Rules on salvaging other's rat wrecks.

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Roeth Tsero
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Rules on salvaging other's rat wrecks.

Post by Roeth Tsero »

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Last edited by Roeth Tsero on 2020.10.31 00:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Random Sample
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Re: Rules on salvaging other's rat wrecks.

Post by Random Sample »

For whatever it’s worth, that is how I interpreted that section when I read it, i.e. the restrictions apply to PC wrecks with nothing implied with regard to NPC wrecks. This because we are always “allowed to fight” NPCs.

Agree that clarification would be beneficial.
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Ernesto Guevarti
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Re: Rules on salvaging other's rat wrecks.

Post by Ernesto Guevarti »

Random Sample wrote:the restrictions apply to PC wrecks with nothing implied with regard to NPC wrecks. This because we are always “allowed to fight” NPCs.
Except, NPC wrecks are marked as belonging to a player (the player that got the killing blow), so you are stealing from that player (hence the whole rule about salvaging).

Using your justification, you'd be allowed to scan down a player, fly to their mission site and start ninja salvaging their wrecks. This is definitely not allowed under uni rules.
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Gant Edron
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Re: Rules on salvaging other's rat wrecks.

Post by Gant Edron »

"EVE University considers all wrecks of player's ships to belong to the player who lost the ship."
It may be a little hamfisted (I would suggest "The University considers that the wreck of a players ship, belongs to the player who lost that ship") but I think the person in chat has simply misinterpreted the above. The intent seems pretty clear to me, you need to have "lost the ship" therefore it can't be referring to an NPC ship, as you can't "lose" an enemy ship. Therefore, it must refer to the players own ship - having been lost (to an enemy), and that any modules dropped still retain ownership to the player.
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Random Sample
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Re: Rules on salvaging other's rat wrecks.

Post by Random Sample »

Ernesto Guevarti wrote:This is definitely not allowed under uni rules.
That may be the intent as you perceive it, but it is at best ambiguous in the rules as written.

And I would question the intent as well. In Null or WH space, salvaging a neutral or hostile player’s NPC kills is no more aggressive than... killing them. And we do kill them.
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Mosrael Kibeth
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Re: Rules on salvaging other's rat wrecks.

Post by Mosrael Kibeth »

Roeth, thanks for writing this up. I think I was on one of my alts when we were initially discussing this.

Although it's rather hidden, the page that settled it for me was https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/EVE_University_Myths.
Specifically...
"Our current EVE University Rules can be summarised thusly: ...No stealing or scamming"

When an NPC was killed by another player, they own the wreck (marked yellow in Overview), and salvaging the wreck would be stealing their property.

All of this could be resolved by making this rule more explicit:
"Any other wrecks should not be touched unless they have been abandoned, which means they will be blue on the overview, or the member has the consent of the player who owns the wreck"

As Roeth said, "any other wrecks" can be interpreted any way a Unista wants, based on their interpretation of other rules. Can we get an officer to update the rules to clarify?
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Max Tsero
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Re: Rules on salvaging other's rat wrecks.

Post by Max Tsero »

Just briefly on my understanding, This has been held in the past to mean that Yellow wrecks are off limits without the consent of their "owner".
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Random Sample
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Re: Rules on salvaging other's rat wrecks.

Post by Random Sample »

Here is a proposed edit of the applicable section in the rules page, which I believe is faithful to the spirit of the Uni and removes the ambiguity:

Loot distribution
In EVE Online when a ship is destroyed it leaves behind a 'wreck', which contains both loot and salvage.

Friendly players
* Friendly players are EVE University members and players with positive ('blue') standings to the corporation.
* All wrecks of friendly player controlled ships belong to the player who lost the ship.
* All wrecks of NPC ships killed by friendly players belong to the player who killed the NPC.
* Loot and salvage from these ships should be given back to their owner.
* If an EVE University led fleet obtains loot or salvage from player or NPC ships they have destroyed during the fleet, the Fleet Commander may decide what to do with it. Distribution of items or ISK must be done in a fair and transparent manner.

Non-friendly players
* EVE University members may treat wrecks of non-friendly players in the same manner as they treat those players' active ships
* If attacking a non-friendly player would be allowed under our rules of engagement, loot and salvage may be taken from wrecks of that player's ship or NPC ships killed by that player


Interested in your thoughts...
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