What I Learned Today in Incursions

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Comeonnnnnn Sparassid

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Post 2018.02.28 05:55

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Tonight was my second night of flying DD in a brand new hyperion!
the most important thing i learnt on the first night was that "Shift + R" brings my drones back before the FC warps us away
apart from that, the first night wasn't too eventful and quite relaxing

as for the second night, it was far more exciting
the nation of Sansha decided that i was an actual threat and shot me today!
i learnt that nierjas are bad because they jam, which means i cant shoot back at anything
tamas are bad because they scram me
deltoles are bad because it paints me and then rips away my tiny shield....
its at this time that i learnt why the logis are so important, so thank you very much logi pilots!

and finally, i learnt that i want to fly a vindicator and get my T2 guns ASAP
i just wanna be able to shoot the niarjas once!!!!

thanks for the amazing fleet!
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Susan Wulf

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Post 2018.02.28 06:26

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Today in Incursions, I learned that modifications to the generic kill order can be made and make the fleet more efficient. This would require knowledge about rats abilities and fleet composition, and should not compromise opsec. considerations.
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Cassiel Seraphim

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Post 2018.02.28 13:25

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Susan Wulf wrote:Today in Incursions, I learned that modifications to the generic kill order can be made and make the fleet more efficient. This would require knowledge about rats abilities and fleet composition, and should not compromise opsec. considerations.
Indeed, it's a simple yet complex concept.

It boils down to knowing why we do things and what happens if we don't. Bottom line, doing it the "standard" way always works, keeps you safe. But that doesn't mean there's not room for changing things up a bit. But if you do, tell people why, tell them what makes it possible, why it works in this particular fleet, with these fits and give examples of when it wouldn't work etc, that way people learn the reasons behind it and can put it into the proper context. And more importantly, tell them it's not the standard way, so we don't end up with a new generation thinking that's the new standard without knowing it's not.
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Johnathan Bolt

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Post 2018.03.01 06:20

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

G'day,
I learned that Incursions are fun and I want to do more of it. My fleet and combat skill are much better after only two outings. There isn't much representation from Oceania (hello) so If I need to get FC skills to get it happening that's what I do.

Cheers
JB.
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Susan Wulf

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Post 2018.03.01 18:18

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Today I learned that I must at least have a dedicated tab in my overview for incursions. This became evident during a contest (my first), in which the grid was packed and my overview not properly filtering out useless targets.
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Comeonnnnnn Sparassid

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Post 2018.03.01 23:33

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Last night I learned about contesting in incursions and how it is one of the few situations where you DO want to kill the eysters in OTAs
I also learnt about the mechanics of contesting - shooting right when the deltole gets into armor, going for the augas, waiting to shoot the niarjas (cause hopefully they'll jam the other guys)
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Kendaer Draconis

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Post 2018.03.02 18:04

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Last night I learned that while it seems easy to be an FC when you are listening to one as a member, its a lot harder than it seems when you actually step up and attempt it. Quite grateful for the expert advice and support from folks like Logan, Mz, dili, reem, and others who made my first fc attempt probably far smoother than it could have been otherwise.
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Reembody

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Post 2018.03.03 07:42

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

So more FC craziness tonight. We were able to get 30 sites done. We had an issue with the understanding of the purpose of a module that helped contribute to us docking up a few times. This slowed us down but thankfully that has been sorted out and the fleet held together to continue on. Going to try and do better to make sure the purpose of things is clear to newer people so help alleviate issues that can arise.

Kendaer did a good job as FC the previous night.
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Cassiel Seraphim

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Post 2018.03.03 13:11

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Reembody wrote:We had an issue with the understanding of the purpose of a module that helped contribute to us docking up a few times. This slowed us down but thankfully that has been sorted out and the fleet held together to continue on. Going to try and do better to make sure the purpose of things is clear to newer people so help alleviate issues that can arise.
This is a perfect opportunity for you to share details of what the problem actually was and how you solved it, so people can read about it and learn from it without having to run into the same problem themselves. After all, that's the whole purpose of this thread; To share experiences and what you learned from it.
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Susan Wulf

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Post 2018.03.04 04:45

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Today I was allowed to FC a couple of sites, and failed on numerous occasions:
- I warped myself instead of the fleet.
- I warped away from my drones
- I warped the fleet before a site was finished
- I forgot the killorder about every second spawn
- I forgot to call site mechanics, i.e. ore run
- I was slow to call for alings.
- I felt like I a mix of other FC styles I've been exposed to
- I even had excuses
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Cassiel Seraphim

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Post 2018.03.04 14:24

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Fall back on the standards that we have that always work. Learn that, understand why it works, then start developing your own personal style by testing the styles of other fleet commanders.
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Susan Wulf

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Post 2018.03.06 05:21

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Today I FCed some more, about 18 sites, and only two people died. I relaxed a bit more and finally found a rhythm. I found that it's mostly doing it a couple of times. Once you got your normal on-grid role down properly, it's mostly adding some tasks to that and getting "call x when mechanic Y"-routine, but also remembering to pass along tagging (or even align BCs), fleet administration and checking up on the picket. I liked that the picket updated me in the chat every now and then, that way, everytime I call for Ls and boosts, I'll see it either way and know that he is there and watching without having to use comms.

I asked for feedback when the fleet ended, didn't get any, but to whoever participated, please feel free to convo me, mail me or whatever - any feedback would be most appreciated.
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Cassiel Seraphim

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Post 2018.03.06 07:02

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Susan Wulf wrote:... and only two people died. I relaxed a bit more and finally found a rhythm.
I've found that I can stay pretty calm up until the halfway point, so like 5-6 people is where I start worrying ;)
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Comeonnnnnn Sparassid

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Post 2018.03.07 22:05

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

I have been tagging a couple of times now since I saw it as a stepping stone to being a FC. I have slipped up a couple times where I forget to tag and instead focus on shooting, but once I get into the rhythm of things, its smooth going from there.
But last night, I was given an impromptu opportunity to FC and I took it!
It took me a site or two to get into the swing of things but I would like to think that I did a decent-ish job
Things I noticed:
1. Almost broke rule 1 of incursions in an NMC (ore drop is what gives payout.... not dead rats...)
2. I can call for drones to be deployed, but I should probably deploy my drones as well
3. Figure out the Logi/Ore situation during the second wave of an NMC so that you don't waste time on the third wave
4. In an NMC, when a Logi is deploying ore, they can get caught between rocks, so I should wait till the Logi is clear before I warp the fleet
5. Depending on the fleet composition, its necessary to swap around the target order. To clarify if we are running a full, strong fleet, in a 5 romi spawn, ships with T1 weapons (like myself) should focus on the schmaels. But if we are running at or near minimums, everyone should go for the Romis in tagged order until they are culled to a manageable size

PS Vindis are awesome
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Cassiel Seraphim

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Post 2018.03.08 02:17

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Comeonnnnnn Sparassid wrote:But last night, I was given an impromptu opportunity to FC and I took it!
Good! Thanks for stepping up and learning something new.

Take the next part as constructive criticism, because that's how we learn. You're not expected to get it all right from the start, it's a learning process. So here's an improvement for next time :)

Comeonnnnnn Sparassid wrote:1. Almost broke rule 1 of incursions in an NMC (ore drop is what gives payout.... not dead rats...)
2. I can call for drones to be deployed, but I should probably deploy my drones as well
3. Figure out the Logi/Ore situation during the second wave of an NMC so that you don't waste time on the third wave
The first three can all be delegated. In fact, I highly recommend you delegate this when you start off. These are low priority things that have little to no impact on safetly, which should be the primary goal (to learn how to safely run the fleet). Efficiency and secondary objectives come later.

Delegate ore drops to the logistics. They can sort out who drops, who runs etc on their own. As for drones, delegate that to the boosterbunny, they can call for drones for you.

Comeonnnnnn Sparassid wrote:4. In an NMC, when a Logi is deploying ore, they can get caught between rocks, so I should wait till the Logi is clear before I warp the fleet
Yes, please continue doing this. Keep the fleet together, so that if a war target shows up you don't have some ahead, some behind etc. It also makes life a lot easier for the booster to ensure everyone gets timely boosts.


Comeonnnnnn Sparassid wrote:5. Depending on the fleet composition, its necessary to swap around the target order. To clarify if we are running a full, strong fleet, in a 5 romi spawn, ships with T1 weapons (like myself) should focus on the schmaels. But if we are running at or near minimums, everyone should go for the Romis in tagged order until they are culled to a manageable size
Since we're at war we cannot skip warp disrupt capable ships in favour of other ships, as that leaves us vulnerable and unable to leave the site as quickly as possible if a war target shows up (or any other reason for that matter, like tank not holding, disconnects or some other minor disaster). So in general, for us the golden rule is that we kill warp disrupt capable ships first and foremost, before moving on to other ships. There are some minor exceptions, like Niarjas (they jam and neut) and Mara (depending on fleet composition, some might kill the Mara first before moving onto the Schmaeels in NMCs).

Speaking of the NMC specifically, here's a screenshot of the official priority:

Image
(read more about the site on the Nation Mining Colony page)

So while there's room for flexible targeting amongst warp disrupt capable ships like Augas and Schmaeels, they should all die before anyone engages the Romis and Eysturs. And in this particular case, the Mara is a higher priority as it reps. There's a bit of a caveat for the Mara though, as it sits ~60km away and not everyone can effectively hit it. So people with range should be told to hit the Mara (then Schmaeels), while people with shorter range go straight for the Schmaeels.
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