Scythe

<<

Narthe Raytei

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.05.07 09:06

Scythe

Currently the Wiki only has a single non-fleet up fit that is an AB PvE Support Scythe: Aside from the fact it's using intergrated hammerheads instead of T2 this fit works for it's intended purpose. Maybe the lack of T2 could be upgraded but it's already a fairly tight fit. Though it should probably be renamed "PvE Solo Support" to keep it's purpose clear.

SPOILER WARNING!
[Scythe, Scythe - Solo Support Stable]
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster

10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
P-S Compact Remote Tracking Computer
Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Medium Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery

Damage Control II
Co-Processor II
Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil
Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil
Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Acolyte II x5
'Integrated' Hammerhead x2


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The a very common way of fitting the scythe for pvp is using an MWD. There are quite a few different ways of doing this with varying amounts of rechargers, relays, batteries or Cap Control rigs. Here is an example of one.

SPOILER WARNING!
[Scythe, PvP MwD]

Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Power Diagnostic System II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Sensor Booster II

Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Light Shield Maintenance Bot II x5
Light Shield Maintenance Bot II x3
Warrior II x1


Standard Mindflood Booster x1
Targeting Range Script x1
Scan Resolution Script x1
ECCM Script x1


There is also an AB style fit that is more aimed at solo logi setups with a personal tank. AB would be used here constantly and has the added benefit of being able to ignore scramming tackle and reduce ship sig radius, but this comes at the cost of overall speed.

SPOILER WARNING!
[Scythe, PvP Afterburner]

Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Co-Processor II
Damage Control II

10MN Afterburner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 150
Cap Recharger II
Sensor Booster II

Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Warrior II x1
Light Shield Maintenance Bot II x5
Light Shield Maintenance Bot II x3


Standard Mindflood Booster x1
Targeting Range Script x1
Scan Resolution Script x1
Navy Cap Booster 150 x42
ECCM Script x1


These fits have been altered and updated. Refer to the posts below.
Last edited by Narthe Raytei on 2018.05.09 16:35, edited 1 time in total.
"The music does not play the musician." Daniel Jackson - Stargate SG1

Nothing to see here
<<

Yrgrasil

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.05.07 09:54

Re: Scythe

Both PvP fits lack actually a lot of EHP in my opinion, also the Mindflood for the AB Variant seems to be an odd choice since it has an Local Large Ancillary, probably a Blue Pill would be more helpful since its already capstable. I just assume you don't want to go out without a SeBo, else i could provide some ideas?

Same for the Drones actually, its seems its more common to use 5/4x Light Damage Drones, 4/5x Light Repair (often armor since the ship bonus isn't locked) or 4 Medium, 1 Light Repair.
<<

Narthe Raytei

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.05.07 10:56

Re: Scythe

It's difficult to increase EHP whilst maintaining Cap stability. I'd maintain that the EHP of the two fits are sufficient due to the fact that they're always meant to be out at 25-30km range of a kiting fleet which puts them even further than the opposing side meaning they should be avoiding a fair amount of the damage. However, as you said, dropping the sebo would make it easier to get them higher but having a defence against ewar can make the difference between no reps and some reps.
Though your comment about the mindflood on the AB one actually makes sense; might be better to have either or both and use to the occasion in-case of neuts rather than dps or vice versa.

I had put in the single damage drone initially as just a getting on the kill drone.
There are a few ways of putting drones in the scythe, damage, full rep, lights, mix etc. It heavily depends on the situation you're flying in.
Might be worth having 4 mediums and 1 damage drone as a solid middle ground and then having a note detailing further drone options.

Though i'd disagree on using armour bots since if you're repping a shield ship it's more likely that the ship you're repping has better shield resists than armour that will make your effective repping much more powerful.
"The music does not play the musician." Daniel Jackson - Stargate SG1

Nothing to see here
<<

Yrgrasil

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.05.07 11:21

Re: Scythe

Narthe Raytei wrote:It's difficult to increase EHP whilst maintaining Cap stability. I'd maintain that the EHP of the two fits are sufficient due to the fact that they're always meant to be out at 25-30km range of a kiting fleet which puts them even further than the opposing side meaning they should be avoiding a fair amount of the damage. However, as you said, dropping the sebo would make it easier to get them higher but having a defence against ewar can make the difference between no reps and some reps.

Yeah i had the discussion lastly in FCC about the BLAP Osprey and don't really want to discuss it anymore in the Uni, thats why i asked about the SeBo, i can just say with a single Scythe in a Smallgang its common that this one will get all damage as soon as it got catched, and mostly thats the target which has the highest priority after or even with the tackle.

Narthe Raytei wrote:I had put in the single damage drone initially as just a getting on the kill drone.
There are a few ways of putting drones in the scythe, damage, full rep, lights, mix etc. It heavily depends on the situation you're flying in.
Might be worth having 4 mediums and 1 damage drone as a solid middle ground and then having a note detailing further drone options.

It was more about what is common, but armor drones help if you're far away from home without the option to repair on station during a roam. Warriors are default and a additional help to scare off tackle, ecm would also work.

Narthe Raytei wrote:Though i'd disagree on using armour bots since if you're repping a shield ship it's more likely that the ship you're repping has better shield resists than armour that will make your effective repping much more powerful.

yes, my personal preference is also to use shield drones actually, but i go more an more to the above mentioned setup.
<<

Budda Sereda

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.05.09 02:28

Re: Scythe

Yrgrasil wrote:Both PvP fits lack actually a lot of EHP in my opinion, also the Mindflood for the AB Variant seems to be an odd choice since it has an Local Large Ancillary, probably a Blue Pill would be more helpful since its already capstable. I just assume you don't want to go out without a SeBo, else i could provide some ideas?

Same for the Drones actually, its seems its more common to use 5/4x Light Damage Drones, 4/5x Light Repair (often armor since the ship bonus isn't locked) or 4 Medium, 1 Light Repair.

Those are T1 ships, and 20k everage EHP is expected. Even if you take T2 logies, they can only have twice more with overall more than 10 times cost.
EHP is not only criteria, especially for the shield fit (which catches reps much quicker than armor).

Armor drones: 1 - yes, agree, it helps to get reps after the fight and get some extra buffer if your armor is damaged. But please never rep armor during the fight in a shield fit comp.

Damage drone: no guys, you can put 1 drone to get into kill mail, but... not 4. Logies are for reps, who cares about 30 additional DPS, especially from drones that need to travel?

Killmails: Good logy pilots don't care about the color of their killboard. If you are DD who flies logy to help fleet... accept this fleet you won't have any killmail. I know it is hard, we all are greedy but show me any pilot with DD drones who never landed reps on opponents or shot a fleet mate...

BTW: I 'heard' CCP is going to implement a feature that allows logies getting into kill mails. Not sure how true is that, though.
<<

Yrgrasil

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.05.09 12:41

Re: Scythe

Budda Sereda wrote:
Yrgrasil wrote:Both PvP fits lack actually a lot of EHP in my opinion, also the Mindflood for the AB Variant seems to be an odd choice since it has an Local Large Ancillary, probably a Blue Pill would be more helpful since its already capstable. I just assume you don't want to go out without a SeBo, else i could provide some ideas?

Same for the Drones actually, its seems its more common to use 5/4x Light Damage Drones, 4/5x Light Repair (often armor since the ship bonus isn't locked) or 4 Medium, 1 Light Repair.

Those are T1 ships, and 20k everage EHP is expected. Even if you take T2 logies, they can only have twice more with overall more than 10 times cost.
EHP is not only criteria, especially for the shield fit (which catches reps much quicker than armor).

Armor drones: 1 - yes, agree, it helps to get reps after the fight and get some extra buffer if your armor is damaged. But please never rep armor during the fight in a shield fit comp.

Damage drone: no guys, you can put 1 drone to get into kill mail, but... not 4. Logies are for reps, who cares about 30 additional DPS, especially from drones that need to travel?

Killmails: Good logy pilots don't care about the color of their killboard. If you are DD who flies logy to help fleet... accept this fleet you won't have any killmail. I know it is hard, we all are greedy but show me any pilot with DD drones who never landed reps on opponents or shot a fleet mate...

BTW: I 'heard' CCP is going to implement a feature that allows logies getting into kill mails. Not sure how true is that, though.


it would actual be helpful if you would pyfa these fits before you start argumenting with imaginary values, well 16.2k EHP for the PvP MWD is probably near the 20k average you're talking about, but 4 Drones do 64.4 DPS with Warriors (even 80.4 with five of them). And these 64-80 DPS can actually help to threat Interceptors and other Tackle which comes to close.

This "use one single drone" to get on killmails is probably one of the dumbest thing i've ever heard, either you go with a full stack of lights/ecm to help against tackle, or you go full Reps and this would be 4M/1L Repair in the case of the scythe. Both can be useful and depends probably mostly on the rest of the comp/situation. It can even make sense to use armor drones during a fight, for example if you've a malediction in your shield comp, which is actually not that unusual.

Of course there could be some other examples for useful drone constellations, but i would say that this "one drone" is nothing which should be promoted by our wiki.
<<

K950

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.05.09 14:15

Re: Scythe

That PvE Support Scythe fit is mine, so I'll answer for it.

Only the "Meta 4" fit is shown, I prefer to use this:

  Code:
[Scythe, Scythe - Shield AB 3M Solo Support PvE +]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil
Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil
Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil
Co-Processor II

10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
P-S Compact Remote Tracking Computer
Domination Large Shield Booster
Medium Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery

Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x5
Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x4


The Domination Large Shield Booster isn't that expensive -- nobody will use it in PvP anyways because it doesn't rep hard enough for that. But for PvE it is great because it has the repping power of the Tech II (which won't fit) yet the fitting and capacitor requirements of the Meta 4. Drones are for self-defense against EWAR frigates in missions. Swapping the remote tracking link for a passive hardener allows this vessel to do well even in nullsec combat sites.

The Ship Saver Osprey has a similar setup and concept but relies more on a short-term setup.

Moving on, the Scythe itself is possible to make self-rep for PvP but such is highly unadvisable: the Exequror is superior for a solo hero logi vessel with local reps. You can make a Scythe capstable even with a chargeless LASB but the tank is unremarkable and you're better off with buffer every time: the only self-tank shield cruiser that works is the Scimitar, most likely the 100MN solo logi fit which is not for new players. The defining factors for both the Osprey and the Scythe come down to these primary factors:

1) How many LSEs you have
2) Prop mod choice
3) Whether you have sensor boosters and/or sigamps for ECM resistance

Doctrine Scythes vary a bit for those reasons above. Not everybody has Shield Upgrades V -- it's safe to assume people won't have it (it's really nice to have).

Afterburner, two LSEs, no ECM resistance. Shield drones if FC calls for it, or if doctrine calls for it, or if you prefer them. If you want more ECM resistance, swap the Anti-Thermal rig to a Anti-EM, drop the DCU for a sigamp and swap the EM Ward Amp to a sebo.
  Code:
[Scythe, Scythe - Shield AB 3M 34k EHP]

Mark I Compact Capacitor Power Relay
Mark I Compact Capacitor Power Relay
Mark I Compact Capacitor Power Relay
Capacitor Power Relay II
Damage Control II

10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II

Medium Asymmetric Enduring Remote Shield Booster
Medium Asymmetric Enduring Remote Shield Booster
Medium Asymmetric Enduring Remote Shield Booster

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I x4
Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x1


MWD, single LSE, sebo. Drones to as doctrine taste or as you prefer. Swapping the CDFEs to hyperspatials allows you to mostly keep up with frigate and destroyer gangs: if you put in a 2% warp speed implant you'll match destroyer warp speeds. A Scythe is significantly more powerful than a solo logi frigate or two and can support someone with okay tank against gate guns.
[Scythe, Scythe - Shield MWD 3M 1x LSE Sebo]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
F-90 Compact Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script
Cap Recharger II

Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Acolyte II x5
Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x4


MWD, two LSEs, no sebo. Drones to taste.
  Code:
[Scythe, Scythe - Shield MWD 3M 2x LSE SU4]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Power Diagnostic System II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Upgraded EM Ward Amplifier I

Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x3
Medium Shield Maintenance Bot I x3


Nanite Repair Paste x50
<<

Narthe Raytei

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.05.09 16:31

Re: Scythe

You're not meant to rep interceptors during a fight; they should be able to warp off grid and return to remove aggro, there are more important things that need repping usually; not to mention the fact that interceptors are so squishy that if they manage to get caught by something they're likely dead anyway.

The Self-rep scythe with the ASB is specifically designed to be flown solo. If it were buffer it would die and have no chance of doing anything so it needs some rep. The ASB is a way of removing cap pressure from yourself. It works well and i have flown it myself in pvp situations. The idea is that you aren't meant to be anywhere near the bad guys and you position yourself on the other side of the field with your fleet inbetween you and them.

Another thing to be aware of is that when you have an MWD scythe it HAS to be cap stable running the MWD. If it doesn't it's going to be caught and provide nothing to the fleet. It has to be moving around at all times.
Also you should never be fitting hyperspatials to a scythe. If you're having problems keeping up either the fleet isn't waiting for you or you should be flying a frigate logi. The frigate logi, on paper, might be have worse stats than the scythe, but it's speed, sig and agility is what makes it better than a scythe in a frigate fleet. However that's off topic.

Generally, a scythe would never be fit with an afterburner. If anything i'd say that the AB scythe shouldn't be included in the basic uni fits as it's very specialised.

I'd say the two main scythe fits should be one without the ECM resistance; and one with. Both T2 because we should assume these are the best these fits can be, anyone who can't fit them should then be made aware of where to meta for their skills.

Some updates to the fits i posted above would be:

PvP MWD
SPOILER WARNING!
[Scythe, PvP MWD]

Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Cap Recharger II

Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x4
Acolyte II x5


PvP MWD ECM Resistance
SPOILER WARNING!
[Scythe, PvP MWD ECMres]

Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Sensor Booster II, ECCM Script

Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x4
Acolyte II x5


Drones for these would again be picked for purpose. 4M+1L rep drones / 5L Damage drones + Spares. There are reasons for both. I'd still personally say that armour drones aren't as useful but that's my opinion.
"The music does not play the musician." Daniel Jackson - Stargate SG1

Nothing to see here
<<

Yrgrasil

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.05.09 16:51

Re: Scythe

these look more solid in my eyes actually, can't find really something to complain about. Now an solid Nano Fit would be lovely... :D

Since narthe said it already with the AB Variants, something i really want to test in the next time is this dualprop nano one, but i actually assume its a pain to fly it in the beginning. Also Booster, not everyone likes them. And yeah, too specialized i guess.

SPOILER WARNING!
[Scythe, Scythe --DP]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Medium Asymmetric Enduring Remote Shield Booster
Medium Asymmetric Enduring Remote Shield Booster
Medium Asymmetric Enduring Remote Shield Booster

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Warrior II x5
Light Armor Maintenance Bot II x4


Standard Mindflood Booster x1
<<

Narthe Raytei

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.05.09 17:59

Re: Scythe

This is the best thing i could come up with that is nano centric (notice the lack of nano xD) The thing is already super agile so i've just tried to increase the speed of the hull. In the end it loses tank in exchange for the extra speed, however i'm not even sure it's worth it as it's already super fast.

SPOILER WARNING!
[Scythe, Nano]

Overdrive Injector System II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II

Medium S95a Scoped Remote Shield Booster
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I


Medium Shield Maintenance Bot II x4
Light Shield Maintenance Bot II x1
"The music does not play the musician." Daniel Jackson - Stargate SG1

Nothing to see here
<<

K950

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.05.10 03:42

Re: Scythe

When a gang is out and about, the tackle and command destroyers are somewhat essential to the operational success of a fleet: without good interceptor pilots on field, your crew is less capable than one with such ships on hand. Additionally, when a Stiletto gets tackle on a ship and is low on shield from Warrior IIs and fresh off a scram pass, would you hardly agree that just a few seconds of reps as your gang shows up to ensure his survival could hardly hurt?

Of course, in a larger fight, once the fight is actually underway, then yes tackle interceptors are expected to fend for themselves. However if I'm in a logi ship and come on grid with the blob I will provide reps to the key tackle pilots and tackle group as time and situation permits -- 1 DPS ship with 140k ehp can wait a little bit. Having flown logistics a handful of times I know people don't broadcast - but if a ceptor pilot does broadcast and nobody else does -- well, someone is going to get reps. I can actually recall a situation where I got tackle on an Onyx awhile back (the grid was going all haywire, so we chose to evac) and got HIC scrammed with the old HIC scram, then ate RLML fire. Pffft okay -- broadcast for reps, got them, and was able to survive. Nobody else was really getting shot at much -- so I don't buy the notion that tackle pilots shouldn't get reps just because "you're a interceptor pilot, fend for yourself".

The self-rep Scythe does have some merit. It also has less EHP than the buffer version and will still die the same to a nicely fit destroyer with 440 dps which will blow right through those ASB reps. Unlike the Hero Exequror which can tank almost 500 DPS (without Exile) the Scythe has an extremely hard time fitting an ASB properly. The day when you can fit a LSE + XLASB Scythe will be joyous day.

The Hyperspatial Scythe didn't have problems keeping up with a frigate gang. You just have to pay sharp attention to what is going on and you'll be fine, anticipate FC orders ahead of time and it works fine. The problem with frigate logi is the T1 frigate logi doesn't really rep enough to make itself useful in a solo operation (i.e. NOP fleets), is slow, agility is worse than a cruiser, can't even tank gate guns and is anemic. The only ones worth it are T2 logi frigates with T2 reppers (ideally Pithi A-Type remotes) - and those are more expensive than the cruiser. I know for a fact that the Burst with 1 medium rep and 2 smalls can't help someone else tank gate guns -- it'll work for a bit, but it will falter. There's a reason those guys that camp the Vil Gate in OMS don't use frigate logi :)

[Scythe, Scythe - Shield AB 3M LSE+LASB]

Co-Processor II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
IFFA Compact Damage Control

10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 150
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Eutectic Compact Cap Recharger

Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster
Medium Murky Compact Remote Shield Booster

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Medium Shield Maintenance Bot I x3
Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x2
Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x1


Standard Mindflood Booster x1
Navy Cap Booster 150 x36


I can't make it work with a MWD. Too many fitting mods and chronic problems with PG.
<<

Narthe Raytei

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.05.11 13:36

Re: Scythe

K950 wrote:When a gang is out and about, the tackle and command destroyers are somewhat essential to the operational success of a fleet: without good interceptor pilots on field, your crew is less capable than one with such ships on hand. Additionally, when a Stiletto gets tackle on a ship and is low on shield from Warrior IIs and fresh off a scram pass, would you hardly agree that just a few seconds of reps as your gang shows up to ensure his survival could hardly hurt?

Of course, in a larger fight, once the fight is actually underway, then yes tackle interceptors are expected to fend for themselves. However if I'm in a logi ship and come on grid with the blob I will provide reps to the key tackle pilots and tackle group as time and situation permits -- 1 DPS ship with 140k ehp can wait a little bit. Having flown logistics a handful of times I know people don't broadcast - but if a ceptor pilot does broadcast and nobody else does -- well, someone is going to get reps. I can actually recall a situation where I got tackle on an Onyx awhile back (the grid was going all haywire, so we chose to evac) and got HIC scrammed with the old HIC scram, then ate RLML fire. Pffft okay -- broadcast for reps, got them, and was able to survive. Nobody else was really getting shot at much -- so I don't buy the notion that tackle pilots shouldn't get reps just because "you're a interceptor pilot, fend for yourself".

Incorrect. Interceptors warp off while hard tackle lands. Your reps would be better placed elsewhere.
150k ehp? You're with battleships? You're saying those battleships wont have cruiser support with tackle to replace interceptors that warp off?
Why are you talking about repping an onyx when you were talking about interceptors before??

All of this is Irrelevant to the fitting discussion please keep feedback on the fits and on topic.

K950 wrote:The self-rep Scythe does have some merit. It also has less EHP than the buffer version and will still die the same to a nicely fit destroyer with 440 dps which will blow right through those ASB reps. Unlike the Hero Exequror which can tank almost 500 DPS (without Exile) the Scythe has an extremely hard time fitting an ASB properly. The day when you can fit a LSE + XLASB Scythe will be joyous day.

Comparing two different ships isn't the point of this thread. Keep it on topic of discussing the best way of fitting the scythe.

K950 wrote:The Hyperspatial Scythe didn't have problems keeping up with a frigate gang. You just have to pay sharp attention to what is going on and you'll be fine, anticipate FC orders ahead of time and it works fine. The problem with frigate logi is the T1 frigate logi doesn't really rep enough to make itself useful in a solo operation (i.e. NOP fleets), is slow, agility is worse than a cruiser, can't even tank gate guns and is anemic. The only ones worth it are T2 logi frigates with T2 reppers (ideally Pithi A-Type remotes) - and those are more expensive than the cruiser. I know for a fact that the Burst with 1 medium rep and 2 smalls can't help someone else tank gate guns -- it'll work for a bit, but it will falter. There's a reason those guys that camp the Vil Gate in OMS don't use frigate logi :)

I can't make it work with a MWD. Too many fitting mods and chronic problems with PG.

Again, a hyperspatial scythe is a bad fit. You're wasting a rig that should be used on tank. You're comparing a cruiser logi to a frigate logi and saying the frigate is worse..... of course it is, but you're unfairly comparing them. Frigate logi are commonly used in bunches, not solo. They're also not slow in the slightest, it's likely that the fits you're looking at are incorrectly fit.
Also the reason that people on a gate camp don't use frigate logi is because they're not roaming. Frigate logi are a roaming thing.



TLDR: This whole comment is off topic. Stop comparing the Scythe to other ships and debating on whether the Scythe is good or not. We're discussing which scythe fits are good and common and how they can be improved and why.


Budda Sereda wrote:3. Stick to typical use-cases
Please stick to the most commonly used fits, avoid using specialized, niche fits. There is a myriad way of fitting each ship, though we publish only most common or those that are principally different from each other. If fits can use different modules and serve the same role, just put another module in cargo and put description that explains when to refit to any particular module
"The music does not play the musician." Daniel Jackson - Stargate SG1

Nothing to see here
<<

K950

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.05.12 05:50

Re: Scythe

It seems we have a difference of opinion, and that you are fairly convinced on your point of view.

From there we can only move on to other things.
<<

Budda Sereda

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.05.13 02:51

Re: Scythe

Yes, let's focus discussing the single hull, comparison please in other forums, here for instance.

Posted 2 PvP MWD fits (tanky and ECCM), Nano, and PvE.

Thanks!

P.S.
Scythes are supposed to fly with shield comp, repairing armor can be only needed if logies can't hold shield. And if they can't hold shield (which supposed to have the highest resist), there are not much value of repairing armor.
Also, even though Scythe can have some DPS (even 60-80 rather than 30-ish which I wrote originally), extra EHP from drones is quite solid as well: 48HP/s, which you can multiply by resists...
Hence, only 1 armor drone and no dd drones in fits I've posted. Instead of 4 medium optionally we can fit 5 light shield maintenance + 5 ECM... put this into notices.

Return to Released Fittings Archive

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Powered by Dediserve