State of the Incursion Community

Forum rules
This forum can be viewed by the public.
<<

Cassiel Seraphim

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.11.25 10:12

State of the Incursion Community

We had a meeting recently about The future of the EVE University Incursion Community ... which led to this post. I had a good idea about what and how to say in the end, but the more I edit this thing the worse it becomes. So before it becomes completely unreadable and unintelligible I'm going to post it. If you were at the meeting and find something important missing then by all means add it.

Current state of the community:

To put it bluntly, we've lost all core content creators and most of the leadership. I'm not trying to diminish the wonderful efforts made by people, but we currently have no content creators and with me stepping down and Kale busy, no real leadership. We still have members though, with experience and knowledge. So if we get a new and driven manager and a couple of volunteers to put in some effort, there's every reason to think we can recover from this.

If I were to make a poor attempt at a military analogy, I would say that we've still got some soldiers, but we need a commander and a couple of officers to rally them and put them to good use. Or, in a bee-analogy, we got a small swarm of bees still but are in desperate need of a new queen :)


Immediate needs:

The community needs a new manager and that manager will need volunteers to start shaping the new community in the direction of their choosing. Interest in stepping up for the management position should go to Titus Tallang, as the Director of Special Projects for Incursions, so we can get a new manager approved. He can be contacted ingame, through forum private messages or through any Slack you can find his name in (he's in most of them).

We also need a fresh new group of content creators who can band together and shoulder the burden of creating content. Anyone wanting to help, but not able to tackle the role of manager or main content creator, contact the people you see do things and ask if there's anything you could help them with. It can be anything from doing minor tasks for them to make their lives a little easier to stepping up right next to them and share the workload. Every little bit helps and the more people we get who volunteer to help the smaller the risk of burnout becomes.

In the meantime, we also need to get back to running. We discussed what method we thought would have the highest chance of success moving forward. Consistency is currently the more pressing matter, over frequency. It's more important that we start deliver a fleet when calling for one, than it is to run every single day. We also concluded that weekends would have the highest chance at success, as we could pull from more timezones, and to keep the scope small.

Min Nashira and John Parmelee stepped up for an initial Saturday evening weekend fleet and I will do what I can help them facilitate this for now. Several people offered to show up for that fleet to help bolster the numbers. The idea is to regroup and facilitate one day a week that we run, then slowly rebuild from there. Practically it means that for now we won't move continuously, but rather pick a focus on Thursday/Friday for the purpose of the Saturday fleet. We'll also be doing this a lot more visibly than before, with calendar entries and posts in the events section of the forum to increase our reach. This will add some extra things to deal with, but we're hoping it'll even out in our favour despite some known issues of this kind of broad promotional approach.

Since we're rebuilding momentum from scratch, it might take a while to get back up and running and every single person who could show up, even if it's just for an hour, would be extremely valuable.


Long term needs:

Building up momentum and getting fleets again is both a short term goal and a long term goal. In order to get the most out of classes, you'll need fleets in and around classes to help retain the interest built up by classes. You'll also need a healthy stream of new players in order to get enough people to counter the natural loss of older players eventually leaving the community, not to mention the critical volunteers and content creators who'll burn out on a regular basis. All this is significantly easier to do the more fleets and activities you have going on, so the long term goal is to get back to constantly moving and running. But consistency first, frequency later.


Challenges we're facing:

Our size is a constant challenge, since we're a small group within a single corporation. We're a corporation with a very high turnover rate, where people don't stay for too long. We're also at war, most of the time. And even though we allow alts and ex-unistas to join us, that group is relatively small due to the competition with the public communities who can offer their members more fleets and more ISK/hour. While we can pride ourselves with having a really good atmosphere with a friendly and supportive culture, that is unfortunately about the only thing we can offer that could match or surpass that of public communties. So while we should always strive to keep that, it doesn't allow for that big of a pool of players to pull from.

We're also in direct competition with other activities like ratting in null, Abyssal Deadspace, missioning etc. Getting ISK has become a lot more accessible in a lot of ways and it's harder and harder to warrant putting in the effort of doing incursions, if your sole reason for doing it is to get ISK. So while there's still a lot of benefits to doing incursions, we've lost a lot of people to other ISK-generating activities that previously flew with us.

Unlike a lot of other activities, where you can easily find something relevant to do regardless of how many people you have, we don't have anything to offer in terms of incursions for smaller groups of people. Scout sites aren't an option, so if we don't get enough people for vanguards we just don't have anything incursion-related to do. So we don't benefit from the continuous interactions other campuses would have. Most people who do incursions tend to live in a campus or does something else as their main activity in EVE. In the past we've tried exploring and missioning as ways to keep members around and interacting, but it has not proven to be a good enough method. Maybe the new frigate group content in Abyssal Deadspace could help fill the void in between fleets, to some degree, but that would require effort by someone to coordinate.

We will also need more visibility within EVE University. There are still a lot of members who are completely unaware that we exist. On top of that we'll need to do more aggressive recruiting and promoting than we've done in the past, which will also give us other challenges. For example, scheduling our fleets on the calendar and through events always did bring more people to the fleet, but it usually brought a considerable portion of people who couldn't immediately jump into any of the ongrid roles. Even when we were extremely generous with extra pickets and scouts we often had people in excess to whom we had little to offer in terms of gameplay. You'd also need someone around to welcome and talk to new players, because while it's certainly possible to chat while running, it's a lot more hectic while trying to form up and ensure everyone's in the right ships and all the roles are filled etc. But if we can find some way to turn everyday running into an event and make it a worthwhile or at least a pleasant experience for people to just show up and talk to us ... then we'd have much to gain there. Historically we've easily managed if a couple of people show up out of nowhere, but anything more than that and we run out of useful things for them to do.

Then we have the eternal question of how to get more volunteers, how to get more people to do the things that's needed. It's hard to incentivise things and get good results without some people showing up just to claim the proverbial carrots. There's also the issue of perception and expectations. If the perception isn't matching reality, then either the perception needs to be changed or we need to change things to match their expectations.

Either way, these are important factors to consider, as they make it different and in many ways harder to recruit or encourage people to step up.
<<

Matt Mustang

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.11.26 03:31

Re: State of the Incursion Community

As usual my slow bum is a little late, I missed the meeting and hardly bothered to read the text walls on the previous posts. Despite this I've been meaning to make a return to EVE for a while now so starting this week I will be forming fleets every Thursday around 1800 CST. This should roughly equate to Thursday 2300 EVE. I'm sure someone will let me know if I'm off on the time.

If we don't have a focus I'll send a mail 24hrs prior with a focus, unfortunately due to other commitments I won't have much other free time to do fleets. I would love if others would join me in picking a day of the week they can fleet-up and run for an hour or two that would be great, as for leadership as long as we have someone with the proper in-game permissions monitoring the #need-a-staffer I don't see much need for a Coordinator in the short term.
Image


ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

ImageImageImageImage
<<

Cassiel Seraphim

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.11.26 07:19

Re: State of the Incursion Community

I will stay on doing the administrative part until we've gotten a new manager, assuming it doesn't take too long. The need for a new manager is mostly to help consolidate the effort of volunteers who show up to help, so as to make the most out of the help that is offered.

Also note that the #need-a-staffer pings all uni staffers that are on our incursion slack. It's something we use for disruptive people in chat who needs a mute or a ban, or time-critical stuff like that. Haven't really seen us needing to use that for incursion-specific things and most of the incursion-related things that ended up there should have been a simple message to me instead :)
<<

Junmei Hucel-Ge

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.11.26 16:15

Re: State of the Incursion Community

First thank you Cassiel and all the other incursion members for all the content you HAVE provided and for your management. I apologize for not making the meeting but was travelling overseas and simply could not. As a super-junior member of incursions I've participated mostly in scouting and picketing. I've found the incursion community fun and as such have been building my skills up to the point where I could fly a big-boy ship to incursion parties. I finally got there, and went to go back to scouting/picketing to pick up some dosh to buy a ship when lo and behold I found that incursion fleets were running few and far between and usually when I couldn't participate because of work/timezones/ etc. I get it. There's a lot of new content in the form of all the new EVE stuff and much of it is PVE so those who have been tauma, auga, deltolding for time on end want to move on to more exciting and profitable endeavors. Such is the generation of online games and organizations. If you force people into one position for too long it gets boring - time to move on.

I wish I could help more in the area of administration and organizing events but I've been down that road before in an online game and it literally ended with me in the hospital from exhaustion. I am still running a real life company and it consumes a LOT of my time. So I really cannot take on an admin role, and I apologize for that. Maybe once I'm retired and not running a business IRL I can do so. That said I'm very willing to participate as much as I can in my role that I've been in so far (Picket/Scout). I've been moving a clone and scout ship around with the focal points in an effort to be there so that if my free time DOES sync up I'll be able to help - alas that hasn't worked out so far since I think June or July which was my last picket/scout gig.

I think the biggest thing for making this happen (And this comes from my former background running other online gigs" is predictability. The easier it is to pre-schedule content participation the more likely people are to show up. An event in the event calendar, an announcement on the forums, a ping on slack, and an email to the community when an event is upcoming with at least 48 hours notice will get a better turnout, with at least 2 warnings the day of the event. Keep time zones in mind when doing so.

The second most important is recruiting. I was super impressed with the incursion community when I joined it. You had a clear role for beginners with some pretty breathtaking profit from an ISK point of view, and an excellent training program to make sure newbies got up and running. The ship required was available free through the freshman inventory program and the skill training required was minimal. Furthermore one learns the rhythm and patterns to an encounter (even if you're not "there" for it) so you have an idea of what to expect when you graduate to big-boy ships by listening in on the comms. After listening in I desired to be a more active team member and it gave me the impetus to train up in the skills required to do so. I got lots of help from people along the way. The key to recruiting though is to literally treat it as a sales effort - letting newbies know on initiation what Incursion is all about, why they'd want to participate, what is in it for them, giving them a taste etc.

So all that said, if I CAN participate I will, and I am happy to help unofficially to do things that I can. I just wish I had more time IRL.


Cheers,
Junmei Hucel-Ge
<<

Jonathan Wolf

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.11.26 20:46

Re: State of the Incursion Community

I couldn't attend to discussion, i have a busy month and my general activity in eve has dropped. But i have an idea. The biggest problem for me when i was joining community was ship price. But since then we have a new cheap battleship on market-a Praxis! It's going under 100 mil isk on the market. So if we can make some begginer fit for Praxis, we should have no problem in getting new people on grid-100 mil can be quickly gained from PI or mission running.
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
Image
<<

Cassiel Seraphim

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.11.26 22:28

Re: State of the Incursion Community

If ISK is an issue while training skills you can easily make more than enough money being a picket while training. Lots of people have done that and they've easily earned more than enough to buy their first ship by the time they've finished training.

As for the Praxis itself, it has some issues that it just cannot fix. It'll lack on either range, damage, tracking or cap no matter what you try to do with it. So we haven't adopted the Praxis into the minimum ship lineup, but stuck with the Hyperion, Maelstrom and Rokh.
<<

Zeerse Solaris

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.12.04 14:57

Re: State of the Incursion Community

I also missed the meeting and will try to put a concise rely to how I think it could be run, which is mostly what I wanted the meeting to achieve but with the lack of volunteers to take over from Cass, probably couldn't have taken place.

Foci Selection: Ignore the out of the way ones. Keep ones close to HSC, AMC and Soli so that pickets and scout recruitment is more likely. yes that may mean gaps between fleets but that's better than some people moving and getting fed up when a fleet can't form.

X-up. Let the FC or form up person approve fits. My first x-up after a hiatus was made pretty painful by Logan who was in neither of those positions, questioning my fit while obviously not knowing the minimum requirements for tank, and could only throw wiki links at me, it was so poor I nearly withdrew and went off to do something else, probably new players would have. Any commentary needs to useful and based on knowledge.

Classes + fleets: I ran an incursion class, the first for a long while and there were so many old bros in there, I guess out of interest, and to be a little supportive, that it was impossible to determine who was genuinely there to learn. Having a back up person to answer is ok, multiple people answering queries in chat when they can be used by the teacher to discuss and respond is detracting. And we need someone (not the teacher) to run a fleet immediately afterwards.

Campuses and ships: use the campus infrastructure, they could hold a stock of t1 newb friendly incurision ships to hand out as loaners.

Do something else while forming, run some L4s while you're waiting if you have the pickets in place, if it's close to campus as above someone probably has the standings. At least something is happening, some isk is being made etc.

Incursion campus vs independent. I think other than some of the above making it a requirement for it to be a uni member with sufficient rights for hangar access. I am not sure this is important, but I would consider EU and USTZ form up 'officers' something that's needed currently, but that shouldn't prevent anyone else from doing it.

I hope the community can continue, most of the proactive leadership type people are already tied into campus staff. Be great if someone new emerges.

I suspect a downturn might be as people run abyssal sites, because you don't need to wait for others etc and theres a lot of skill crossover on tank and weapons.
E-uni Teacher:: Apply to be a teacher
E-uni Mentor: Apply to be a mentor
<<

llanok Achasse

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2018.12.11 02:42

Re: State of the Incursion Community

Cassiel Seraphim wrote:We will also need more visibility within EVE University. There are still a lot of members who are completely unaware that we exist.


This discussion appears to be actually doing that...a bit. I've seen more mentions of incursions in HSC chat the past few days than in the several months.

It also got my interest. I remember looking into the incursion community when I first joined HSC, but the minimum requirements were impossibly high at the time. After reading these threads I checked again, and I am now less than a 1-week train from being able to fly an incursion-fit Hyperion.

Hopefully I can come out and join y'all soon (although being in the US west coast time slot, E-Uni is mostly all dormant during my normal availability).

Return to Incursions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Powered by Dediserve