Keres

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White 0rchid

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Post 2017.09.12 09:14

Keres

Basic fleet nano fitting. Keres aren't cap stable but this fulfills a lot of the roles you need a Keres for over an inty - long tackle and able to damp dangerous things out. They are not easy ships to fly.

SPOILER WARNING!
[Keres, Fleet Nano]

Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Warp Disruptor II
5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Ionic Field Projector II
Small Particle Dispersion Projector II


Acolyte II x2


Nanite Repair Paste x60
Scan Resolution Dampening Script x2
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.09.29 00:47

Re: Keres

What is the value of SAAR if it has an only 20s cap? Repair while sitting at SAFE? Why not fit armor or shield buffer instead?

I don't see a use case for this fleet. Could you please describe?
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Biwako Acami

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Post 2017.10.03 12:04

Re: Keres

This seems to be one of the more common ways to fit a Keres (SAAR in 34.8% of last 2000 Keres losses). I assume thematically with longer targeting range and bonus to optimal range on damps the Keres fends for itself outside Logi range and possibly hoping for grazing hits from long range ships.

Running 2 Damps and MWD is cap stable at all 5s. The SAAR only needs to be cycled when needed. You can run all 3 and MWD if you meta the damps to scoped but I think losing range hurts the intent of the fitting.

Edit: The most common fit tends to favor fitting autocannons in the highs with leftover fitting resources. I'm guessing as a counter measure against drones.
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.10.04 02:24

Re: Keres

Thanks, added ACs.
Comments also make sense...
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2018.05.27 06:19

Re: Keres

I'd like to add fits for small (hull size-wise) fleets:

Shield:
SPOILER WARNING!
[Keres, MWD Shield Scram+Point - Spectre's]

Damage Control II
Overdrive Injector System II
Capacitor Power Relay II

5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Scrambler II
Warp Disruptor II

75mm Carbide Railgun I
[Empty High slot]

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Core Defense Field Extender II


Warrior II x2


Nanite Repair Paste x25


Armor - used by Spectre Fleet:
SPOILER WARNING!
[Keres, MWD ArmorBuff - Armor Pain Train Keres]

Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates

5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Scan Resolution Dampening Script
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

75mm Gatling Rail II, Spike S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Javelin S

Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I


Spike S x1000
Javelin S x1000
Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S x1000
Scan Resolution Script x1
Targeting Range Dampening Script x2

Question though. From what I see, people rarely fit scram on Keres. Why though? Can be good for defensive purposes as well as for denying opponents ceptors. Keres not that quick, but has decent chance to catch opponent if he makes a mistake. With that I'd like to offer changes to currently posted nano fit:
SPOILER WARNING!
[Keres, MWD Point SAAR - Nano Gang with scram]

Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Warp Scrambler II
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening Script

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S

Small Ionic Field Projector II
Small Particle Dispersion Projector II


Acolyte II x2


Nanite Repair Paste x60
Scan Resolution Dampening Script x2


Thoughts?
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Raido Kudonen

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Post 2018.05.27 15:45

Re: Keres

Budda Sereda wrote:I'd like to add fits for small (hull size-wise) fleets:

Armor - used by Spectre Fleet:
SPOILER WARNING!
[Keres, MWD ArmorBuff - Armor Pain Train Keres]

Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates

5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Scan Resolution Dampening Script
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

75mm Gatling Rail II, Spike S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Javelin S

Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I


Spike S x1000
Javelin S x1000
Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S x1000
Scan Resolution Script x1
Targeting Range Dampening Script x2


What type of gang is this used with? Confessors often have utility damps and use ABs, so there's no reason to have an MWD damps platform with bad tank with the fleet. (An AB Keres with better tank, a scram, and a point might be useful - fit below.) Armor AFs use MWDs, but their optimal is inside unbonused point range and so they don't need a bonused point.

SPOILER WARNING!
[Keres, 1mn confessor support]

400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Damage Control II
Dark Blood Adaptive Nano Plating

1MN Afterburner II
Warp Disruptor II
Warp Disruptor II
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Scan Resolution Dampening Script
Warp Scrambler II

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Anti-Explosive Pump II


Budda Sereda wrote:Question though. From what I see, people rarely fit scram on Keres. Why though? Can be good for defensive purposes as well as for denying opponents ceptors. Keres not that quick, but has decent chance to catch opponent if he makes a mistake. With that I'd like to offer changes to currently posted nano fit:


There are a number of reasons. They all boil down to this, though: the absolute longest range you can get out of a Keres scram (TS scram + links + heat) is 28.8km, and it will usually be much shorter because you don't usually want to spend 120m on a single mod for a T2 frigate. Let's go through normal use cases for the Keres:

1) Small gang damps. A small gang Keres within 30km of bad guys is dead. Hard pass.

2) Screening/long point for a shield-tanked mid-size fleet w/ logi and a reasonably long engagement range. (Jackdaws and rail Harpies come to mind as good examples.) Two problems here. First, you have limited mids with a shield tank, so the opportunity cost for fitting a scram is high. Second, the defensive scram offers very little compared to a Keres long point + a Hyena web, and the latter reach out to 48km (t2 Hyena web) or much longer (bling Hyena web). Save the mid slot for something good.

3) Screening/long point for an armor-tanked mid-size fleet w/ logi. Here, the scram can be useful for countering hostile booshers and such, and you have extra mids in your fleet (for utility damps) and on your Keres (for bonused tackle). Here, a scram can be good, although you probably don't want more than one. Of course, the caveat applies that most small-ship armor fleet concepts only hit out to about 20-25km, so you don't need a Keres point anyway and you might be better off with an extra DPS ship or an extra ceptor.
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Glasi Vookto

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Post 2018.05.28 10:38

Re: Keres

The Keres fit on the wiki is a bit too thin. The more commonly used fit in small gangs has a plate on it:
SPOILER WARNING!
[Keres, Keres - gang]

Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
200mm Crystalline Carbonide Restrained Plates

Warp Disruptor II
LFT Enduring Sensor Dampener, Targeting Range Dampening Script
LFT Enduring Sensor Dampener, Targeting Range Dampening Script
LFT Enduring Sensor Dampener, Targeting Range Dampening Script
5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Particle Dispersion Projector II
Small Ionic Field Projector II


Hornet EC-300 x2


The plate allows you to hold grid longer and is more forgiving if you take burst damage. It makes you slower, but being at the rear of the gang means you can afford it. You can T2 the damps for more effectiveness but lose cap life.

If you want more speed or if you have shield logi, there is a shield version which drops the point for an MSE. Pretty common fit too:

SPOILER WARNING!
[Keres, Keres - shield]

Damage Control II
Signal Amplifier II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Medium Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender
5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Particle Dispersion Projector II
Small Particle Dispersion Projector II


Hornet EC-300 x2
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Yrgrasil

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Post 2018.05.28 11:13

Re: Keres

Glasi Vookto wrote:The Keres fit on the wiki is a bit too thin. The more commonly used fit in small gangs has a plate on it:
SPOILER WARNING!
[Keres, Keres - gang]

Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
200mm Crystalline Carbonide Restrained Plates

Warp Disruptor II
LFT Enduring Sensor Dampener, Targeting Range Dampening Script
LFT Enduring Sensor Dampener, Targeting Range Dampening Script
LFT Enduring Sensor Dampener, Targeting Range Dampening Script
5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Particle Dispersion Projector II
Small Ionic Field Projector II


Hornet EC-300 x2


The plate allows you to hold grid longer and is more forgiving if you take burst damage. It makes you slower, but being at the rear of the gang means you can afford it. You can T2 the damps for more effectiveness but lose cap life.

...


mh, i would consider to use a Imperial Navy 200mm Steel Plate here, with ~6m its really cheap and brings additional ~10% EHP. Additionally since it fits it could make sense to attach two 150mm Projectile to have a little Drone Screening available i guess. (would need a 1% PG implant with the imperial plate)

looks like this in the end
SPOILER WARNING!
[Keres, Keres - gang]

Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy 200mm Steel Plates

Warp Disruptor II
LFT Enduring Sensor Dampener
LFT Enduring Sensor Dampener
LFT Enduring Sensor Dampener
5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S

Small Particle Dispersion Projector II
Small Ionic Field Projector II


Hornet EC-300 x2


Barrage S x640
Republic Fleet EMP S x640
Republic Fleet Fusion S x640
Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S x640
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Power Grid Management EG-601 x1
Nanite Repair Paste x80
Synth Mindflood Booster x2
Scan Resolution Dampening Script x3
Targeting Range Dampening Script x3
<<

Glasi Vookto

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Post 2018.05.28 13:45

Re: Keres

You can pimp it how you like, although I found it best to keep reference fits as t1 and t2 without any implants.
The most common pimp on the Keres is a faction point, blue MWD and eventually storyline damps for cap stability, but such a fit takes you up to 250-300M.
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Yrgrasil

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Post 2018.05.28 14:16

Re: Keres

Glasi Vookto wrote:You can pimp it how you like, although I found it best to keep reference fits as t1 and t2 without any implants.
The most common pimp on the Keres is a faction point, blue MWD and eventually storyline damps for cap stability, but such a fit takes you up to 250-300M.


well yeah, i wouldn't consider this as pimp but actually i think you're right, it doesn't need a implant with the regular plate. Still the question about the guns, if they make sense or not. Since they don't use cap i think its worth to have them actually, but actually probably already something else went wrong if you get to the point were you need them.

Regarding to the Shield Keres, this seems somehow odd for me. Actually you get a Maulus with nearly the same stats for a fraction of the costs. Well you don't get a shield version then which would be a reason to do it like this, but still it seems like throwing out isk since only half of the ship is used in this case.
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Glasi Vookto

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Post 2018.05.28 15:42

Re: Keres

Guns are a waste of isk on a Keres. You can put an auto-targeter on it if you'd like.

You can't make a shield Maulus unfortunately. Shield Keres is a valid choice if you have shield logi or need to go very fast. In most gangs the primary role of the Keres is to provide damps, the long point is only secondary.

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