Pontifex

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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.04.17 00:00

Pontifex

Pontifex has a single fit in fleet-up for boosing:

  Code:
[Pontifex, WHCa - Combat]
Damage Control II
400mm Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Centum C-Type Energized Thermal Membrane

Micro Jump Field Generator
5MN Microwarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II

125mm Light Prototype Automatic Cannon
125mm Light Prototype Automatic Cannon
125mm Light Prototype Automatic Cannon
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I

Small Trimark Armor Pump II
Small Trimark Armor Pump II

Hobgoblin II x5
Acolyte II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5


But nothing for boosting... I do need a fit, so would be also good to discuss it here. Will post my version in few hours...
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.04.17 00:58

Re: Pontifex

Interestingly, there is a fit from K950:

  Code:
[Pontifex, Pontifex - Armor Buffer 2 Link 400mm]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Corpii A-Type EM Plating
Corpii A-Type Thermal Plating
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler
Micro Jump Field Generator
5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive

Information Command Burst II, Electronic Superiority Charge
Armor Command Burst II, Armor Energizing Charge
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S

Small Trimark Armor Pump II
Small Command Processor I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Warrior II x5


https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... t=pontifex

What do you guys think about it? The only concern is going over CPU, so needs an implant. Maybe replace Scram with Initiated Compact one? Also replace Armor Pump by Anti-Kinetic Pump to close the Kinetic whole, trade off is only 1.1k EHP.

  Code:
[Pontifex, Pontifex - Armor Buffer 2 Link 400mm]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Corpii A-Type EM Plating
Corpii A-Type Thermal Plating
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Initiated Compact Warp Scrambler
Micro Jump Field Generator
5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive

Information Command Burst II, Electronic Superiority Charge
Armor Command Burst II, Armor Energizing Charge
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S

Small Anti-Kinetic Pump II
Small Command Processor I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Warrior II x5
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Kerodan Alduin

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Post 2017.04.17 16:59

Re: Pontifex

With command destroyers, I'm wondering whether it makes sense to have dual-purpose fits (i.e., MJFG + command bursts). It probably does, when using tactics to jump the friendly fleet, but probably not much so if the CD is used to jump enemy ships off the hole (lets call that tactic "aggressive jumping"), as the command burst range is in the order of 25km.

I came up with a dual purpose fit (MJFG, single CB) by swapping the MWD for an AB, which I prefer anyway because I tend to overshoot with the MWD:

SPOILER WARNING!
[Pontifex, Dual purpose]

Damage Control II
400mm Steel Plates II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Centum C-Type Energized Thermal Membrane

Micro Jump Field Generator
1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Warp Disruptor II

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Armor Command Burst II
Core Probe Launcher II

Small Trimark Armor Pump II
Small Trimark Armor Pump II


Hobgoblin II x5
Acolyte II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5


I have a similarly fit Magus with a web in the extra midslot, but lacking the Damage Control and therefore some tank.

For a two burst booster I would leave out the MJFG and try to maximize the tank (which already suffers from sacrificing one trimark):

SPOILER WARNING!
[Pontifex, Dual boost]

Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Thermal Plating II
400mm Steel Plates II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Initiated Compact Warp Disruptor
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

Armor Command Burst II
Skirmish Command Burst II
125mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I
125mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I
Core Probe Launcher II /OFFLINE

Small Trimark Armor Pump II
Small Command Processor I


The probe launcher is offlined and used only to help get the fleet out if stuck.

For aggressive jumping, I somewhat prefer the Stork, as its shield tank can regenerate and it is a bit faster than the armor ships. Also, aggressive jumping, by definition, means being out of repping range, anyway. As an armor ship for aggressive jumping, I still prefer the Magus for its extra midslot, meaning that it can fit an extra web in addition to a point, propmod and MJFG. Also, the Magus has a bit more drone DPS because of its larger bandwidth. An aggressive jumper should, in my opinion, be able to take down its prey, so more DPS would be favorable in that case.
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.04.19 04:00

Re: Pontifex

Dunno, for me combining disruptor with AB does not sound reasonable: disruptor assumes kiting range, AB won't work well kiting...

Replacing resist rig by bigger buffer: Pump gives 1k EHP which is not too much, while another resist rig helps to raise overall resist and survivability. CD with 2 links MUST be perma-locked by logies and maybe even kept repaired when logy have nothing else to rep. This way, I believe, CD will leave longer.

Please comment on that!
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Biwako Acami

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Post 2017.04.19 06:11

Re: Pontifex

There are many fits that I see for Pontifex. Mostly focused as:
  1. Fleet Boosher with Single Burst
  2. Fleet Multi-Burst
  3. Small Gang Boosher
  4. Solo Fit
  5. Snatch
Disclaimer: Most fits below are just dumps of killboard history. While I'd like to refine them I'm just trying with the time I have to gauge whats out there (subjectively since I don't sift through 100% data.)



Fleet Boosher
For the Boosh Pontifex I refer to Raido's fit since he seems to prefer that when going armor doctrine. Its quite tanky and he doesn't waste fitting space on guns. I think he opts for scram over disruptor for both catching targets (unless they're AB fit) and preventing enemy Booshes.

SPOILER WARNING!
  Code:
[Pontifex, Raido Kudonen's Pontifex]
400mm Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Thermal Plating II

5MN Microwarpdrive II
Micro Jump Field Generator
Warp Scrambler II

Armor Command Burst II,Armor Energizing Charge

Small Trimark Armor Pump II
Small Trimark Armor Pump II

Acolyte II x3
Hobgoblin II x2
Warrior II x5


SPOILER WARNING!
  Code:
[Pontifex, Raido Kudonen's Pontifex w Bling]

400mm Steel Plates II
Coreli A-Type Thermal Plating
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

5MN Microwarpdrive II
Micro Jump Field Generator
Warp Scrambler II

Armor Command Burst II, Armor Energizing Charge
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Trimark Armor Pump II
Small Trimark Armor Pump II


Hobgoblin II x5
Acolyte II x4

He's obviously missing some drones there. I'm not sure if he uses Hornet EC-300s or puts in more damage. It might be worth having ECM drones since command destroyers are often primary targets and an FC generally goes out of his way to ensure that there is a scram on this target to prevent the boosh.



Fleet Multi-Burst
Modified Raido's fit to add 2 bursts. Looking at other fits on zkillboard it does seem like for the Pontifex dual bursts is used and is often a tanky booshing one as well.
SPOILER WARNING!
  Code:
[Pontifex, Raido Kudonen's Pontifex copy]

400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Damage Control II
True Sansha Adaptive Nano Plating
Shadow Serpentis Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Coreli A-Type Thermal Plating

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Micro Jump Field Generator
Warp Scrambler II

Armor Command Burst II, Armor Energizing Charge
Information Command Burst II, Sensor Optimization Charge
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Trimark Armor Pump II
Small Command Processor I


Hobgoblin II x2
Acolyte II x3
Warrior II x5

3 burst CDs are not rare and we've run one in the Tyrian Tournament but it does seem like 3-burst Pontifexs are not used.



Small Gang Boosher
The purpose here is to not only Boosh but then contribute with DPS. These seem to be more customized fits on zkillboard and not one has caught my eye to get a significant mention. The general principle is have boosh, follow FW archetypes (AB/Scram, MWD/Kite), sometimes self rep but 1-2 DDA since this is the bulk of the damage done. I've seen Hybrid guns on occasion but burst modules are rare.



Solo Fit
Various solo fits out there but mostly armor tanked with one DDA. The one below is dual repped and I've seen a few of these.
SPOILER WARNING!
  Code:
[Pontifex, Dokii Dokii's Pontifex]

Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Small Armor Repairer II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

5MN Microwarpdrive II
Warp Scrambler II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Small Energy Neutralizer II
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
Armor Command Burst I, Armor Energizing Charge

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II


Hornet EC-300 x5
Warrior II x5




Snatch Fit
General principle behind this seems to be Jump Drive, Warp Disruptor, Remote Rep and Weapons/Nosferatu. This is more commonly found than solo fits or even the Multi-Burst ones.
SPOILER WARNING!
  Code:
[Pontifex, SnowCrashNZ's Pontifex]
400mm Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
True Sansha Energized Thermal Membrane

5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Micro Jump Field Generator
Warp Disruptor II

Small Ghoul Compact Energy Nosferatu
Small Solace Scoped Remote Armor Repairer
200mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S

Small Trimark Armor Pump II
Small Trimark Armor Pump II

Hobgoblin II x8
Hobgoblin II x7


MWD vs Afterburner
I think this is adjustable according to the need. There are two advantages to fitting the AB; fitting cost and reducing impact of scram. In most cases I've seen the AB was used to allow for more fitting room. The AB also helps when you are expected to be under scram pressure at the start but don't want to be locked down in terms of mobility. The major disadvantage is that if your goal is to boosh while on field its going to be hard to maneuver (Edit: I say this for cases where your targets are faster, not locked down or further away). This disadvantage is reduced if you're expected to have a warp in to boosh or you're multi booshing.
Last edited by Biwako Acami on 2017.04.20 02:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Kerodan Alduin

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Post 2017.04.19 21:16

Re: Pontifex

One more point on AB + disruptor: I generally agree with Budda, though I think an exception can be made for CDs: If you want to aggressively jump, then scramming your target will be pointless (puns intended), as it will stay on field, while you jump off. A pointed target will be taken with you and has less chance of escaping. I don't remember though if modules are switched off by jumping - does anyone know?

Plus what Biwako said.
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Biwako Acami

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Post 2017.04.20 02:15

Re: Pontifex

The check for MJDFG is done at the end of the cycle so if the warp scram has decycled before that the ship is still influenced by the Boosh. MJDFG cycle time is between 5 to 9 seconds depending on skill level but the scram is 5 seconds. So if you're having shorter MJDFG cycle times you might want to run it half way through the last cycle of scram. This only works if you're the only one with scram active on the target.

You could also potentially leave the scram on a target you don't want to come with you. The disruptor however will remain cycling if the target is Booshed along with you. (Edit: Which is one of the points of the Snatch Fleet so I'll update the notes to point it out. Pun intended.)
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Neonen Enderas (Biomassed 2017.06.23)

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Post 2017.04.20 08:02

Re: Pontifex

If you go spearfishing you don't have enough to lock and scram anyway. But you want to keep your target locked down. So you jump in with the first, start locking, jump again, scram. Enjoy kill. If done properly, you can't even lock before you jump again. Scram>AB in this case. If you want to drag stuff along with you, a point is still.. pointless. They can pull range with a point and you can't keep them locked down after jumping.
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Did someone say "Stealthbomber"? Explosions? And ECM? I'm in! Let's blow shit up! ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

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Biwako Acami

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Post 2017.04.21 05:17

Re: Pontifex

Yes, you are right. Spearfishing doesn't involve a lot of time for CD pilots to do anything else until the've scooped their target.

CDs also travel as the lone jumper in the fleet. We had a recent engagement where the CD pilot warped into the hostile fleet to either jump his target or draw fire while his fleet landed. In this scenario there is a lot of time before you will get an opportunity to boosh. The first call of the hostile fleet was to scram the CD.

Looking at the snatch fleet videos the disruptor is the primary tackle. Target's are cruiser sized and can't outrun the doctrine ships. Some bursts are involved. Interdictors are used. Jumps are called on the spot by FC. The scram would work against the goal if used incorrectly.
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.04.27 04:51

Re: Pontifex

Thanks Biwako!

I would like to finalize this thread. For this first please familiarize with rules I would like to propose: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 6&t=104311 (comment in that topic please).

Assuming we will stick to my rules proposal I would like to reduce the amount of fits in the discussion.

Fleet Boosher
Comparing regular Raido's fit with b-ling I see difference: +2k EHP; +1% resist; +30M. Though I would close the kinetic hole by replacing Trimark rig by Anti-Kinetic.
I don't see reasonable usage for bling: people can always do that on their own.
And bigger question: why 1-burst CD at all? multi-burst has 30% less EHP (21.5k vs 28.4)... Is it better to fit 1-burst with more EHP? Otherwise, if getting 2 CD ... maybe get 1 CD with 2 links and get 1 more logy instead?

Fleet Multi-Burst

Raido's feet similar to my, only blinged for tank, has +2-4% resist, less DPS (no guns), and costs +20M
I assume CDs purpose is to boost fleet, not to bring DPS...

Small Gang Boosher

I think we should not recommend such fit: boosher is not effective solo and needs fleet support. If it has fleet support, it needs Burst modules, not dps.

Solo Fit
Ability to tank 330 dps is great, but 230 DPS... it is same as Confessor, but has no web, needs cap and drones.
Is this viable? Should we post this?

I see how it could work in a small kitchen-sink (brawling?) fleet.

Snatch Fit
Not sure what's the purpose of it? How is it better than "Fleet Boosher" ability to have a logy in fleet? I feel CD should be used as boosher/burst.

Proposed summary is to stick to:
1) Raido's Fleet Boosher => rename to Pontifex: Fleet Boosher. But again, is 1-burst CD makes any benefits?
2) Raido's Fleet Multi-Burst => rename to Pontifex: Fleet Multi-Burst
3) Solo Fit => rename to Pontifex: Solo PvP

Any feedback?
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White 0rchid

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Post 2017.04.27 08:30

Re: Pontifex

My only feedback here is that for the pure 'fleet boosher' you would probably want to stick a cloak on it. The role of the fleet boosher often does not involve locking people but sometimes the key is to catch people off guard, especially in wspace. That usually involves them not knowing you are there until it's too late.

  Code:
[Pontifex, Waffles Pontifex]

Damage Control II
400mm Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Armor Layering Membrane II
Coreli A-Type Thermal Plating

5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Micro Jump Field Generator
Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Improved Cloaking Device II
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
[Empty High slot]

Small Trimark Armor Pump II
Small Trimark Armor Pump II


Hornet EC-300 x5
Warrior II x5
Hobgoblin II x5


Barrage S x1000
Republic Fleet EMP S x2272
Republic Fleet Fusion S x1000
Nanite Repair Paste x100
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.04.27 13:19

Re: Pontifex

LOL, how could I miss that, my Pontifex in WHC does have a cloak... Agreed. So I will publish all 3 fits soon!
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.04.29 02:36

Re: Pontifex

ee... White, your fleet boosher has no link... It is boosher indeed as it has MJFG, but ... for fleet burst module has more value than cloak...

That sounds like we need a fleet boosher and WH-boosher:
  Code:
[Pontifex, Waffles Pontifex - WH boosher]

Damage Control II
400mm Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Armor Layering Membrane II
Coreli A-Type Thermal Plating

5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Micro Jump Field Generator
Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Improved Cloaking Device II
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
[Empty High slot]

Small Trimark Armor Pump II
Small Trimark Armor Pump II

Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Warrior II x5

Barrage S x1000
Republic Fleet EMP S x2272
Republic Fleet Fusion S x1000
Nanite Repair Paste x100


And preserve Raido's fit as a "Fleet Boosher", or maybe name it "Fleet Booster"?
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White 0rchid

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Post 2017.04.29 07:56

Re: Pontifex

It's honestly rare that we/most people fit links to a command destroyer. It's usually only the case in a small gang, for a fleet you'd still be taking a T3 or a command ship (damnation or vulture usually). The command destroyers are just too weak for fleet links (but yes, fine for solo)
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2017.04.29 22:06

Re: Pontifex

White 0rchid wrote:It's honestly rare that we/most people fit links to a command destroyer. It's usually only the case in a small gang, for a fleet you'd still be taking a T3 or a command ship (damnation or vulture usually). The command destroyers are just too weak for fleet links (but yes, fine for solo)

Agree,... but what if you fly T3Ds? I guess 2links CD would benefit fleet of Confessors or Jackdaws... with high resist it will stay quite a long on the field... and is not much more expensive (I believe than T3D).
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