New Incursion Runner Resources

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Yuki Tsuruomo

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Post 2014.06.29 09:26

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

Starcofski wrote:So, been a while since I posted in here, and I had a question:

Does/Has anyone considered "renting" out their incursion ships to newcomers (who might not be able to do the initial investment, or are unsure if they want to participate)?

My starter Hyperion is gathering dust, and I was thinking of offering it (with collateral) to any newcomers we might get that are on the fence about taking the plunge.

Is this a bad idea? I look at the cost of the starter ships and, unless you've been picketing or scouting for active fleets, it's unlikely you'll be able to put down all that money up front (or some pilots might not want to drop 300-400mil on a one-time thing, should they dislike it).

I think it's a great idea. If a newbro came on in incursions.e-uni or mumble and said "I have all the required skills to fly a Maelstrom but I don't have the ship yet (for whatever reason), can I loan one from somebody?" I would gladly give mine to him.

But that basically never happens. I guess part of this is beacause this loaning isn't openly advertised anywhere (as far as I'm aware of). Question is if we should change this, I can see the good (getting new pilots into incursions faster) while the bad (it might deter new pilots from buying a ship altogether) is negligible imo. Another part is that by the time a new pilot has trained all the relevant skills he usually managed to scrap enough ISK together for a ship, so the demand for such a service might be very small.
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Cassiel Seraphim

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Post 2014.06.29 10:57

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

I like the idea in theory, just have trouble seeing it realized ...

If you wanted to publicly make this a thing, someone or a group of people would have to make sure every single recon will a) have one of each ship readily available and b) someone online 24/7 to lend them out. Otherwise you'd run into issues where people show up, ask for a ship and there's no ship or nobody to give them a ship. Which would be counter productive and probably piss more people off than it would garner interest.

Did you have a good idea to work around those issues to make it work?
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Ichi Miike

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Post 2014.06.29 11:29

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

Though you do have a point Cassiel, I don't think things have to perfect all the time, this is a game after all. People could ask if a ship they can fly is available at the focus beforehand or maybe someone in chat has a valet alt that can move the ship on demand.
I don't think we need a perfect working program. We could start a program like that more low-level. Any idea and new effort will drown if you set expectations too high in the beginning.
So, if we just have a list of people who are willing to lend/loan out ships to newbies, that would be a step forward from now. We can cancel it if it doesn't work out at all or on the other hand improve from there.
Just my 2 cents.
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Cassiel Seraphim

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Post 2014.06.29 11:47

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

There's a difference in individuals doing something and promoting a program though. Perhaps I misread the suggestion.

If individuals want to announce that they will lug around <insert ship here> that can work, sure. A little like the perfect refine list we used to have for miners.
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Starcofski

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Post 2014.06.29 21:01

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

Cassiel Seraphim wrote:There's a difference in individuals doing something and promoting a program though. Perhaps I misread the suggestion.

If individuals want to announce that they will lug around <insert ship here> that can work, sure. A little like the perfect refine list we used to have for miners.


Unfortunately both of my OOC alts are under war, so I cannot currently make the offer (and it needs to be re-fit for some modules), but my theory for removing the always-online part would be courier contracting (with no reward, but a suitable collateral) between two stations (if possible) in the focus.

The possible downsides of this: a unista can "rent" the ship for an entire week or day, and if they forget to deliver the contract, they lose the collateral (in essence buying the ship). Or, if the ship gets blown up, they lose the collateral (which is even worse).

So things to work out would be: Which ships would we offer, How much collateral should we use, how long should the loan periods be, and should there be any restrictions on the loans (Freshman and above only, must have a conversation before hand, etc)?
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Chuck Maverick

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Post 2014.06.30 10:35

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

Starcofski wrote:
Cassiel Seraphim wrote:There's a difference in individuals doing something and promoting a program though. Perhaps I misread the suggestion.

If individuals want to announce that they will lug around <insert ship here> that can work, sure. A little like the perfect refine list we used to have for miners.


Unfortunately both of my OOC alts are under war, so I cannot currently make the offer (and it needs to be re-fit for some modules), but my theory for removing the always-online part would be courier contracting (with no reward, but a suitable collateral) between two stations (if possible) in the focus.

The possible downsides of this: a unista can "rent" the ship for an entire week or day, and if they forget to deliver the contract, they lose the collateral (in essence buying the ship). Or, if the ship gets blown up, they lose the collateral (which is even worse).

So things to work out would be: Which ships would we offer, How much collateral should we use, how long should the loan periods be, and should there be any restrictions on the loans (Freshman and above only, must have a conversation before hand, etc)?

If the collateral is less than the value of the ship, some random person will accept and fail the contract to sell the ship for a profit; if the collateral is more than the value of the ship, they may as well just buy the ship they want in the first place.
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Starcofski

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Post 2014.07.01 04:42

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

Chuck Maverick wrote:
Starcofski wrote:
Cassiel Seraphim wrote:There's a difference in individuals doing something and promoting a program though. Perhaps I misread the suggestion.

If individuals want to announce that they will lug around <insert ship here> that can work, sure. A little like the perfect refine list we used to have for miners.


Unfortunately both of my OOC alts are under war, so I cannot currently make the offer (and it needs to be re-fit for some modules), but my theory for removing the always-online part would be courier contracting (with no reward, but a suitable collateral) between two stations (if possible) in the focus.

The possible downsides of this: a unista can "rent" the ship for an entire week or day, and if they forget to deliver the contract, they lose the collateral (in essence buying the ship). Or, if the ship gets blown up, they lose the collateral (which is even worse).

So things to work out would be: Which ships would we offer, How much collateral should we use, how long should the loan periods be, and should there be any restrictions on the loans (Freshman and above only, must have a conversation before hand, etc)?

If the collateral is less than the value of the ship, some random person will accept and fail the contract to sell the ship for a profit; if the collateral is more than the value of the ship, they may as well just buy the ship they want in the first place.

Keeping collateral at the value of the ship falls under the second category as well, however the contract would be Uni-only (and possibly have a title requirement). I would probably set the minimum (for me) as Sophmore, with a short interview.

As I said, my goal is to get new faces flying with us, but I would not expect the Uni to fund replacement ships, thus collateral has to be (at minimum) current market value. While this doesn't help people who can't afford the ships, it can help those who are still saving a buffer (fly only what you can replace). It's limited in scope, but given the nature of this activity I do not expect others to just offer up free battleships.

If it came to it, I could institute a rental fee (1mil per day or something), to build up for a second, or backup funds in case it goes pop. Which reminds me, if I contract out a ship, and the other pilot flying it gets blown up, does he get the insurance or do I?
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Cassiel Seraphim

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Post 2014.07.01 05:59

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

Perhaps this discussion should be moved to a different thread for now. At least until you've ironed out the details for your new service.
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Titus Tallang

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Post 2014.07.01 09:08

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

You can't have a title requirement on a contract.
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Agt Dunham

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Post 2014.07.09 16:39

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

I have a question is it better to run incursions with shields or Armor? and how much does one make in a couple of hours of Incursion running?
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Tamino Giardina

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Post 2014.07.09 17:13

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

I don't know what is better, Shields or armor, as the Uni only runs Shield fleets, but, from what I hear in Mumble, Shield seens to be best, however, someone with more knowledge will be able to answer this question with more details.
As for how much you do, in the Uni we usually run Vanguard sites, each site takes 6 to 9 minutes to do (depending on the fleet, if it's shiny, if it's full, etc), and everyone on grid gains 10M isk per site (minus tips for the offgrid people, it is not required, but really apreciated) , for exemple, on 2014/07/06 I completed the first site 18:57:05, and finished running at 19:59:40, running 10 sites total, so I made almost 100M in an hour, but, that's only the running time, before that a fleet have to form, or wait in the waitlist to be called, but, overall, you can make good Money running incursions...
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Titus Tallang

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Post 2014.07.09 17:14

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

Short answer: Shield. Long answer: Refer to this wiki page.

PS: Sites take between 6 and 10 minutes with typical UNI fleet. Payout is ~10 million ISK per site.
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Maximus Kaundur

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Post 2014.07.09 18:09

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

Titus Tallang wrote:Short answer: Shield. Long answer: Refer to this wiki page.

PS: Sites take between 6 and 10 minutes with typical UNI fleet. Payout is ~10 million ISK per site.


Each fleet member also gets LP's too right? Does that add a significant amount to the isk per site on average?
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Tamino Giardina

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Post 2014.07.09 18:29

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

yess, you get 1295 LP (full fleet) or 1400 LP (missing 1 member) for each site, and it's possible to sell those around 1000 isk/lp at some channels...or you can save then and buy some implants (I bought the +4 ones...)
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Agt Dunham

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Post 2014.07.10 16:29

Re: New Incursion Runner Resources

Tamino Giardina wrote:I don't know what is better, Shields or armor, as the Uni only runs Shield fleets, but, from what I hear in Mumble, Shield seens to be best, however, someone with more knowledge will be able to answer this question with more details.
As for how much you do, in the Uni we usually run Vanguard sites, each site takes 6 to 9 minutes to do (depending on the fleet, if it's shiny, if it's full, etc), and everyone on grid gains 10M isk per site (minus tips for the offgrid people, it is not required, but really apreciated) , for exemple, on 2014/07/06 I completed the first site 18:57:05, and finished running at 19:59:40, running 10 sites total, so I made almost 100M in an hour, but, that's only the running time, before that a fleet have to form, or wait in the waitlist to be called, but, overall, you can make good Money running incursions...


Thanks to all for the info.
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