What I Learned Today in Incursions

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Cassiel Seraphim

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Post 2017.06.05 14:59

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Rustled Jimmy wrote:... but if I ever do leave E-Uni in the future I'd hope I'd still be able to run with the E-Uni incursion community.
You will, we are open to unistas and alumni alike, including their alts.
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Rustled Jimmy

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Post 2017.06.06 22:19

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

So today I learned what should really be quite basic but unfortunately I didn't follow. When you feel like you won't be able to fulfill your duties mentally or physically then tap out don't just try to push through it.

This is in regards to the USTZ fleet last night, I was the picket for one system and while the fleet was going on I was feeling increasingly ill. I did make the FC aware and stated that I would like to swap out however when I heard that the fleet was only going to run for another 20 minutes anyway I decided to stay on and just push through for another 20 minutes. This was a mistake which I greatly regret as I did indeed become ill during that time and could not fulfill my duties as picket for the last few sites the fleet ran. Though it was luck that there was no danger I cannot let this happen again, this is an underlying issue for myself and I know when I am near my limit, I should do what I originally wanted to do which was tap out rather than just trying to stay on. I've already apologised to the FC through EVEMail and to Cass, I apologise to everyone else who ran in that fleet as well. I hope this hasn't shaken any confidence in my ability to run picket as I will be sure to not allow this to happen again.
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Arbee Trage

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Post 2017.06.07 04:49

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

This is really What I learned in Incursions the last two days, which are also my first two Incursion experiences.

Day One (6/5/17) - I split time between Picket Duty and learning the Scout Role. This was also my 2nd Fleet action ever. I continued to learn how to take direction from an FC. To prep me for Picket duty, Logan gave me a refresher on recognizing War Targets. I didn't know it was important to announce -10 standing pilots to the fleet. It was also pointed out that a Picket must look for typical ganking ships, like Catalysts. I need to review all the types of ships used for ganking so that I'm able to warn the Incursion Fleet of possible problems headed their way.

As a Scout, I learned the entire role. I was flying the E-Uni Heron Incursion Scout fit, so fortunately, when the opportunity arose, I was able to assume the Scout role. Gaining experience hacking, entering sites safely, marking Zed OTA's, scanning for possible hostiles at new OTA's, and broadcasting align are all new "skills' I was able to learn and put into practice.

Day Two (6/6/17) - I played the role of Scout 100% of the time tonight. This gave me the opportunity to practice/reinforce new skills learned from Day one. I learned that there were other sites than OTA's; there were only 3 OTA's that spawned tonight, the rest being 9 NMC's. I learned how to sponge during two of the NMC's tonight. Possibly the most important lesson the Incursion Fleet learned tonight, as a whole, was how to extricate the group from a running incursion in the face of an announced War Target at one of the Picket systems. We did not leave the incursion site expeditiously. That could very well have jeopardized the entire fleet. Luckily, nothing bad resulted from the experience.

Both days I experienced how to be a functional member of an incursion fleet. Teamwork and communication, as one would expect, are very important.

Arbee Trage.
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Hespire Malneant

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Post 2017.06.07 20:33

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

A spacepriest is me!

Though my character is 4 years old, my logi experience has been limited to flying T1 armor logi a couple of times in lowsec roams, a long time back. Noticing that it can take time for fleets to get off the ground while logi is rounded up, I thought I would try to do something to make that less of a problem.

I finished up the minimum incursion logi train a couple of days ago, and last night was able to cadge the use of a Scimi (thanks Grune!) for the USTZ fleet. I had some trepidation about this, since it involves more than just ctrl-clicking and hitting F1, but somebody told me "it's no harder than security missions" so I thought I'd give it a whirl. And I learned some stuff! Here is an incomplete list:

  • It sucks when DD doesn't broadcast "In Position" when the rats go from red to yellow. Logibros, I promise to be less Bad about this myself going forward.
  • Did you know that if there are drones in the drone bay that you can't fly, the fitting window doesn't tell you that?
  • Having tunnel vision about whatever little thing you're thinking about is Bad. Like when you are trying to get close enough to loot the can of ore for an NMC site, and somebody goes to 50% shield because you weren't paying attention.
  • Not paying attention when the FC gives special warnings before taking the gate is also Bad. Like when the FC warns about the hard aggro switch that will occur a minute into the pre-spawned 5-Romi NMC that you're about to enter.
  • Flying logi is kind of cool, really, and I can't believe I waited this long to try it. It is a bit more complicated than the typical L4 mission though.

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Hespire Malneant

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Post 2017.06.13 18:30

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Got a firsthand lesson about PvP flag propagation last night. Which I'd read about, but of course thought "hmm OK that's an obscure corner case, move on to the next thing."

TIL don't pipe up "I can cap buddy the Nightmare!" until you check their Uni membership status.
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Lexara Ellecon

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Post 2017.06.18 13:00

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Yesterday I FC'ed the early fleet for 20 sth site and did the drunk fleet some stuff happened and some thoughts I want to share:

1) Lasers still confuses me I can't distinguish between long/short range or ammo and their T2 variants, and penalties and cap usage, tracking issues. Why can't everything be simple like the hybrids turrets.

2) Cap chain sucks when you have no neuting ships on-grid, figuring the cap chain making sure it's stable and safe and people don't forget to activating it and getting jams after seting it up is a pain in the behind for the FC especially if the logi is part of one (sorry basi pilots)

Combining 1 and 2

3) The Nightmare is an ugly ship, Nightmare pilots should feel bad about it and all of them should do drugs and get expansive heads to be cap stable with all the ISK you save not buying ammo. (I'm kidding but it's till an ugly ship)

4) More seriously though as an FC I will not make a Nightmare pilot undock to join a fleet in space before figuring out the cap chain; because we had to stay like 5 minutes on a gate figuring it out due to a bad call by me.

5) Is covered here https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 99#p867899

6) On the drunken fleet we had a Vindi heavy fleet (vinidis and 1 ac mach) and a long NMC wall so I finally got to try my t1 railguns
i- At first we didn't have enough links for everyone so let's just say the only thing I could hit was the Mara. and stuff as they were burning and occasionally a cruiser. I
was just wasting ammo; and I have a tracking rig installed (Large Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II)
ii- When we finally had links and I got tracking speed It was great I could almost hit everything even frigates as long as they don't get in less 10k range.
iii- I wouldn't bring the rails to a fleet unless we had no snipers and I got more tracking.
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Eulynn

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Post 2017.06.19 17:06

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

I learned that drunk fleet is really fun, even whilst not drunk.

I also learned Matt Mustang is a muppet, Rustled Jimmy is a strange man when he's sleep-deprived, and Kontxesi is a hero for putting up with all of our bullcrap in stride.

Great fun this weekend, can't wait for the next one.
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Lexara Ellecon

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Post 2017.06.19 17:49

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Yeah I forgot to mention that drunk fleets have greater *efficiency* than normal fleets.
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Stasia Ohau

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Post 2017.07.04 18:30

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Nanite Paste is magical stuff. Yes I could have found a citadel but I could take care of my heat damage in the warp between sites and I'm not going to sweat 50k.
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Cryptic Sharvas

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Post 2017.07.04 18:46

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

I've been on-grid 4 or 5 times now.

things I have learned:

1. I exit warp sooooooooo slowly. Every FC was calling for us to align the gate while I'm in warp still. Every "Battle ships take the gate" happened while my slow vindicator was slowly turning around.
2. I need to figure out a better way to remember what site I'm in. they are different and I know there is only 3 of them but keeping them straight as to which one I'm in is super important
3. I need to learn the secret vindi short range order
4. My web is only good for 18,250 KM I need to stop jamming the web button when things are too far away
5. Mustang fleets are interesting.
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Tansarii Kashada

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Post 2017.07.05 14:32

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

1. I exit warp sooooooooo slowly. Every FC was calling for us to align the gate while I'm in warp still. Every "Battle ships take the gate" happened while my slow vindicator was slowly turning around.


Train up Evasive Maneuvering. The bonus is that you also get a huge step closer to flying interceptors with that skill, and it also benefits every other ship you fly.

2. I need to figure out a better way to remember what site I'm in. they are different and I know there is only 3 of them but keeping them straight as to which one I'm in is super important


Look at the most recent 'align to' broadcast in your fleet history window. It will tell you where you are. Also, as you start to learn the different Sansha rats and waves - you will be able to tell from those as well.

3. I need to learn the secret vindi short range order


The short and long answer is 'it depends'. If the fleet only has a few vindis - it should be Niarjas (ALWAYS - even if you cant reach them),Tamas, Schmaeels, Renyns and everything else. With more vindis, one can take Schmaeels and Renyns, while the others work on Tamas. FC could even assign 1 to Eysturs after all the other frigates are down while the rest focus on cruisers. All kinda depends on fleet comp.

4. My web is only good for 18,250 KM I need to stop jamming the web button when things are too far away


Also remember to watch velocity. Vindis should spread their webs out across the frigates who are still fast movers. A high tide lifts all boats, or low velocity kills all frigates :).

5. Mustang fleets are interesting.


He is a special snowflake.
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Cassiel Seraphim

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Post 2017.07.05 16:33

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Tansarii Kashada wrote:
3. I need to learn the secret vindi short range order


The short and long answer is 'it depends'. If the fleet only has a few vindis - it should be Niarjas (ALWAYS - even if you cant reach them),Tamas, Schmaeels, Renyns and everything else. With more vindis, one can take Schmaeels and Renyns, while the others work on Tamas. FC could even assign 1 to Eysturs after all the other frigates are down while the rest focus on cruisers. All kinda depends on fleet comp.
In uni-fleets it's not quite that simple as we need to focus on warp disrupt capable ships first.

The most common scenarios where different ships shoot different things are these:

1) In almost all fleets and scenarios, everyone will start off by killing any Niarjas and then any Tamas on grid. The exception could be in a very Vindicator-heavy fleet doing NCO sites, then it might be worth looking into splitting the Vindicators a bit with some shooting Tamas, some Schmaeels (but never Renyns before the warp disrupt capable ships are dead).
2) Vindicators should focus on Schmaeels before Augas (because of their superior webs) and the rest of the fleet focuses on Augas before Schmaeels (as they apply better on Augas). That way we still focus on the warp disrupt capable ships, but still try to let people shoot what they are applying the most damage to. The key is to kill both Schmaeels and Augas before moving onto non-disrupt ships like Renyns, Romis and Eysturs.
3) Similarly to the above, Vindicators should focus on Renyns before Romis (because of their superior webs again) and the rest of the fleet focuses on Romis before Renyns.
4) Eysturs are almost always last to die. The only notable exception would be when you have just Romis and Eysturs left on the field. Pre-webbing Eysturs and killing them off when there's just one Romi left is an effective means to help trim the Romis initially while still allowing for the Eysturs to die before or at the same time as the last Romi.

This is a slight simplification of course, as there are some intricate range issues that might change a few things here (like low skilled, short range boats shooting Schmaeels too until the Augas get into range etc), but the key here is to remember our priorities; killing warp disrupt capable ships is always going to be our primary goal before trying to optimize individual ship's application.
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Grune Jaeger

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Post 2017.07.12 04:58

Niarjas Neut

Yea. We know Niarjas neut cap. They just usually die before getting in range to do so. I hadn't realize how much the neut.

Tonight, we entered a pre-loaded OTA just seconds before a competing fleet. Booster arrived in site first and drew agro. 3 Niarja spawn and fairly close due to the pre-load. FC called target priorities that excluded the Niarjas, so the drone bunny was jammed the entire first wave. The call was made for everyone to control their own drones because the drone bunny couldn't lock/agress anything to get the drones shooting.

The 3 Niarjas quickly neuted the Sleipnir down to only a sliver of cap. Shield tank didn't shut off - but it could well have if the AIF had cycled at the wrong time.

Finally, the Niarjas were killed (2nd wave spawned and everyone decided to shoot them because they were closer than the new spawns). Booster spent most of the rest of the site attacking Eysturs because they were close enough for the drones to get to them quickly and apply some damage.

We lost the contest.
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Logan Zauber

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Post 2017.07.15 03:40

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

Err.. sorry about that! That one is on me.

Paying more attention to trying to win the contest than keeping you safe. Grr. I won't forget, next time.
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Kontxesi Buchanan

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Post 2017.08.06 14:21

Re: What I Learned Today in Incursions

This week I took the plunge (or got pushed off the edge, really) and started FCing incursions fleets.

2200 Wednesday for 38 sites (over 6 hours, including the breaks; filling the on-grid slots took a full 5 seconds from posting the ad!)

1930 Friday for 16 sites

0200 Friday Saturday for 22 sites


The feedback has been overwhelmingly positive, about which I am tickled. But here are the things that I can tell I'll need to work on:

- requiring pilots who are entering late to say that they have phenomena before giving them a green gate. Many have just been asking for gate status and I let them in without correcting them. (I do check for their ship on D-scan first, so I know they aren't warping to their death. But still.)

- knowing who is in Uni and who isn't when the fleet forms, and when we have personnel changes, so I already know if we have a war target situation

- I need to memorize what ships are in what waves, because I have a hard time reading my overview quickly to see what ships are there for my call

- It was a source of amusement more than confusion with our experienced fleets, but what comes out of my mouth is not always what my brain sent. I call ships that aren't on grid, say things backwards, etc. I'm already speaking (relatively) slowly and methodically, but I need to minimize that as much as I can.

- Don't forget about getting the Nightmares squared away with their cap chains.

- I often don't call for scouts to broadcast the next site soon enough, which hurts our efficiency a bit.

- I need to figure out if I want to tailor calls to the majority (the 5 Vindis if that's what we have) or default to long-range or how I want to handle that. I want it to be consistent across my fleets, but right now it's random.


These are the only things I can remember at this point. If anyone who ran with me has any other feedback, I'd be grateful for it.
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