[Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread [updated!]

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White 0rchid

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Post 2017.06.08 11:18

Re: [Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread

I had this big response typed out then I realised you were talking about high sec and not lowsec so yeah.

I'm only posting because I felt I dedicated enough time into it that to not post anything would be a waste.

Anyway, if anyone at some point wishes to do anything regarding lowsec incursions then feel free to hit me up and I'm sure we can arrange something.
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K950

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Post 2017.06.08 13:46

Re: [Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread

I was asked by someone I know if I would be interested in a lowsec VG group using less expensive hulls and going around PvP fit.

My interest level is high in that subject. There's nothing quite like fighting NPCs and player spawns at the same time.
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Cassiel Seraphim

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Post 2017.06.10 02:07

Re: [Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread

I've asked K950 to do a little bit more planning and preparing to reschedule this as an event that's only for a day for starters. If the event turns out fine, we can discuss a longer type of event, like he initially wanted.

The reason for this is that these kind of events, especially if they are to be done in a different doctrine than usual and last for a full focus, requires a lot of planning and concept proofing as well as ensuring that there will be people there to fill the required fleet roles. Otherwise, you risk ending up with a lot of people wasting time and ISK to buy and train into a new ship, only to fail to deliver actual fleets. On top of that, you effectively bench the normal community in the process. I'm sorry I didn't take this stance sooner, it might have made this a little bit easier.

Either way, instead of the next focus near Amarr being armour, wait for a properly scheduled event for an armour fleet in the near future.

Feel free to use this thread to continue ironing out the details.
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Stasia Ohau

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Post 2017.06.10 04:02

Re: [Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread

(meant to post as Margeux, oh well :D)

I'm interested in running low-sec incursions. I see the high-sec armor fleet as a way to work out some of the wrinkles before diving into a format that mixes high risk PVE with PVP.

That said, as a new-ish player I'm still working on filling out some of my incursion skills (T2 projectile and hybrid) and training into some stuff to do when not incursioning (bombers!). That's mostly a long winded way of saying it'll be a couple months before I can commit to an armor fleet but I'm certainly going to fit that in ASAP.
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Ulrik Elristan

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Post 2017.06.11 05:07

Re: [Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread

As a bonus to lowsec incursions, using your main doesn't pose nearly as much of an issue as in highsec :smug:

(actually : pretty much none at all)
“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win” - Sun Tzu.


May enter novel-writing mode at any time. Beware of the walls of text !
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K950

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Post 2017.06.14 00:19

Re: [Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread

ViulfR DeWolf wrote:When you talk about command ships do you mean modules on battleships or full on command battle cruisers? I have a Sleipnir I could armor fit and and 37 days train away from fleet command. Depending on how much time between now and the armor fleet it might be possible to train gallante or amarr BC to 5 (21 days) for a better armor fit command BC.


We require Tech II Command Ships because the links command bursts on Tech I combat battlecruisers aren't bonused, so they're not as effective enough to meet our requirements. The Gallente lineage is typically used for Armor incursion fleet boosters.

We're getting ready to move guys!
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Cassiel Seraphim

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Post 2017.06.14 06:16

Re: [Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread

K950 wrote:As a matter of course, the Caldari and Minmatar tech I battleships are going to have to wait this one out.
This needs updating, as you've added a Tempest (which is Minmatar).

K950 wrote:The Eos will be our preferred booster hull ...
Out of curiosity, what benefit do you see of the Eos over the Astarte?

Also, remember that the Eos' heavy drone bonus means heavy drones end up having better tracking compared to medium drones.

K950 wrote:The Nightmare. If you have Tech II guns, they may be easily squeezed in. Bring the usual crystals: Multifrequency, Gleam if you can use it well, Gamma. Some people like Xray for hitting the Mara in NMCs.
  Code:
[Nightmare, Nightmare - Armor No Prop Tachyon Beams VG 9E98]

Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Target Painter II
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large Solace Scoped Remote Armor Repairer
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Anti-Explosive Pump I
Large Energy Burst Aerator II
[Empty Rig slot]


Acolyte II x5
Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I x4
Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x1
Second sensor booster isn't usefull in non-competition fleets, re-quoting myself again:
Cassiel Seraphim wrote:No more than one sensor booster and it should be a scan resolution script, not targeting range. Unless you're competing and need to shoot before the other guy, the second sensor booster is a wasted midslot on that Nightmare that should be replaced by just about anything else.

K950 wrote:The Oneiros is the preferred vessel to be used for logistics vessels. A lot of people can fly Guardians so that is an option as well. If you have better skills, upgrade the reppers to T2, drop the cap recharger for another remote tracking link, and with top skills, drop the cap battery for yet another tracking link.
  Code:
[Oneiros, Oneiros - Armor AB 4L 3 Link Logi IV VG 9E98]

Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpum C-Type Energized Explosive Membrane
800mm Steel Plates II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Medium Cap Battery II
Cap Recharger II
Shadow Serpentis Remote Tracking Computer

Large Solace Scoped Remote Armor Repairer
Large Solace Scoped Remote Armor Repairer
Large Solace Scoped Remote Armor Repairer
Large Solace Scoped Remote Armor Repairer

Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II


Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I x5
You're still putting emphasis on remote tracking computers over tech two repairers for your logistics IV fit. The primary function of a logistics ship is to repair other ships, and there's no reason to sacrifice tech two repairers on an Oneiros in favour of a link. There are also other issues with that fit in particular I've already mentioned, so I'll just re-quote myself:
Cassiel Seraphim wrote:Starter fit for Oneiros:
Your fit isn't cap stable for a budding logistics pilot. Seems like you might have done the classic mistake of just using an All V character and bumping logistics down to IV ... which assumes you have all other skills at V, which most logistics IV pilots won't have. I suggest something like this instead:
  Code:
[Oneiros, Incursions (starter fit - logistics IV)]

Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
800mm Steel Plates II

10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II

Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II


Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I x5
Note that there's no explosive membrane, because the Oneiros have the signature of a fly and mitigates a ton of damage from the torpedoes that do explosive and kinetic damage, plus the extremely high kinetic resistance help level out the damage as well. This way you get increased thermal and EM resists, which helps against the weapons they take the most damage from, turrets.

K950 wrote:For the sake of completion, we have to have a Guardian fit here. A Guardian will need a capacitor partner, but given the importance of the logistics vessel, I would highly recommend two partners, one on standby in case the primary one gets jammed. If you have Logi IV, you will need 2 cap partners.
Whenever you fly with logistics needing a cap chain, you should always have a backup or two (dps boats with utility highs) in case of an emergency.

K950 wrote:This fit is adapted from PvP fits and thus can be rather tight to fit. The good news is afterwards you can swap out the afterburner and drop in a sensor booster and you have an instant 70k EHP standard Guardian.
It's generally a bad idea mixing PvP and PvE ships. You should buy and properly fit two different ships.

Either way, your current fit sacrifices a lot of repping power to keep the PvP-rigs intact. The medium C-types have but ~62% of the repping power of the proper tech two repairers. Overall it's ~19% repping power you're losing. That's hardly ideal. I'd recommend dropping the plate to an 800mm plate before dropping the repping power, or better yet, bring a properly fit PvE-guardian so you don't have to compromise at all.
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K950

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Post 2017.06.14 15:48

Re: [Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread [updated!]

The Eos is preferable because the primary damage of the Astarte is gunnery, which will be reduced by reason of the space occupied by the 4 links. 4 links require 2 Command Processor rigs which mean no damage rigs or tank rigs, therefore lowslots must be devoted to tank and utility. The primary purpose of the booster is to stay alive and provide links: damage is a bonus.

Two sensor boosters with scan resolution scripts: I like the concept especially with a 1400mm Mach, but I don't generally do it because of the reduced midslots on the Mach available for EWAR options. I will update to include a note about flexibility concerning midslots.

Logi fits being updated shortly.

Apparently K-Space Guardians from compentent groups are fit with ACR/TAP, not 2x ACR like wormhole groups. Without going into debate about which set up is better, I will presume to use the ACR/TAP version because of its applicability to a wider variety of engagements.
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Grune Jaeger

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Post 2017.06.14 16:51

Re: [Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread [updated!]

When I put together fits for Astarte and Eos in Pyfa, my Astarte came out with about 350 dps and the Eos about 200-250 on my booster pilot. Tank was similar (I think Astarte was a little tankier?). Both have as many armor EHP as my Sleipnir has shield EHP. Boosting ability was the same. My booster pilot will bring an Astarte.

As far as logi, my personal preference is going to be Oneiros. Enough rep power to fill the logi role and 3 or 4 remote tracking links to benefit the armor ships that might not be as shiny as the shield fits we are used to flying. Those who want to fly Nestor or Guardian, well, that's your preference.

I'll also have a nightmare ready in case i'm not needed as booster or logi.
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K950

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Post 2017.06.15 00:56

Re: [Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread [updated!]

Thanks so much Grune.

An Astarte is fine, I foresee no issues with it. That makes 2 booster pilots on our roster.

Next is two guaranteed logi pilots. I can fly both the Oneiros and the Guardian with Logi V, however will be using my Nestor. As far as I can tell this is going to be a US fleet at first. I haven't been able to contact any EU based boosters.
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K950

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Post 2017.06.21 03:33

Re: [Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread [updated!]

So I'm hoping that some of you who wanted to come along for this event have found time to finish training some critical skills in armor to make your ship more effective.

"When are we going to do it?" Well because of the highly specific nature of this fleet we have to wait until a focus is available on a Saturday. No new focus mails have gone out yet so we'll still watching. I'm watching this Saturday pretty closely.

Stay tuned.
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K950

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Post 2017.06.23 13:52

Re: [Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread [updated!]

Well I think we have a new focus that should last through the weekend.

I sent out a mail to the mailing list to advertise it. I'll sent out a Slack ping as well, a calendar event AND a post here. Should be enough exposure. Not everybody is on the mailing list so I'll copy it here.

Greetings all,

We have a new focus which should survive the next two or three days.

The first armor fleet will commence formup at 00:00 hours on Sunday the 25th (EVE time).

While I would be greatly enthused by an earlier timeframe, I must work a late shift and thus unable to be present for it. Time is a bit short so we must make haste to the new focus to make the most of it!

As before, this thread https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 2&t=104754 has all the details you will need for ship fitting.

Hope to see you all there!

K950

P.S. If you do not normally run incursions and require your ship to be moved on an OOC alt let me know, or send a mail to this mailing list.
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Grune Jaeger

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Post 2017.06.26 00:52

Re: [Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread [updated!]

Some results from first run on Sunday at 00:00 game time (that means, saturday night at midnight for euros, saturday evening for US TZ fliers):
  • First site completed at 02:00 after a lot of jockeying to get ships re-rigged and re-equipped because everyone didn't plan ahead.
  • 22 sites run.
  • Only one pilot x'd up as booster. So, I got to fly a pretty over tanked Astarte (helped when i got initial agro on half the sites.) Renamed my ship "Booster Bait" .
  • Only one pilot x'd up as logi until the very end. So, not only an armor fleet, but a solo logi armor fleet.
  • Between 5 and 8 or 9 DD (not counting booster). Pretty much all vindicators and nightmares.
  • Seeing multiple fleet members with no shields is pretty unsettling.
2017.06.25.02.06.05.png
Fleet on last Romi in 2nd site.
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Grune Jaeger

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Post 2017.06.26 03:17

Re: [Fleet] 9E98 ARMOR Incursion Fleet Set up Thread [updated!]

2nd day:
  • First site completed at 01:49.
  • 4 sites run.
  • 2 logi (oneiros/nestor), 1 astarte, 2 vindicator, 2 nightmare, 1 mega.
  • logi seemed to be bored, and sites ran pretty slowly.
  • one dd left, and the oneiros. nestor couldn't solo logi even thought more DD x'd up. Basically, had to fold due to lack of logi.
2017.06.26.01.50.08.png
leaving 1st site, heading for 2nd.
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