osprye

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Taylor Moon Mahyisti

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Post 2020.03.17 04:23

osprye

the osprey fitting on the wiki all suck, here is better one

SPOILER WARNING!
[Osprey, ***one large rep AB]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Signal Amplifier II

10MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Sensor Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Inductive Compact Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Inductive Compact Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II



Hornet II x4

Targeting Range Script x1
Scan Resolution Script x1
Nanite Repair Paste x50
ECCM Script x1
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Biwako Acami

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Post 2020.03.17 04:53

Re: osprye

Ospreys tend to be part of a larger fleet since they're kind of reliant on having partner ospreys to ET with. They are fit as per the rest of the fleet unless you're flying some niche solo or small fleet logi fit.

I can see the fits there haven't been touched in a while but any changes to fleet based fits should be inline with rest of the doctrine fitting. There are very limited ways you can change osprey fits. They don't suck (redundant maybe) but they could be updated for the tiericide changes.
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Taylor Moon Mahyisti

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Post 2020.03.17 04:55

Re: osprye

well i mean theoretically as long as they're cap chain compatible with each other and have similar speeds/range it's fine. but you're right, the whole fleet should probably use mine
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Gergoran Moussou

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Post 2020.03.17 08:57

Re: osprye

While many fits on the wiki do need an update, pointing to a ship's listed fittings and saying "they all suck" isn't really a good start to a productive conversation about that.

I'd like to know why this fit has an afterburner. Ospreys are fleet support ships, they can never be anything other than fleet support ships. While they are essential, they need to be fit based around how the fleet's main ship is fit, particularly based around mobility. The support ships' propulsion modules need to always match the main ship of the doctrine (there might be an exception with Sansha ships, but they are expensive enough that T1 logi should not be used with them). What shield afterburner doctrines are in use? I can see Moas or Ruptures being AB, but Caracals are vastly more common than them.

I fly in AB Gila fleets reasonably often. These are too expensive for Ospreys to be acceptable. Basilisks and Minokawas are the logi in that doctrine. AB Eagles, AB Muninns, and the like all exist, but are too expensive for T1 logi to be acceptable.
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Taylor Moon Mahyisti

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Post 2020.03.17 09:10

Re: osprye

Gergoran Moussou wrote:While many fits on the wiki do need an update, pointing to a ship's listed fittings and saying "they all suck" isn't really a good start to a productive conversation about that.


it's true though

Gergoran Moussou wrote:The support ships' propulsion modules need to always match the main ship of the doctrine


i cant agree with that. ive been in quite a lot of fleets with mwd dps and ab logi. shield reps have quite a long optimal before they start to fall off and even after that they dont decrease that much for a long distance.

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you've got about a 50km sphere around your logi anchor that you can manouvre in without losing noticeable repping power, within that area you can mwd around no problem. it's true that if you need to chase stuff further than that you'll end up being limited by your logi ab speed if you want to keep repping power, but how often does that really end up happening anyway? you can always just boosh your logi, or have logi warp to a tac and align to you ready to warp.

Gergoran Moussou wrote:What shield afterburner doctrines are in use? I can see Moas or Ruptures being AB, but Caracals are vastly more common than them.


caracals are truly awful ships if you're not fighting frigates. i know e-uni likes to use them a lot but 203 dps after reloads is incredibly bad, and the t1 is even worse. i would never ever use this ship unless various better things were deleted from the game

anyway, more to the point, i really dont think the wiki should base its fittings on what the fotm doctrines are at the moment. if it was updated very frequently then maybe, but it really really isnt. just have an ab and mwd osprey fit in there.

These are too expensive for Ospreys to be acceptable. Basilisks and Minokawas are the logi in that doctrine. AB Eagles, AB Muninns, and the like all exist, but are too expensive for T1 logi to be acceptable.


ok, so why have osprey fits at all with that logic. i hardly see any t1 cruiser doctrines.
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Drebin 679

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Post 2020.03.20 08:22

Re: osprye

tl;dr The wiki actually used to have a fit like the one you've suggested, but was removed for whatever reason. I see no problem with adding something like it (with T1 rigs probably).

To note, there is already a thread on the Osprey in the archived fittings threads (https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 0&t=109218), and we are supposed to keep fit discussion to one thread. But given that this thread has traction, that there's no fittings staff now, and that I can't do it myself, eh, whatever.

So, to inform the discussion better, the current fits that are on the wiki page, with notation for rep & cap transfer count as well as prop:

Wiki Page Fits

AB (3/2 AB)

SPOILER WARNING!
[Osprey, AB]
Medium Remote Shield Booster II
Medium Remote Shield Booster II
Medium Remote Shield Booster II
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter

10MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I

Internal Force Field Array I
Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation
Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I



[former] Fleet-Up fits

WHC 555 Rasharing (1L+2M/2 AB)

SPOILER WARNING!
[Osprey, WHC 555 Rasharing]
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster

EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
10MN Afterburner II

Co-Processor I
Mark I Compact Reactor Control Unit
Damage Control II

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Acolyte II x4


HSC Logisprey (3/2 AB)

SPOILER WARNING!
[Osprey, HSC Logisprey]
Medium Murky Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium Murky Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium Asymmetric Enduring Remote Shield Booster
Medium Asymmetric Enduring Remote Shield Booster
Medium Asymmetric Enduring Remote Shield Booster

F-90 Compact Sensor Booster
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender

Mark I Compact Power Diagnostic System
F-89 Compact Signal Amplifier
IFFA Compact Damage Control

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin I x4

Nanite Repair Paste x15
Scan Resolution Script x1


E-UNI BLAP Osprey (3/2 MWD)

SPOILER WARNING!
[Osprey, E-UNI BLAP Osprey]
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Alumel-Wired Enduring Sensor Booster
50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender

Damage Control I
F-89 Compact Signal Amplifier
F-89 Compact Signal Amplifier

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Warrior I x1
Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x3

Targeting Range Script x1
Scan Resolution Script x1
ECCM Script x1
Nanite Repair Paste x40


NSC Reship Osprey (3/2 AB)

SPOILER WARNING!
[Osprey, NSC Reship Osprey]
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter

EM Ward Field II
10MN Afterburner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

F-89 Compact Signal Amplifier
F-89 Compact Signal Amplifier
Damage Control II

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x4


E-UNI BLAP Osprey T2 (3/2 MWD)

SPOILER WARNING!
[Osprey, E-UNI BLAP Osprey T2]
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster

Large Shield Extender II
50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Sensor Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Signal Amplifier II
Signal Amplifier II
Damage Control II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x3
Warrior II x1

Targeting Range Script x1
Scan Resolution Script x1
Nanite Repair Paste x40
ECCM Script x1


CT Osprey - MWD (4/1 MWD)

SPOILER WARNING!
[Osprey, CT Osprey - MWD]
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Cap Recharger II

Damage Control II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Light Armor Maintenance Bot II x4


PvP AB (3/2 AB)

SPOILER WARNING!
[Osprey, PvP AB]
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Medium Remote Capacitor Transmitter II

10MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery

Damage Control II
F-89 Compact Signal Amplifier
Signal Amplifier II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x4


Now, there are a lot of 3/2 AB fits stored in <wikifit> (former uni fleet-up fits that used to be synced but is now just a static backup), and while this forum isn't meant to debate internal uni doctrines per se, I can say that I do not believe I've seen AB Ospreys in regular use at HSC or NSC during my time in the Uni. There is an actual 1 large rep fit buried in there, but it does use one more fitting mod than you do, Taylor, in exchange for sneaking in scoped reps and a second AIF. Certainly tankier, but no SeBos/SigAmps does suggest this fit was meant for small enough fleets that you wouldn't have to target often and don't expect jams/damps.

In the wiki page fitting realm, there's only the AB fit. And while I haven't done the pyfa warrioring to conclusively weigh my opinion on whether it "suck[s]", I can say that it has no less than four different types of outdated module names (cap transfers, dedicated ECCM instead of SeBo, SigAmps, DC). Also lacks drones, which elicits a frown out of me.

Now, looking at past history, there was a fitting on the wiki that was very much like the one you've suggested here. 1LargeRep, added in 2015 by Sayod Physulem:

1LargeRep (1L+2M/2 AB)

SPOILER WARNING!
[Osprey, 1LargeRep]
Medium S95a Remote Shield Booster
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium S95a Remote Shield Booster
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
EM Ward Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Reactor Control Unit II
Protected Gravimetric Backup Cluster I
Damage Control II

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I


Scan Resolution Script x1


Taking post-tiericide conversions into account, the main differences are double kin rigs instead of double EM rigs, T1 rigs instead of T2, a RCU instead of a PDS, meta LSE, and meta AB instead of T2. When Yrg looked at this fit in 2018, he suggested fixing it up to basically be the same fit as yours with the exception of the LSE, and kin rigs/EM Ward instead of EM rigs/2nd AIF. He never put the suggested changes to wiki, and removed most of the fits in October 2019 due to how out of date they were. Putting both fits to parity with T1 rigs and T2 LSE and with max skills, the former gets 71/70/73/70 resists and 25.7k EHP vs. omni, while the latter gets 66/70/73/78 resists and 26.2k EHP vs. omni. While T2 rigs certainly plug the small EM hole that would exist with T1 rigs, it does increase the cost of the ship by ~33% based on current TQ price estimates (23.7M -> 34.6M) for a ~10-12% increase in EM/Th resists, I don't know how worthwhile that investment is on an Osprey. So it comes to the usual better Kin/Ex resists and omni EHP vs. smaller damage hole but less omni EHP, and I don't know where I'd stand on that.

So, to summarize all my mouth running, I think there's definitely a place for a large rep osprey again, and the fact that it fits with just one fitting module does negate the argument that it needed too many fitting mods to work that was brought up in the previous thread. Your fit works with CPU and PWG management 5, and Shield Upgrades 3, which doesn't feel awfully requiring even for an Osprey. I do concur with the points brought up that in PvP environments there doesn't seem to be a clear common doctrine partner to an AB Osprey currently (certainly not at the level of MWD RLML Caracals and Rail Feroxes). But in slowboat/AB PvE fleet environments I don't see any particularly wrong with including one. In addition, I hope the fits in <wikifit> can be opened up again soon so that some of the redundant 3/2 AB fits can be cleared out.
Incursion Coordinator, Wiki Curator

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Taylor Moon Mahyisti

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Post 2020.03.20 09:05

Re: osprye

thanks for the good insight. i did notice the 4/1 fits, the interesting thing about those is that it's the same repping power as a 1+2/2 with one large rep, since the large is worth two mediums. imo the 3/2 with the large rep is a bit better because it's a lot more cap stable, as well as having a 1up/1down cap chain rather than just 1down which is more robust against neut pressure, but either 1+2/2 with a large or 4/1 are much better compared to the plain 3/2 mediums

the large repper does also get some more range which is nice, and you can overheat some more by selectively overheating the large module for effectively double the heat efficiency, especially with it being between the two cap transfers like in mine cause they're hopefully not going to burn out. but on the other hand the 4/1 might be better for keeping low-health things like tackle alive, since you can space out the reps more, though with a few logi all repping them it probably doesnt matter too much

also the 4/1 does need a lot of cap mods to be stable with the mwd, i probably wouldnt use that fit with mwd but with ab it looks like it can be cap stable with no mods which is quite nice (if you t2 the cap transfer, which you can if you replace mwd for ab)

the good thing about 4/1 compared to the large rep 1+2/2 is that it does free up a lot of power grid, im just not really sure what to do with it. it does mean that you can go for two LSEs with no fitting mods, which would be really nice in a situation where you were worried about alpha. sadly though the sebo is a big loss, but still this could be quite a useful fit in some situations

i do also have a fit with two large reppers, this gives it great repping power with 5 effective medium reps, but cant fit any sigamps or sebos. i made this before the saviour implants came out, was gonna get some talons to help with sensor strength to hopefully get away with using this, but it's probably obsolete now. i'd just use one of the other fits with the saviours now that they're out

SPOILER WARNING!
[Osprey, two large rep AB (needs talons)]
Mark I Compact Power Diagnostic System
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II

10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II

Large Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Inductive Compact Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Inductive Compact Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I



Warrior II x4


overall the best fits are probably 1+2/2 mwd/ab and 4/1 ab, i dont really think 4/1 mwd is that good with all the cap mods needed. though this does give me an idea which is 2+2/1 ab, my guess is that it probably wouldnt work cause all the reps will eat up a lot of cap.
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Biwako Acami

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Post 2020.03.20 14:48

Re: osprye

Taylor Moon Mahyisti wrote:the large repper does also get some more range which is nice, and you can overheat some more by selectively overheating the large module for effectively double the heat efficiency, especially with it being between the two cap transfers like in mine cause they're hopefully not going to burn out.
You can't really overheat more since they're exactly the same in terms of heat generation and module hp. Since both boosters are paced similarly when overheated you just get the same linear growth but at shorter intervals. The note about slot layout applies to the medium booster as well.

The 1L+2M Booster fit listed in Fleet Up fits is an outdated PvE fit that WHC used to use hence no expectation of outside forces breaking the cap chain. We've since moved to a 3M Booster fit to accommodate a battery to withstand neuts.

At the end of the day this is a ship that belongs in a doctrine and the audience for the wiki is really someone looking to incorporate it into their doctrine.
I guess as a fittings guideline we could list generic AB and MWD fits where AB has the two variants.
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Taylor Moon Mahyisti

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Post 2020.03.20 15:29

Re: osprye

that's true but in terms of splash damage efficiency the large is twice as efficient since the benefit is twice as much for the same heat. it will damage itself the same amount like you said but damage other stuff less compared to heating two medium reps. also is the rack heating proportional to the number of heated modules? im not sure how that works exactly, sometimes it gets heated up even when i dont have any modules online which is nice
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Gergoran Moussou

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Post 2020.03.20 19:13

Re: osprye

Taylor Moon Mahyisti wrote:ok, so why have osprey fits at all with that logic. i hardly see any t1 cruiser doctrines.

Because Caracals are by far the most common T1 cruiser doctrine by a pretty wide margin. If you find people undocking a T1 cruiser fleet, the vast majority will be Caracals. Rail Moas and artillery Ruptures exist (and, depending on what prop mod they use, may or may not be a situation for AB Ospreys). For smaller fleets, Stabbers are fairly common, but they're a bit different from other cruisers, so I'd call for frigate logi with them. Blaster Thoraxes are also a fairly good doctrine, but they're flown with Exequerors.

For planned fleet engagements, battlecruisers are a bit more common than cruisers. The most common T1 battlecruiser doctrine is Ferox, with Hurricane being the second-most common. Both typically get flown with Ospreys (but Ferox/Basilisk fleets aren't uncommon, especially if they bring T2 support ships like Huginns). That's the other place where you would see Ospreys (Naga, HFI, and DNI fleets are again too expensive for T1 logi).
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Taylor Moon Mahyisti

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Post 2020.03.20 22:03

Re: osprye

Gergoran Moussou wrote:Because Caracals are by far the most common T1 cruiser doctrine by a pretty wide margin. If you find people undocking a T1 cruiser fleet, the vast majority will be Caracals.


i would like to see your source for that, i have hardly ever seen caracal fleets in lowsec on account of how awful they are against anything that isn't a frigate. also, why couldnt you fit caracals with an ab if you wanted to? seems like it would be ok due to their pretty good range

Gergoran Moussou wrote:For planned fleet engagements, battlecruisers are a bit more common than cruisers.


well that really depends. in wormholes that's not true, it's t3c and hac territory. i also see quite a lot of cruisers in low

Gergoran Moussou wrote:The most common T1 battlecruiser doctrine is Ferox, with Hurricane being the second-most common.


i would tend to agree with that. they are mostly fit with ab and rails/arty, arent they? seems perfect for ab ospreys
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