haven't been a part of it previously so I don't get as much of a say.)

[Budda Sereda]

What makes EVE great - is its variety: there are millions fits combinations that shine in one case and completely suck in a different one.
It is not possible to fit all fits (:)) into a single wiki page so we need to accept some limitations.

I do realize, it is hard to be a good theorycrafter and come up with a good idea on how to downgrade modules to fly particular fit.
But please do trust me: it is even much harder to upgrade fit and consume all available "fitting room".

Is fit adaptable or not? You can't always answer immediately, you do need to install Pyfa try. What? You still have neither Pyfa nor EVE Droid installed? Seriously? Ok, I survived without Pyfa for 1.5 months... and gave up. Pretty interesting game on its own.

And if we decide to downgrade: how far to downgrade? Up to the point that alpha character can fly? Or that day-1 pilot can? In first case fit still won't meet expectations of a complete newbro and won't show the PROPER variant for more experienced player who is either trying something new or looking for a fit for his fleet.

No, we want to post GOOD fits which pilot should aim to train to.

I will be more than happy to help downgrading any particular fit or adding notes into one which is hard to downgrade. Feel free to post in an appropriate topic.

[Flack Keikira]

I think, given that we are in the Uni, there's a pretty good answer for this: there are a couple of day-1-alpha ships (which should probably have specifically listed day-1-alpha fittings rather than notes). For all other T1 ships, the target is what a BLAP pilot can fly, possibly by training additional skills to III, and if those skills mean don't bother, say that too. That's what BLAP *means* - train this if you want to be able to fly ships in a basic manner in the Uni.

If that makes sense, I'm training a BLAP-only alt and can use him to try and work on developing recommendatins.

[Budda Sereda]

I think, given that we are in the Uni, there's a pretty good answer for this: there are a couple of day-1-alpha ships (which should probably have specifically listed day-1-alpha fittings rather than notes).

The fact that we are in the Uni does not mean wiki is focused at our needs, instead, wiki's purpose is to help the whole EVE community.
Yes we are a training corp, and we chose to train by giving PROPER fits, not day 1.

For all other T1 ships, the target is what a BLAP pilot can fly, possibly by training additional skills to III, and if those skills mean don't bother, say that too. That's what BLAP *means* - train this if you want to be able to fly ships in a basic manner in the Uni.

If that makes sense, I'm training a BLAP-only alt and can use him to try and work on developing recommendations.

TBH, I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. But I will share few related thoughts.
Who knows about BLAP program outside of E-Uni? It is E-Uni specific program with specific and till some extent, limited purpose. And because of that, we are not going to advertise BLAP fits on generic hull articles, doctrines do have separate wiki pages.

If you train BLAP program you will ONLY be capable flying BLAP ships, it won't help you to fly such a great ship as Omen, Stiletto or Atron, neither Thrasher nor Stabber.

[Flack Keikira]

This was a really helpful response, thank you. I was thinking of the wiki as a resource for the Uni but you're right to see it more as a resource for all of Eve.

I still think that a single recommended downgrade to At-Most-III skills, when that's still a workable ship, is quite valuable to keep in mind for adding to notes. The resource being created now will likely prevent some (hopefully small) subset of newbies from ever undocking in fun ships they'd love because they don't have the fitting skills yet. (And seriously, not everyone in Eve's gonna use Pyfa.) However, I'm becoming more aware that that's realistically another big project - especially because there's no set notion of "basic" skills - and just updating the fittings is already a big project.

[JohnPlayerNotSpecial]

I still think that a single recommended downgrade to At-Most-III skills, when that's still a workable ship, is quite valuable to keep in mind for adding to notes.

Going to quote the man himself (from a different thread):

- made it t2 (even newbros should learn how to downgrade)

You dont need to become a pyfa warrior, the ingame "simulate fit" is adequate enough for that purpose.