Carrier - How to Triage and Spider Tank

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Kriegarman

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Post 2013.12.31 09:05

Carrier - How to Triage and Spider Tank

Declassification note 2015-05-31 wrote:Please note that some of the information in this thread may predate the significant Jump Drive mechanics overhaul in the Phoebe release. Caveat lector.


Greetings Pilot! You have decided to take on a critical role - one of self sacrifice, lack of killboard padding, and honest to god boss tanking and white knight saviour repping. Thats right, you are everyones Guardian Angel, The Carrier!

Carriers are without a doubt the strongest Logistics in the game with one of the most versatile role of all capitals. You want to do damage? Form a spider tanking fleet of Carriers with clouds of angry Sentries to punish and destroy your foes. Feeling like a bit of medium gang support? Fit a Triage Module and Boss tank the entire enemy fleet while keeping all of your allies alive with your insane lock times and massive repping power. Jump in to save your bait ship as he enters structure with your boss reppers and harvest your enemys tears at the lack of kills they get. Getting Primaried? Refit off your buddy Carrier pilot and coast out of Triage as your buddy takes over being the Hero. Supporting your fellow Capital Blap Dread pilots? Sit close by providing fuel, refitting capabilities and Cap for the big daddy's of damage. Joining a Nullsec Alliance and want to do Supercapital Warfare? Join clouds of Carriers as you laugh at the futility of the enemy attacking your fleet, repping your allies and decimating your foes with thousands of drones. Or are you a White Knight? Hero Triage to save a Supercapital with overheated remote reps, or to save your entire fleet of allies so they may escape, sacrificing yourself in the process. Or will you? Jump out at the last second to your Cyno Alt and celebrate your hard earned victory. Carrier life is hard, but rewarding.

Carriers and their abilities:
As mentioned above, Carrier roles include:
Solo Triage Logistics - Used to repair your Subcap fleet with blistering lock times and heavy capital remote repairs
Paired Triage Logistics - One of you Triages as Primary Triage (Jump into Triage as soon as you're on grid) while your ally provides non-triage reps, DPS for the fleet and refitting ability to your Carrier. Once you hit half Triage, your ally jumps into Triage to allow you to regen cap, or if you're being primaried, to coast out of triage with heavy resist modules fitted while your ally repairs the allied fleet, and you once you're out of triage.
Spidertanking ("Pantheon" doctrine) - Groups of 5 or more Carriers form a single tank type chain of RR logistics with ET chain. Repair your allies while also applying concentrated DPS on the enemy fleet.
Slowcat Fleets - Groups of over 100 Carriers repairing each other and Supercapitals. Larger versions of Spidertanking fleets.
Dreadnought Support - Along with possibly being one of the above roles, you're there as a refitting and refuelling platform for your fellow Capital ships. You may also be used by your subcapital allies to refit to Smartbombing Battleships to clear drones, neuting ships to assist vs enemy logistics or capitals, or to refit and repair damaged modules.
Logistics and Hauling - Need your items and ships moving to a new staging area for an op? Use the Carriers excellent 1 Million m3 Ship maintenance bay to move ships, plus the 10k m3 Fleet Hanger to haul modules, fuel, strontium, you name it to wherever your Jump Drive can take you.

As a Carrier, it is very important to ensure you have at all times the below modules in your Cargohold (For items relating soley to your Carrier) and items your fleetmates can use in your Fleet Hanger.

Firstly, your Cargohold:
A Mobile Depot, just in case you have no Carriers on field with you, or in range of you to use their fitting services.
Scripts and Modules to refit for Locking, including ECCM if out of Triage. 3x Sensor Boosters and 3x Racial Meta 4 ECCM.
Depending on your Carrier, Reinforced Bulkheads to fill all but 1 of your lows. The other Low being a Damage Control. If you're in Triage and you have been capped out and are approaching Structure, you best stick those Hull tanking modules in, they're your best bet to survive your Triage Cycle so your allies can repair you once you're out.
Extra Tanking Modules! Ensure you have at LEAST 2 of every active resist module (4 if you have Invulnerability Fields) and 4 EANM's. The reson for this is you can Overheat your modules for more tank, and if you accidently burn one out, switch to the spare tanking module that hasn't been burned out. This includes the active Adaptive to Damage types modules. Due to your HP buffer, you have a lot of time for it to change to the optimum resist.
Cap Recharge Modules - Depending on how you're jumping in you may need to, especially in large Alliances, refit at a midpoint to recharge your cap. Ensure you have enough Capacitor Power Relays and Cap Recharger II's to fully fill your module slots. This can also be useful when cruising out of Triage after a (Successful) engagement. Or unsuccessful depending on neuters on the field.
Cap Booster 800's and a few Heavy Capacitor Booster II's - This is if you're being neuted and you want to regain cap to either jump out, or activate your local repairer. Not as useful on a Carrier, but you will have these in your fleet hanger regardless for your Subcap allies.
Large Capacitor Battery II's - Another way to survive neuting depending on how many they have on field. Laugh at the single Armageddon Neuting you when you have a few of these fitted while you rep the rest of the fleet ripping him a new one.
Drugs! You want (Depending on your tank) Exile boosters for local Armour repairing when things get dire, or Blue Pill for shield. Other drugs include Mindflood for Capacitor Recharge. Keep in mind these have side effects like reduced armour amount, reduced capacitor amount, reduced repair amount etc. Check the side effects on each drug and memorise them. They should only really be used in emergencies.
(Unsure about this, need to test it) A Cloak and a 100mn MWD. The MWD (supposedly) can help you align faster by getting up to speed quicker to warp out. The Sig bonus is negligable considering you're a Capital ship.
Warp Core Stabilisers for jumping out of combat just after dropping Triage. Note, this won't work if you're in a bubble or you are tackled by a Heavy Interdictor (HIC) infinitypoint.
Drone Modules - In case you want to use your Sentries in a Damage role, have a couple of Drone Link Augmentors, Drone Damage Amplifiers and Omnidirectional Tracking Computers to fit to a pure DPS role.

Your Fleet Hanger:
Depending on your ship, you may want to carry a Capital Energy Transfer Array I if you have fellow Capitals on the field. You may need it to save their lives. While it is unbonused on the Nidhoggur and Thanatos, the bonus is only range.
Carry a full rack of 8 Large Smartbombs - This is to clear drones from your fleetmates. An Allied Battleship will refit to this if your FC asks for it.
Carry a full rack of 8 Neuts with 2x Heavy Cap Booster II's (Or Meta 4 Variants) with 20 or so Cap Booster 800's for if your fleet doesn't have enough Neuting power.
Carry a Warp Disruptor. It's really funny to use your Capital to tackle stuff if you're switching to a Spidertank role mid-fight as the enemy fleet is dying/attempting to flee.
Carry extra Strontium and extra Liquid Ozone as well as your Racial Fuel. The Liquid Ozone should be 1000 (Enough for 2 very badly skilled Cynos) as well as a couple of Cyno modules. This is in case you managed to jump in byut your Cyno pilots have died, and you require more Capitals on the field.

Your Fuel Bay:
Depending on if you are fit for Triage, ensure you have enough Strontium for 5+ cycles of Triage.
Fill it to the brim with your Racial Fuel. Ensure you have enough fuel for 2 Full Jumps. A good way to check is via this link:
http://www.eve-icsc.com/jumptools/jumpplanner.php

Skills:
You should have at the very minimum Jump Drive Calibration 4 (Increases your Jump Range) and Jump Fuel Conservation 4 (Decreases your fuel usage)
Other skills to have trained:
Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration IV - This reduces your Strontium usage on each Triage cycle. T2 Triage is a beast, and you should head for it, should you enjoy flying Triage.
Capital Shield/Armour Repair to IV
All specific resists to IV or V (If you're in a capital you should already have these to V, or at least your weakest one. Armour: Explosive, Shield: EM)
Your Racial Carrier to IV
All Capacitor skills to V (Energy Management, Energy Grid Upgrades etc)
All Locking skills to V (Signature Analysis V, Long Range Targeting V Targeting V etc, you will likely have these anyway if you're a Logistics pilot.)
Advanced Targeting IV - With T2 Triage you can lock 11 Targets! T1 Triage can lock 10.
T2 Sentry Drones - Trust me this is nice.
Fighters IV - While not critical on a Triage Carrier, you should get this after everything else.
Capital Remote Armour Repair IV
Capital Remote Shield Repair IV
Capital Energy Emission Systems IV
Drone Durability IV
Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing V
Advanced Drone Interfacing III - This is for Slowcat fleets primarily. Allows you to fit 1 extra Drone Control Unit module per level for a maximum of 5 (Overall a maximum of 15 Drones/Carrier)
Biology IV
(Drug skills) IV
Cybernetics IV-V

Implants:
While everyone in an Armour ship wishes they had a full Slave set, there are other implants which can be very useful. Consider dedicating a Jump Clone purely to your Carrier, containing implants which boost the following, depending on the amount of money you're willing to throw out:
Genolution Set
Slave Sets
Stolen shamelessly from Titus:
There's no remote armor repair amount implant. However, there is the RA-70X series that reduces the capacitor usage on remote armor repair modules.
Local armor repair cycle time (RS-60X) and capacitor recharge (EO-60X) are mutually exclusive.
Remote shield repairer capacitor use (SE-80X) and capacitor amount (EM-80X) are mutually exclusive.
Local armor repair amount (RP-90X) and booster side effect reduction (NC-90X) are mutually exclusive.
Armor amount (HG-100X) and booster side effect chance reduction (NR-100X) are mutually exclusive.
Drug Booster side effects decrease

Strategies:
Solo Triage:
As a solo Triage carrier you are very vulnerable to enemy fleets DPS or Neuting. Ensure that if you're being neuted, the FC knows about it, and who the heavy neuters are. Generally speaking you will be taking part in small-mid gang engagements. As a Triage carrier you will be at the forefront of the battle. You will be able to see if your fleet will survive, or if it will not via your powerful repping abilities.

As soon as you are called in you are to immediately enter Triage and start repping your allied fleet. The enemy fleet will take a few seconds to realise you're on grid, so use this time to turn on your defensive modules and conserve cap where you can. In a Triage carrier, cap is life. Without it you will die very quickly, as nobody can assist you while the Triage module is active. When you jump in you will only have 20% of your capacitor. This will regenerate quickly if you are correctly fitted and are only using 2 of your remote repair modules.

Some of the strategies you can perform is keeping the enemy fleet keen on killing a certain target, by keeping your ally in low armour (20-40%). This is a great way to allow the enemy fleet to think they are breaking a target, when in reality your ally can be repaired to full at any time once you start using more than 1 repairer. I would advise against doing this unless you have previous Logistics experience in attempting this. This also means that the enemy DPS is centered on a target with a better tank than say, some support ships or lower class ships. This makes your life easier until they switch, and allows your fleet to effectively engage and kill their incoming DPS

When you get primaried by the enemy fleet, the important thing to keep in mind is NOT TO PANIC. Keep a cool head and assess the incoming DPS. Ensure you only use the minimal amount of local rep cycles to conserve your cap for repairing your fleet, or if the enemy fleet brings in more support and the DPS increases. You can also tempt fate by purposely making your tank look like it is breaking. This is up to you, if you feel you can do this without adversely affecting your allied fleet, then fine. Request permission from the FC first.
If your tank is breaking, it might be worth considering using one of the drugs you have for such occasions. The boost to local repair amount is quite substantial, even with the potential drawbacks. Ensure your FC knows you're being primaried and that your tank is breaking.


Dual/Multi Triage:
A lot of this is similar to solo Triage, the only difference is you and your allied Capital need to stay in fitting range of each other. If this is impossible due to bumping, it is even more critical to ensure when you triage, that your ally can still come out of triage and survive the incoming DPS so you may rep him.

Ensure you decide before you jump who is primary and who is secondary triage. The primary will triage immediately upon entering the battle, and the secondary will be there to provide support and DPS to the fleet while awaiting the time to enter triage himself. Usually you can stay out of triage until your ally gets primaried or neuted. Other times it is wise to switch is when your ally is getting low on cap from sustained repping of your allied fleet.

RnK have some excellent videos on this, but I would advise on your overview to have all of your modules shown, and the empty slots also shown. If you need to quickly refit, you can drag and drop these modules onto the activation bars or your cargohold a lot quicker than via the fitting window. You also have the added bonus of being able to turn on tanking modules quicker. (Your mouse will be hovering over them at this point anyway) Refitting is key to surviving enemy fleet DPS. Ensure you practice refitting in the field on perhaps Singularity, or outside a station with a friend.


Spidertanking:
As a spider fleet, you should generally be in a spidertank fit. See the fitting thread for those. Generally speaking this is a fleet of 5 or more Carriers with the same tank type all ETing and Repping each other/allies. You can do some crazy stuff with this, have a dedicated pointer, assign all drones to assist a single carrier so he can "blap" them, depending on your damage mods etc. There really isn't much in the way of strategy for this, except stay within fitting range, rep the broadcasted targets and have your drones either assigned to a carrier which is pointing stuff, or to the FC.

Your main priority is ensuring your cap buddy (Buddies) is constantly getting cap, and to ensure you are not bumped out of fitting or rep range of your allies by enemy bumpers.

Carrier Cloud (Slowcats):
This is just Spidertanking on a grand scale. There are new metas evolving over how this works. Some of those metas include the Sphere doctrine, where the Carrier Slowcat fleet orbits an anchor at 20km, so that the Titans inside do not get bumped away from the fleet.

Links:
RnK's Excellent dual triage Logistics setup. Amazing set of videos to watch for budding Carrier pilots looking to rep all the things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMFahR4wXTg
Single Carrier being a boss: (18 minutes or so in)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrYe_4vHzgE

Declassification note 2015-05-31 wrote:Thread approved for declassification. ~TT
Last edited by Kriegarman on 2014.01.09 01:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Titus Tallang

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Post 2014.01.02 15:46

Re: Carrier - How to Triage and Spider Tank

  • There's no remote armor repair amount implant. However, there is the RA-70X series that reduces the capacitor usage on remote armor repair modules.
  • Local armor repair cycle time (RS-60X) and capacitor recharge (EO-60X) are mutually exclusive.
  • Remote shield repairer capacitor use (SE-80X) and capacitor amount (EM-80X) are mutually exclusive.
  • Local armor repair amount (RP-90X) and booster side effect reduction (NC-90X) are mutually exclusive.
  • Armor amount (HG-100X) and booster side effect chance reduction (NR-100X) are mutually exclusive.
Scientia potentia est.
If a statement I made seems offensive to you, please be assured that this was not my intent.
If I am mistaken about something, please tell me about it. We improve through sharing knowledge.
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Blake Dex

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Post 2014.01.03 19:46

Re: Carrier - How to Triage and Spider Tank

For the Thanny, i recommend using the full genolution implant set, If you go with slaves, you cannot fit the standard 2 self rep, 1 ET, 3 Remote rep setup. The full genolute set boosts the Armor capacity (not nearly as much as a slave set though), The shield capacity (relatively unimportant), But the two most important are the Cap Regen boost and the fitting boost which allows you to fit the standard triage fit. The only option when using slaves is to drop one of the local reppers, or replace your Slave Omega with a 6% PG implant. I'm not sure if this applies to the Nidhoggur or not.
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Kriegarman

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Post 2014.01.09 00:50

Re: Carrier - How to Triage and Spider Tank

Blake Dex wrote:For the Thanny, i recommend using the full genolution implant set, If you go with slaves, you cannot fit the standard 2 self rep, 1 ET, 3 Remote rep setup. The full genolute set boosts the Armor capacity (not nearly as much as a slave set though), The shield capacity (relatively unimportant), But the two most important are the Cap Regen boost and the fitting boost which allows you to fit the standard triage fit. The only option when using slaves is to drop one of the local reppers, or replace your Slave Omega with a 6% PG implant. I'm not sure if this applies to the Nidhoggur or not.


Thanatos has no bonus to ET, meaning it only has 15km range. While its worth having the module in your fleet hanger to assist a fellow carrier, it's better to have a 3 repper, or 4 repper with the Genolution fit. Keep in mind this heavily neuters your cap if you're using all 4 reps.

Standard setup for a Thanatos is 3 Remote 2 Local 1 Smartbomb and Triage. Alternatively for shield rep you can go 4 meta remote 2 local and triage.
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Zun Far

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Post 2014.02.14 18:25

Re: Carrier - How to Triage and Spider Tank

RP-90X does not apply to capital modules.
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S'ti Ca'zz

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Post 2014.02.23 07:45

Re: Carrier - How to Triage and Spider Tank

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Titus Tallang

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Post 2014.02.23 18:34

Re: Carrier - How to Triage and Spider Tank

Good to see that "someone" decided to read this post after forgetting to train Reconfiguration the first time around :roll:
Scientia potentia est.
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If I am mistaken about something, please tell me about it. We improve through sharing knowledge.
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I am Ozymandias

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Post 2014.08.21 14:48

Re: Carrier - How to Triage and Spider Tank

Kriegarman wrote: ... Drugs! You want (Depending on your tank) Exile boosters for local Armour repairing when things get dire, or Blue Pill for shield. Other drugs include Mindflood for Capacitor Recharge. Keep in mind these have side effects like reduced armour amount, reduced capacitor amount, reduced repair amount etc. Check the side effects on each drug and memorise them. They should only really be used in emergencies.


Does this still hold true?
Are drugs highly situational or do I take drugs the moment I activate triage?

What grade of drugs is the go to? The best with the most likely and worst drawbacks? Or is there a nice middleground between risk, drawback and bonus?
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Titus Tallang

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Post 2014.08.21 15:25

Re: Carrier - How to Triage and Spider Tank

You take the highest level (Strong) if you want to afford it.
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If a statement I made seems offensive to you, please be assured that this was not my intent.
If I am mistaken about something, please tell me about it. We improve through sharing knowledge.
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Mia Sedgwick

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Post 2014.08.22 18:37

Re: Carrier - How to Triage and Spider Tank

Drugs should usually be used when you are under extreme pressure either neut or damage, it is always a calculated risk but generally speaking when you do need to use combat drugs it'd be in a dire situation where not taking them will likely cause the loss of your capital.

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